CoC or ISoCF

by TheListener 23 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  dannyboy

  CoC first.
  
  ---Dan
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  AK - Jeff

  I have read them all - they all are good. I think of the three ISoCF would cover more bases. Any witness that was ready to read any of the above would prob do ok with the doctrinal issues discussed there. Solid witnesses will refuse to read any of the above.

  Jeff
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  inquirer

  Read Crisis of Conscience first (maybe you don't need to read ISoCF.) It's quite a moving book. The way it's written makes you like Ray as a person and feel sorry for him for what happened to him putting up with all this tripe for so many years. You'll like reading the book, because he doesn't have any bitterness.
  
  
  In CoC, he attacks main doctrine points only. I agree with fairmind about the conclusions drawn ISoCF. In someways, I'd prefer to have a "mystic" regarding what he feels now about certain doctrines he talks about. But in ISoCF he does tackle important issues like door-to-door work, which, even they seem to be abandoning. I read a post yesterday and someone lived and so-and-so location for 5 years and not once did a JW knock on the door but in other areas they won't stop knocking on the doors -- funny that!
  
  
  Read CoC, for a more dramatic journey of how it affected Ray's life. It's freshly written... only written a couple of years since he left the organization! ISoCF (I know I haven't read all of it yet, but I think 200 pages is quite a lot!) is a man, who is slightly more bitter and has more personal doctrines. But still written in an intelligent, logical Ray style!
  
  In my opinion, CoC, it's one of the best books I have ever read! It's so well-written! It would make a good movie! Another reason why I like it is because he tells what he thinks of other people and tells what they believed and did at the time -- Dan Sydlik, Albert? (I have a bad memory) Schroder, Karl Klien (he's pretty funny this bloke!), Fred Franz, and that guy from New Zealand. It's very interesting the things that were said to good old Ray! It's a living testimony of how difficult it was to deal with these people as a whole. There's more I could say, but I won't spoil it. :)
  
  
  ISoCF is more of a commentary, a lot more of Ray's own viewpoint on things.
• 

  inquirer

  Hey, sorry for going off topic, but it mentioned Crisis of Consicence (as a phrase only) in the Awake magazine twice. Before CoC was typed up by Ray and 10 years after when CF came out.
  

  Awake 1981, p. 30

  'Deafening Silence'

  - In its review of The Terrible Secret, a book based on newly available documents about Hitler's slaughter of the Jews, The Wall Street Journal observed: 'The Vatican, better informed than anyone else by its priests and its faithful throughout Central and Eastern Europe, knew [about the holocaust] beyond a shadow of doubt in the summer, even in the spring, of 1942. Where was the fiery papal encyclical that might have created a crisis of conscience among the Catholics in the German nation and the German army? Pius XII maintained a deafening diplomatic silence while the furnaces continued to work full blast."

  &

  Awake 1996, p. 6

  In 1990 the Spanish bishops announced that a "grave crisis of conscience and morality" was affecting Spanish society. Who did they blame for this 'moral crisis'? The bishops claimed that one of the principal causes was the "ambiguous mentality frequently promoted by the public administration [the Spanish government]." Apparently, the bishops expect the government to promote Catholic ideology as well as provide subsidies.

  I typed in "In Search of Christian Freedom," no results. But when you type in Christian Freedom, you get heaps of results. Here is one example I liked.

  Watchwoter 1992, p. 29

  This was followed by the symposium "Christian Freedom in Our Day." The first speaker discussed "Evaluating Facets of Our Christian Freedom." These include freedom from such false religious teachings as the Trinity, immortality of the human soul, and eternal torment. Then there is freedom from slavish bondage to sin. Though Christians are imperfect, they are free from such bad habits as smoking, gambling, drunkenness, and sexual promiscuity. There is also freedom from hopelessness, for they have the hope of Paradise that impels them to tell others about it.
• 

  in a new york bethel minute

  crisis of conscience was written first, and fulfills a different need than ISOCF... i read both of them in that order and looking back, i would never change the order for me personally because CoC helps you disconnect from the watchtower a little better...

  bethel
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  stillajwexelder

  Crisis of Conscience - it was his first - it is a must read.
• 

  blindersoff

  CoC 1st

  B
• 

  onacruse

  CoC.

  To be perfectfully frank about it:

  Ray is trying, as best he can, to salvage the remnants (no pun intended) of his Christian theology; and his own convictions as being an "anointed" one.

  He's entitled to that, I suppose, as a human being.

  He's also very delusional in those same respects, imo.

  He's also near to death...mortality has a way of taking a toll on a person.

  May he, and his uncle, meet the Maker they have both trusted with their souls.
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Crisis of Conscience. It exposes the WTBTS for the frauds that they are. Ray needs an editor. Reading his books are tedious, because he always states the same thought two or more ways in a sentence. For that reason, I gave up on reading In Search of...
• 

  inquirer

  FlyingHighNow,
  
  Have to disagree! He quite thorough in both books. And it was his last book he did. So it was necessary to be absolutely clear on everything he believed!