I have written an article for my parents. They are somewhat influential in the Org and I am trying to convince them to push for changes to current disfellowshipping policy, not that i hold out too much hope.
Anyway, i would like what i have written checked for accuracy. If anyone has any ideas i have posted the article at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/Page805.htm
Disfellowship article, ideas please
by jwfacts 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
jwfacts
-
Cygnus
I think it's a good article. I think Franz's chapter on DFing was good too. Unfortunately :( I don't think it'll make a difference to the WTS leaders just as Franz's didn't unless the JW populace revolts and starts talking to DF'd ones, like in the late '70s. Even today, many JWs when pressed on the matter say shunning is too strong and even my ex-wife who is a JW talks to me, and not just about 'family business.' My JW parents ignore the rule. So there's hope, but I'd be hard pressed to think the shunning doctrine will be lifted. Althought nothing would please me more.
-
Hellrider
Even today, many JWs when pressed on the matter say shunning is too strong and even my ex-wife who is a JW talks to me, and not just about 'family business.; My JW parents ignore the rule
Yes, I`ve seen that to be the case too. The problem is, that the policy of shunning varies from congregation to congregation, and from family to family, within a congregation. Those JWs that are very sincere in their beliefs, and are actually living the way the WT tells them to, will shun DFd family members. While in others, often "looked up to" JW-families, often with elders, they actually won`t shun a DFd family member. They are often hypocrites, having the perfect front, while having contact with DFed family members in secret. And then the other families, who try to be like the elder-families, shun their DFed family members, in an effort to "be like" the more theocratic and perfect elders family. So, the result is that nice, non-hypocritical, faithful JWs, shun their loved ones, while others don`t. That`s the irony of it.
-
truthsetsonefree
Excellent job. There are some points there I had never considered. Only things I saw were:
- Blood transfusion acceptance has been changed to a disassociating offense. There is no more disfellowshipping for it. Of course with that new announcemennt no one would know the difference.
- Is it really 200,000 annually that get df'd? I thouight it was more like 40,000. I could be wrong though.
-
Flash
The whole article is excellant , you should edit your post to display it. Start a new thread if nessasary.I like your reasoning through out the entire article, it is both sound and sane.
Here is a small example:
Scriptural guidelines on disfellowshipping
There are several key scriptures that form the basis for excommunication or disfellowshipping. A close look at these show that the extreme standard invoked by Witnesses can not be justified. Jesus himself introduced the standard for disfellowshipping: Matthew 18:15-17 15 “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he does not l isten to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector .” Did Jesus say not to ever utter a word to a wrong doer? No, he stated they should be treated as a person of the world. Remember that Jesus himself spoke to tax collectors, but these people would not be considered close friends. Paul expanded on this concept, giving a list of practices that would lead to a brother being shunned. 1Co 5:11 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner , not even eating with such a man. In 1 Corinthians it still does not say to totally avoid a brother who is a wrong doer, rather it says to quit mixing in company with such a person and not eat with such a man. As the Watchtower explains, this scripture only indicates that we are not to socialise with these people as friends. Kingdom Ministry August 2002 p.3 Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped “God’s Word states that we should ‘not even eat with such a man.’ (1 Cor. 5:11) Hence, we also avoid social fellowship with an expelled person. This would rule out joining him in a picnic, party, ball game, or trip to the mall or theater or sitting down to a meal with him either in the home or at a restaurant.” This statement does not mean that this type of person must never be spoken to. If they are at a meeting it would be reasonable to talk to and encourage them. Most certainly a polite greeting is acceptable. Finally Paul and then John gave some stricter advice in regards to a particular type of person. (Romans 16:17) 17 Now I exhort YOU, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that YOU have learned, and avoid them . 2 John 7, 9-11 7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist … 10 If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching , never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him . Paul says to avoid those causing divisions, which would indicate he was referring to apostates. In 2 John it takes a far harder line than that of either Jesus or Paul, stating not to even greet such a person. But what type of person is it referring to? The Antichrist. This type of person should be totally avoided as they can damage a person’s faith. It is only the Antichrist that is stated as the type of person not to even be greeted. The does not include your average sinner. Yet the Watchtower stance is to treat all disfellowshipped wrongdoers in the manner John said was to apply to the Antichrist. The Organisation uses the statement of that single scripture in 2 John and applies it to every single person that does not follow a long list of Society dictated rules. If a witness gambles, smokes, or has a blood transfusion they can be disfellowshipped for life. Every single one of their Witness friends is told not to ever greet them again, unless they repent and return to the Organisation. For a number of my friends even their own mothers have not spoken to them for 20 years. Yet such extreme shunning is only ever stated once, and was only supposed to apply to the Antichrist. -
jwfacts
Thanks everyone, I will post it as a thread when I have updated it.
-
vitty
I heard at an assembly that the figure was 40,000 each year (mostly for fornication) LOL.
-
Ingenuous
Excellent write-up. Thorough and logical.
