"Conscience" matters

Lady Lee

So just how things does the WTS call a matter of conscience and in the next breath condemn.

As far back as I can recall JWs were told that certain things were conscience matters. They they would go into some long detailed description of instances in the Bible where such-and-such a practice was condemned. They would add in stories of how things went terribly wrong when some people actually did the suspect action

OK this would be easier with an example.

Years ago after my last baby I had my tubes tied. At the time the elders said it was a conscience matter and then pulled all this crap about it being a mutilation and not honoring the wondrous gift of procreation. yada yada yada

We wound up having this big to-do about how scriptural it was. In the end it was determined that due to MY medical problems we wouldn't be reproved for it.

How many other things are like that.

Yes it is a conscience matter but if you do it you will be sinning. And most likely reproved.

defd

Lady lee, I am a witness an to be honest with you I feel EVERYTHING is a conscience matter, when it comes to our service to God and discipleship of Jesus. It is up to us as individuals to TRAIN our conscience right so we make right choices.

Lady Lee

DFed If there is a man-made penalty for doing it then it isn't a conscience matter any more

Scully

The Bible - at least in the Greek Scriptures/New Testament - make it clear that the Christian is FREE of the restrictions of the Mosaic Law (Old Covenant). Yet the WTS continually refers to examples from the Jews under the Old Covenant to make things appear "wrong".

For example: birthdays. They were celebrated by "pagans". They were usually in honour of someone in power (Pharaoh or Herod). Someone ended up dead.

The apostle Paul though, made it clear that whether someone gave a certain importance to particular days or saw all days as the same, it made no difference to the Christian. In the same passage, he said it was the person "having weaknesses in [his] faith" that would be the stickler for following rules and regulations and judging or trying to impose his own conscience on the decision making of other people.

Welcome the [man] having weaknesses in [his] faith, but not to make decisions on inward questionings. 2 One [man] has faith to eat everything, but the [man] who is weak eats vegetables. 3 Let the one eating not look down on the one not eating, and let the one not eating judge the one eating, for God has welcomed that one. 4 Who are you to judge the house servant of another? To his own master he will be made to stand, for Jehovah can make him stand. 5 One man judges one day as above another; another [man] judges one day as all others; let each [man] be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day observes it to Jehovah. Also, he who eats, eats to Jehovah, for he gives thanks to God; and he who does not eat does not eat to Jehovah, and yet gives thanks to God. 7 None of us, in fact, lives with regard to himself only, and no one dies with regard to himself only; 8 for both if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. Therefore if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah. 9 And to this end Christ died and came to life again, that he might be Lord over both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of God; 11 for it is written: " ' As I live,' says Jehovah, 'to me every knee will bend down, and every tongue will make open acknowledgement to God.' " 12 So, then, each of us will render an account for himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not be judging one another any longer, but rather make this your decision, not to put before a brother a stumbling block or cause for tripping.

The legalism of the WTS, the unbending rules and regulations, both written and unwritten, the judging of people for made up "sins" (like the length of someone's hair, having a beard, the length of a skirt, having a 2-door car) is nothing more than a form of modern-day Judaism. Christians are not supposed to have "checklists" that can determine their standing before God, but JWs LIVE for that mentality.

AK - Jeff

Good points, Scully!

The legalistic imperialism of the Watchtower religion makes conscience null and void, doesn't it?

Good example is the matter of beards on mature brothers. It is seemingly a matter of conscience, if u read the watchtower articles, but in practice it is a sinful practice. When was the last time you saw a brother with a beard even doing something as mundane as handling the mike's? God forbid that he would ever be allowed to actually give a talk on the CA, or dip someone in the baptismal pool.

If there is a ; man-made penalty for doing it then it isn't a conscience matter any more

Spot on, LL !

When we were in, and having to determine how to deal with our DF'd daughter [she was adult by this time] we read all the articles the org had issued on this matter, read the actual scriptures, identified the actual matters we had to deal with, and how our role as parents and Christians would affect her, our relationship with God, and others. Our conscience came down on one side, and the elders [who by the way didn't even bother to read the 80 or so watchtower articles that I had cut and pasted to a digital format for them to read] did not even bother to research the matter at all - just condemned us as wrong.

Bottom line is that a legalistic society has no real need for conscience. Free society does.

Jeff

Honesty

Everything is a 'conscience matter'... if you are the Governing Body or on the WT board of attorneys and want to use the UN facilities..

But let one of the R & F join the YMCA to use the facilities and they'll no longer be a JW.

Lady Lee

great points scully and Jeff

It seems they pull that "conscience" matter out for the public and the media but heaven help the poor JW who really wants to follow his/her conscience.

According to the WTS "personal conscience" really means WTS directed conscience.

Hellrider

DefD, that`s a very good and intelligent statement. But it`s much more like "regular christianity", and not very JW-like. Just a couple of questions: Have you tried telling this to the elders at your congregation? - or ask if this is an opinion they agree with? And: What exactly do you mean by "train your conscience"? Do you mean that there are certain things that are right/wrong that humans don`t intuitively feel are right or wrong? And if so, which are they?

RubaDub

According to the WTS "personal conscience" really means WTS directed conscience.

Lady Lee said it all ... there are very few real "conscience" matters within the Borg. If a person deviates from an issue that it technically a "consicence" matter, often the person is viewed as not having a properly trained conscience, being weak spiritually.

And of course, there is always the trump card that is played ... "even though it is ok with your conscience, how will it affect others ???"

Real conscience matters are few and far between.

Rub a Dub

jeeprube

Lady lee, I am a witness an to be honest with you I feel EVERYTHING is a conscience matter, when it comes to our service to God and discipleship of Jesus. It is up to us as individuals to TRAIN our conscience right so we make right choices.

Wow what a perfect example of JW "double speak." Training our consciences so we make right choices. Which means programming our minds to make choices approved by the WTS. Which means that nothing is really a conscience matter, everything is to be decided according with WTS teaching and tradition.

They create the illusion of personal freedom and decision, but in reality the control of the WTS is ever present. Just below the surface it lurks.

The dubya is controlled, and does not even realize it. What a perfect scheme, it's facinating to observe it from outside. I can't believe I was controlled for so long.

"Conscience" matters

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