The pope's cousin is a JW

by loosie 45 Replies latest social current

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat
    Am I reading this wrong?
    A grandfathers children and how many children they have determines if the grandchildren have cousins.

    Nothing in the verbiage makes any sense, don’t be fooled by the formatting and analytical sounding language. Remember that the same bot was arguing not long ago that they couldn’t be related on the basis of the woman’s acquired married name. 🤨

    Also the claim that a Viennese nickname can’t be used in Bavaria is bizarre. Those two regions share a lot of language patterns. Plus people are tremendously inventive and eclectic in language use and always have been, and get their influences from all sorts of places: neighbours, books, the radio, schoolmates who just moved from somewhere else, and so on. The idea that a nickname can’t possibly be used one place because it was also used a couple of hundred miles away is just bizarre and I can’t relate to the so-called logic of it at all. It’s as if it’s not human-based logic at all but some sort of algorithmic generation or hallucination.

    At the end of the day what’s more likely: that and old JW woman happened to be related to the pope or that an old JW woman all of a sudden decided to fabricate her background, memories and false quotes and invited a newspaper to photo her with her convention badge telling him a load of nonsense. I can’t prove which is true, but I know which option makes better sense. Who does aqwebot think made up the story if it’s not true? The woman? The newspaper? The branch? Who and why?

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    Okay, slimboyfat, I've done my research, now it's your turn. Instead of the usual bullying, try to refute me. Here's the family tree of Pope Benedict's mother:

    https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rieger-106

    And this is the email I received yesterday from the parish in Garmisch, informing me about Mrs. Brzakovic's mother:

    hier die Antworten zu Ihren Fragen:
    1. in der Pfarrei St. Martin Garmisch konnte ich im Taufbuch den Eintrag von Katharina Berger, geb. am 20.08.1894 finden. Sie wurde am 21.08.1894 ebenso in Garmisch getauft.
    2. die Eltern waren: Johann Berger und Barbara Bartl (aus Farchant?). Die Großeltern werden im Taufbuch nicht eingetragen. Das erste Taufbuch in Garmisch beginnt ab dem Jahr 1886, daher ist eine Recherche in Garmisch vor dieser Zeit nicht möglich.
    3. andere Einträge zu familiären Verbindungen kann ich aus dem Taufbuch leider nicht entnehmen bzw. sind für mich nicht lesbar.

    According to Mrs. Brzakovic, her mother and Pope Benedict's mother were first cousins, could you explain how that is possible?

    First, the issue is not that nicknames cannot cross borders, but that their use signals cultural and regional embeddedness. In the case of “Pepi,” it's not merely that it exists in Vienna and Bavaria both — it's that in Upper Bavaria, especially rural Traunstein where Joseph Ratzinger was born and raised, “Sepp” or “Sepperl” is and was overwhelmingly standard. Every contemporary Bavarian source – including his living relatives and his own writings – confirms that “Sepp” was how he was known. “Pepi” is not impossible in Bavaria, but it's extremely atypical, and its sudden appearance in one single anecdote, decades after the fact, from someone whose documented geography and genealogy lie nowhere near the Ratzinger family orbit, is conspicuous. In critical historical analysis, it’s exactly these linguistic details that flag a story as unlikely. It's not about algorithms – it's about coherence with the cultural record.

    Second, your rhetorical question — "What’s more likely, that an old JW woman was related to the pope, or that she made up memories and invented quotes?" — ignores the most basic principle of historiography: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It’s not about attacking a person’s character or assuming malice. It’s about plausibility. There is no genealogical link. None. The parish record from Garmisch confirms her mother’s lineage (Berger and Bartl), and those names appear nowhere — not once — in any of the Pope’s documented ancestry going back five generations. This isn’t ambiguous. The burden of proof lies on anyone asserting a family connection to show how it’s possible.

    And no, newspapers get things wrong all the time — especially when given feel-good, unverifiable human-interest material in the wake of global media frenzy like a papal election. A local reporter being told, “I’m the Pope’s cousin” by a cheerful elderly lady doesn’t ring investigative alarm bells when it’s charming and harmless. But repetition in the press doesn’t retroactively create evidence. And yes, people do fabricate stories, sometimes unconsciously or nostalgically, especially if they’re drawn into the glow of attention. This isn’t cynicism; it’s documented human behavior.

    As for the quote — “You Witnesses do the work we should be doing” — yes, of course people from other denominations have said that kind of thing. But that doesn’t make it more likely that the Pope did. That’s the point. It's a known Watchtower trope. The issue is not that the quote is impossible, but that it is suspiciously perfect. It fits a preexisting pattern used for decades in Witness literature to create an “admired outsider” motif. It’s too ideal. And when a quote aligns too cleanly with an in-group’s propaganda narrative, from a single unsourced anecdote, it becomes deeply suspect.

    Finally, the idea that the Pope — a lifelong defender of Catholic orthodoxy, who spent decades theologically opposing the very doctrines JWs reject (the Trinity, sacraments, the primacy of Peter) — would place a personal call to a long-lost cousin and effectively praise their preaching while ignoring the doctrinal chasm between them, without ever making public mention of the call, issuing no private audience, and leaving no trace in Vatican records, defies both logic and protocol. Popes have acknowledged relatives in far more tenuous connections — yet not a word about Brzakovic? The silence isn’t mysterious; it’s telling.

