144000 and counting

joelbear

Neo's thread on the neophyte GB members brought up a thought that I've had for a long time. The 144000 were supposed to be the first 144000 who became christians. Peter baptized 3000 in one day in the first century. Millions of Christians died because of their faith in the Roman coliseum. Its been 2000 years, that means that only 72 people would be chosen a year if it strung out over the whole 2000 years. Also, if you look at yearbook numbers, at one time there were nearly 40,000 annointed in the 1930s and there are still 8000 70 years later.

zugzwang

Watchtower is just like the Bush administration, they don't like dealing with facts.

jaffacake

Doesn't the Bible say something about the faithful martyrs going to heaven? Conservative estimates (inc those of early watchtowers) of martyrs alone put the first century number in excess of 140,000. Most scholars believe it was at least 250,000 in early in Christian history.

It was difficult to explain these numbers in the 1920s, but they got away with it because Armageddon was imminent. The numbers are just plain ridiculous now. I read something about 9,000 anointed in the early eighties, and remarkably it is still allegedly as high as about 8,600 now. Although my JW friend says they speculate that the real figure is about 5,000.

This truly is the weakest of all Watchtower doctrines, and the one I am sure they regret more than any other. To change it now to a symbolic 144,000 (astonishingly it is a symbolic twelve times 12,000 that makes up the literal total of 144,000 according to JWs!??) would cause them to lose everything ie the faithful & discreet slave would be the whole congregation as it was prior to 1931. At least they could return to the pre-1931 teaching that the Bible was written to all, and that NT Christianity is offered to all - the new covenant.

kazar

Looks like you folks did your math on this topic. I wish I had been able to add when I was a Witness.

Mary

Conservative estimates (inc those of early watchtowers) of martyrs alone put the first century number in excess of 140,000. Most scholars believe it was at least 250,000 in early in Christian history.

If memory serves, the Writing Department came up with a real bonehead of an 'explanation' for this. Apparently, those quarter of a million early Christians who all died for their faith never made it to heaven because there was no real proof that were really 'true Christians'. Presumably, that means that they never turned in a Field Service Report before they were devoured by lions in the arenas.

It's just utterly disgusting how these beardless, ball-less morons sitting down in Patterson with their 3-piece suits can desecrate the memory of what these early Christians suffered, because it might threaten their own position..............I know of know other religious group on earth that craps on their predecessors like the Governing Body does.

I quit!

Also, if you look at yearbook numbers, at one time there were nearly 40,000 annointed in the 1930s

Weren't there more than 40,000 witnesses in the 1930s and wouldn't they all have been considered annointed before the we're special and your not announcement came out in 33 or 35 or whenever it was.

Nathan Natas

Year # of Memorial Partakers

1935..... 52465
1936..... 24850
1937 ?
1938..... 39225
1939 ?
1940..... 27711
1941 ?
1942 ?
1943 ?
1944 ?
1945..... 22328
1946 ?
1947 ?
1948 ?
1949..... 24312
1950..... 22723
1951..... 21619
1952..... 20221
1953..... 19183
1954..... 17884
1955..... 16815
1956..... 16302
1957..... 15628
1958..... 15037
1959..... 14511
1960..... 13911
1961..... 13284
1962..... 12714
1963..... 12292
1964..... 11953
1965..... 11550
1966..... 11266
1967..... 10981
1968..... 10619
1969..... 10368
1970..... 10500
1971..... 10384
1972..... 10350
1973..... 10523
1974..... 10723
1975..... 10550
1976..... 10187
1977..... 10080
1978..... 9762
1979..... 9727
1980..... 9564
1981..... 9601
1982..... 9529
1983..... 9292
1984..... 9081
1985..... 9051
1986..... 8927
1987..... 8808
1988..... 8685
1989..... 8734
1990..... 8869
1991..... 8850
1992..... 8683
1993..... 8693
1994..... 8617
1995..... 8645
1996..... 8757
1997..... 8795
1998..... 8756
1999..... 8755
2000..... 8661
2001..... 8730
2002..... 8760
2003..... 8565
2004..... 8570

2005 ?

If anyone can help fill in the blanks, it would be appreciated.

heathen

I think it's obvious that even the bible says many of those converts in the first century were not faithful and true . Apparently you could be rejected just for being luke warm with the love as jesus mentioned in revelation . I believe the number is literal yet everything else about the prophesy is symbolic . The WTBTS does like to put it's own spin on things tho. It is clear that the 12 gates of heaven have the 12 tribal names listed yet they are not all the same as the original 12 tribes of Israel . The great crowd is shown as having come off victorious against the beast and enter the city through the court yard thus they never die where as the "saints" are resurrected as spirits and enter the city through the pearl gates . I think it says something like happy are those that enter the city by it's gates because the second death has no authority over them at all .

mkr32208

Millions of Christians died because of their faith in the Roman coliseum

Ummm maybe not MILLIONS!

heathen

Yah I doubt millions . 10's of thousands maybe. I think only those that died as martyrs , stipulated in revelation , qualify anyway . I also don't think women are in the 144k number .Boy did the ole congregation organize some persecution after I said that . what a bunch of jerks .

144000 and counting

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