Some minor spelling/grammar issues:
Since the introduction of disfellowshipping there have been a number of changes in Watchtower doctrine and hence the reasons for being disfellowshipped have also changed back and forth. The practice of smoking did not become an offence until the 1970’s. Vaccinations and Organ transplants were an offence worthy of being disfellowshipped for over a decade, but are now [no]longer viewed as wrong.
Even if we do stretch disfellowshipping to include all the above reasons as listed in the Insight Book we still do not [..] the comprehensive list of reasons for which a Jehovah’s Witness can be disfellowshipped.
Oral and Anal sex.
These practices were common in bible times and yet are never touched upon in the bible. Because there is no biblical precedence [precedent] the Watchtower has changed back and forth on whether or not this is a matter for disfellowshipping.
An example of one of these ‘catch all’ concepts is the application of ( a·sel´gei·a) loose conduct. Scholars recognise loose conduct to be centred [centered] on sexual depravity, as shown in Strong’s concordance .
Notice that the Watchtower adds to the standard definition that it includes an attitude of disrespect for authority. Disrespect is said to encompass not agreeing with elders in a committee meeting or disagreeing with the Watchtower Society. Hence, a biblical term generally related to shameless sexual conduct becomes the Watchtower Societies [Society's] justification for disfellowshipping for all manner of conduct, such as speaking to a disfellowshipped person.
3. Speed of process
In the scriptures it makes no mention of a time limit over which the process must take place
in.5. Overly Harsh
A review of the Insight book Volume 1 p.788 Expelling shows that the majority of scriptures that relate to disfellowshipping discuss assisting or reproving the person. For extreme cases, brothers should not be ‘eaten with’ so only extends to social interaction, but it does not say anything about not talking to these at meetings.
Only elders have access to Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock ant [and] to the letters from the Society.
Conclusion.... Over half of the Witness children I grew up [...] are now disfellowshipped, placing extreme strain on their families.... This means less are likely [...] return from a disfellowshipped state.... One of Jesus [Jesus'] greatest commands was to show love, not just to ones [one's] brother, but to ones [one's] neighbour.
It'd be good to see references for the following, which may sound like "apostate" inventions to those who've never seen such things in print:
Any person advocating the worship of Jesus is to be disfellowshipped for idolatry, yet to worship Jesus is still stated in the Watchtower Charter to be the reason the Watchtower Society was formed.
There have been ongoing changes in the rules on disfellowshipping because many of the reasons are not clearly specified in the bible. So how does the Governing Body arrive at these undefined principles? Does the Holy Spirit guide them to examine scripture and arrive at a uniform consensus on what God’s standard is? No. When a new principle is discussed a vote is taken and the majority vote is held. When a situation arises in a congregation that are not clearly specified in the bible and the elders and branch feel unable to deal with it this is also referred to the Governing Body. This also is decided by vote and rarely is the vote unanimous. In a court of law, if a vote is not unanimous a person can not be convicted. This is not the case for a Witness.
6. Family
The bible does not state shunning should extend to immediate family members. The Mosaic Law that demanded killing ones own family members involved in wrong doing was done away with by Jesus and should not be referred to as justification. {It'd be good to list the article that mentions what can only be described as regret that such ones can't be executed. - 11/15/52 p.703}
7. Time to reinstatement
The bible does not discuss how long before reinstatement can take place. It only makes statements such as to avoid ‘a fornicator’. This implies the person to be avoided is practicing the sin. However, the Watchtower Society has introduced the ‘minimum 6 month’ rule of thumb.
8. Baptised without understanding
Since 1985 the second Jehovah’s Witness baptism vow became “(2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?” (Watchtower 1985 June 1 p.30). At baptism a person commits themselves to the Organisation. Few realise that they have committed both their bedroom lives and work choices to the Organisation. Terms such as “ecclesiastical government of Jehovah's Witnesses” are never used in the Watchtower publications that are issued to the public, but are terms used within confidential letters to branches and the elders.
8. Baptised without understanding.... Even elders do not get to know the guidelines for all situations as more difficult situations are discussed in letters specifically to the Branches.
Thoughts:
Blood transfusions
Eating of blood was not given as a prohibition until the Mosaic Law, and as such was done away with by Jesus death.
Some will look to Genesis 9:4,5 as preceeding the Mosaic Law and being binding on all mankind from the time of Noah onward. You may want to address this particular objection.
Birthdays Celebration of birthdays is a simple practice that was common in bible times as the bible mentions two birthday parties. To try to explain to a non Witness why birthday parties are wrong is very difficult as the bible makes no comment as to whether these celebrations are wrong or not.
I've always wondered why it is OK for JWs to celebrate anniversaries (said to be OK because it's "an institution originated by Jehovah") but not OK to celebrate birthdays (given that life was "originated by Jehovah" as well).
-
Forscher
I think its pretty good as well. Ingenuous did a good job in his critique. I think his suggestion on the Noahtion prohibition against eating blood is something you might want to look at. Even at that, the prohibitions in Genesis and Acts only apply to eating blood. Extending them to blood transfusions is going beyond the scriptures, that is the important point.
Forscher -
jwfacts
Thanks again, Ingenuous that was very thorough.