    This isn’t about malice or disdain. It’s about method. The story lacks corroboration, contradicts documented genealogical fact, stretches geography, ignores cultural-linguistic patterns, and reads like a well-meaning myth. The Catholic apologetics doesn’t dismiss personal stories lightly — but it insists they be tested by reason and evidence. This one fails that test.

  • vienne
    vienne

    Americans typically calculate cousin relationships differently than some Europeans and genealogists. There is a useful cousin chart at familysearch.org

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    Based on the available genealogical data, it is highly unlikely that Maria Peintner (Rieger) Ratzinger, the mother of Pope Benedict XVI, could be the first cousin of Katharina Berger, born in Garmisch on August 20, 1894. Here's why:

    🧬 1. First Cousin Relationship Requirements:

    To be first cousins, Maria and Katharina would have to share one set of grandparents, i.e., their parents must be siblings.

    This would require that one of Maria’s parents (either Isidor Rieger or Maria Tauber-Peintner) be the sibling of one of Katharina Berger’s parents (either Johann Berger or Barbara Bartl).

    🔍 2. Known Lineages Do Not Support This

    Maria Peintner (Rieger) Ratzinger's parents:

    • Father: Isidor Rieger (1860–1912), son of Johann Reiß and Maria Anna Rieger
    • Mother: Maria Tauber-Peintner (1855–1930), daughter of Anton Peintner and Elisabeth Tauber

    Katharina Berger's parents:

    • Father: Johann Berger
    • Mother: Barbara Bartl (possibly from Farchant)

    👉 None of the names of Katharina’s parents match or appear related to the Rieger, Reiß, Peintner, or Tauber families. No genealogical source indicates any sibling relationship between these individuals.

    🗓️ 3. Timing and Location Issues

    • Maria Rieger was born in 1884 in Upper Bavaria (Rosenheim district).
    • Katharina Berger was born in 1894 in Garmisch, about 100 km away.

    While proximity alone doesn’t rule out family ties, no direct evidence links the families by blood or marriage, especially not closely enough for a first cousin relationship.

    🔢 4. Alternate Interpretation Possible

    Sometimes people use the term “cousin” loosely (especially in European contexts) to mean distant cousin, family acquaintance, or even godparent connection. The American understanding of "first cousin" is strictly biological—children of siblings—which makes the claim highly implausible here.

    Conclusion

    Unless concrete documentary evidence (e.g. a birth or marriage record showing a sibling link between the parents) emerges, the idea that Maria Peintner (Rieger) Ratzinger and Katharina Berger were first cousins is not credible based on current known genealogical records.

  • +
    +

    Eine in Australien lebende Verwandte des Papstes ist Zeugin Jehovas. Die 81-jährige Steffie Brzakovic ist Cousine zweiten Grades von Benedikt XVI. und lebt in Cooma, wenige Kilometer von der Hauptstadt Canberra entfernt.

    https://www.krone.at/107803

    Cousine des Papstes ist Zeugin Jehovas: Ratzingers Verwandte lebt in Australien

    https://www.news.at/news/cousine-papst-zeugin-jehova

    Die katholisch erzogene Steffie B. schloss sich in den 70er-Jahren den Zeugen Jehovas an.

    https://www.bild.de/news/kolumnen/papst-benedikt-xvi-cousine-in-australien-5200960.bild.html



    https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2021/18/195999273_50e1e700-2c06-42eb-9f81-0fe33b7c927b.jpeg


    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjtGj-sCn3jG66sISLkmGYJZSoB_cZ4WkfVb4yIpeq3XOUvA7QHBo58R6n9caYkBUmTcAPMcK_sCivFJGl1XtMM6J3y3EMsM35eqYEL1WREvaHgvCeCgEGLvgmUiOzkfUhj1m1SlONxh1o/s1600/steffie.png

    Cousine schlägt wegen einer Schadenersatzklage gegen das frühere Kirchenoberhaupt das Erbe ab.

    Ratzinger hatte „keinen persönlichen Erben benannt“.

    Der Nachlassverwalter schrieb der Cousine, dass sie die anhängige Zivilklage gegen Ratzinger miterben würde, sie sollte das Erbe antreten.

    Hintergrund ist eine Zivilklage eines Missbrauchsopfers gegen den mutmaßlichen Täter sowie Vertreter der katholischen Kirche. Diese sogenannte Feststellungsklage richtet sich gegen vier Beschuldigte: den Wiederholungstäter Priester H., das Erzbistum und die früheren Erzbischöfe Kardinal Friedrich Wetter und Kardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

    Nach dem Tod des emeritierten Papstes ruht das Verfahren gegen ihn aber, bis klar ist, wer seine Rechtsnachfolge antritt.

    https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/2023-06/joseph-ratzinger-erbe-cousine

  • Earnest
    Earnest

    Thanks for these references, +. It does put a slightly different complexion on things.

    An English translation of the Zeit Online report of 1 June 2023 reads :

    Cousin of Benedict XVI apparently rejects inheritance because of lawsuit

    Not much is known about Benedict XVI's estate – only that a civil lawsuit is part of it. According to a report, a cousin therefore does not want to accept the inheritance.

    According to media reports, a cousin of the late Pope Benedict XVI will not accept the inheritance because of a claim for damages against the former head of the church. This is reported by Correctiv and Bayerischer Rundfunk, citing the cousin's daughter, who represents her mother because of her advanced age.

    According to the daughter, the former private secretary of the late Pope, Georg Gänswein, had written to her mother in April and introduced himself as Ratzinger's "executor". Gänswein had written in the letter, which BR and Correctiv have obtained, that Ratzinger had "not named a personal heir". Therefore, according to the "Vatican-Italian succession regulation, the closest relatives" would come into question as heirs.

    The clergyman wrote to the cousin that she would co-inherit the pending civil lawsuit against Ratzinger if she accepted the inheritance. How high Ratzinger's inheritance is and how many heirs share it, Gänswein reportedly did not write.

    Lawsuit against four defendants

    The background is a civil lawsuit by an abuse victim against the alleged perpetrator and representatives of the Catholic Church. This so-called declaratory action is directed against four defendants: the repeat offender Priest H., the archdiocese and the former archbishops Cardinal Friedrich Wetter and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

    After the death of the Pope Emeritus, however, the proceedings against him are suspended until it is clear who will succeed him. The Traunstein Regional Court had postponed a first hearing date in March because no heirs of Ratzinger had been identified by then.

  • +
    +

    Wobei die Cousine die Zeugin Jehovas war, 2013 verstarb (siehe das Foto mit dem Grabstein).

    Der echte Papst (Ratzinger) verstarb 2020.

  • HereIam60
    HereIam60

    I guess my 'wake up call' here is to be more observant of what I'm reading...did not see at first this thread was started 20 years ago!

    I have , in the past , heard householders say they "admire" what the witnesses were doing (the preaching) so it's not totally impossible that he made some complimentary remark. I just question it as it was stated in the quoted article.

    Erroneous and mistaken things are often published. Years ago a sweet elderly sister in the congregation was approaching her 100th birthday. She was interviewed for the local paper. The reporter asked her for her memories regarding certain historical events. He asked if she remembered the sinking of the Titanic. She said something like 'Oh yes, that was a terrible tragedy. So many people couldn't be saved..". When printed, the article said she was a Titanic survivor. I said excitedly to an elder "I didn't know Jessie had been on the Titanic!!" He said "She wasn't. The reporter misunderstood what she said.."

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I totally agree with the bot that newspapers get things wrong all the time. They habitually get names, dates, locations, sequences of events, and other important details wildly wrong. I’ve seen newspapers and broadcast media do this many times and assume it’s ubiquitous. What newspapers don’t usually do, and would be somewhat harder to mess up is, say, present a photo of a JW claiming to be the pope’s cousin complete with her JW convention badge on, when instead she’s actually a Mormon who fell down a hole in the street and is suing for lifelong impairment, for example. I mean I wouldn’t totally put it past some newspapers to be as wrong as that, but they are usually wrong on the details rather than the entire framing.

  • +
    +

    Entschuldigt, wenn ich mich nochmal auf Deutsch melde.

    Aber wenn mein letztes "Zeugen-Jehovas-Posting" über die Cousine vom Papst war, hole ich einen Strick und erschieße mich.

    (Meine Zeugen Jehovas Foren auf Deutsch haben längst alle ihre Tore geschlossen).

    Aber eines muss ich dann doch kommentieren.

    …by 1930s roads…

    Schon in der Römerzeit war Deutschland dicht mit einem hochwertigen Straßennetz erschlossen.

    Bereits 1908 war in Deutschland von Autobahnen die Rede.

    Die heutige A115 wurde bereits 1921 geteert benutzt.

    1922 wurde die Berliner Schnellstraße Autobahn genannt.

    1924 berichtete die Presse über das Projekt einer Kölner Autobahn.

    1927 war der begriff Autobahn in Deutschland geläufig.

    Am 30. Januar 1933, mit der Ernennung Hitlers zum Reichskanzler begann eine Ära, in der den Plänen zum Bau einer Nur-Autostraße eine neue Bedeutung zukam. Hof hatte sich bei Adenauer ausführlich über dessen Autobahnprojekt Köln–Bonn unterrichten lassen und schlug Hitler im April 1933 ein Autobahnprojekt für ganz Deutschland vor.

    Ohne ein bereits existierenden dichtes Infrastrukturnetz wäre ein Blitzkrieg von Deutschland ausgehend nicht möglich gewesen.

    Bereits im Jahr 1906 gab es rund 10.000 Autos in Deutschland.

    Im Jahr 1930 gab es 279.000 PKW in Deutschland.

    Die Traunsteiner Verwandten hätten jedes Wochenende zum Besuch bei den Weilheimer Verwandten vorbeikommen können.

    Mit einem Kraftwerk Schlusskommentar kann ich eher leben:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-G28iyPtz0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLoqr70JvVU

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