Homosexuality at Bethel

Sam the Man

Whilst at London Bethel, I witnessed this first hand. I know that it went on there. Those from Brooklyn Bethel (I understand that there are a few ex Brooklyn Bethelites here), the question I have for you is 'Did you witness/hear of any over your side of the pond?'

ozziepost

'Did you witness/hear of any

Witness any of what?

Sam the Man

Homosexuality!

stevenyc

Sam,

Checkout Lady Lee's Best Of section off the main index. In the personnal experiences, the one from a poster called seven006 should be right up your steet.

steve

Sam the Man

Cheers Steve!

IT Support

Hi Sam,

First, welcome to JWD. May it help you exit the org, if that's what you want to do.

Whilst at London Bethel, I witnessed this first hand. I know that it went on there.

How literally do you mean "at first hand"...??

When I was there in the '70s, there were a couple of lads who were rather 'camp' but I never personally witnessed--or, to be honest, even suspected--any homosexual activity going on.

Ewart Chitty left for Brooklyn after I'd been there a year or so, and though he'd always been civil enough with me, I later heard whisperings among some of the younger lads that he'd been very 'friendly' and invited them for a 'Welcome to Bethel' sauna.

However, I always found his old roommate, Edgar Clay, rather creepy, in a funny sort of old-woman-ish way. Was he still alive when you were there?

Those from Brooklyn Bethel (I understand that there are a few ex Brooklyn Bethelites here), the question I have for you is 'Did you witness/hear of any over your side of the pond?'

Quite a lot has already been mentioned about this on old posts. You might want to try searching through the archives using Google Search.

Hope you stick around.

Lady Lee

I just started reading "The Four Presidents od the Watch Tower Society"

It seems the rumors about Franz, Knorr, and others on the GB were rampant.

The author of the book discounts the rumors. However, he states the following:

pg 35-36

Did both men harbor feelings of sexuality? Fueling this thought was an odd personality thrait of Knorr. He enjoyed keeping the Bethel Family workers overtime after meals, talking in an obsessive manner about homosexual sins. As Professor M. James Penton, a former fourth-generation Jehovah's Witness, relates in Apocalypse delayed:
Prior to 1976, there were few cases of fornication or adultery [between members of the headquarters staff], but since that date, with more women at Bethel, both have occurred more frequently. Heterosexual offenses have never been seen the serious problem that homosexual ones have been, though. Over the years there have been a number of notorious cases of homosexuality caused, probably, by the society's long-standing near prohibition of the marriage of Bethelites and, also paradoxically, by the fact that the Watch Tower officials, particularly Knorr, often preached about the evils of "men lying with men." In fact, Knorr, who seems to have had a fixation on sexual sins, kept the matters of homosexuality and masterbation so constantly before workers at the Watch Tower headquarters that one is forced to wonder if he did not have homosexual tendencies himself. On one occasion in the 1970's when a male worker was disfellowshipped and expelled from Bethel for pederasty [sexual activity between twp males when one is a minor], the society's third president described his "seductions" in such graphic terms at the Bethel meal table that many present were revolted.
Several former Bethelites interviewed by the author remembered the incident. One said he didn't know how long they were held past mealtime, but it seemed an eternity, and afterward he rushed to the bathroom where he felt like vomiting.
a female member, sitting near the head table and the president, said Knorr's eyes had a glazed look as he went into the most intimate details of the sin. She said she felt like screaming, "Stop it! Stop it! That's enough." But Knorr continued the degrading recitaion. That he enjoyed going into the intimate details was obvious to all.
Also under Knorr, in the late sixties, a most notorious scandal occurred at the Brooklyn world headquarters when a large number of staff memberswere dismissed for homosexuality.

Further on the book states

p. 43

Because franz never married and was often seen in the company of the younger, single Knorr, the inevitable rumors soon emerged of a homosexual relationship between the two men. The author was told by those who knew Knorr that he was too busy for sex, presumably gaining gratification from his deserved reputation as a hard worker and his role as manager of the factory, quite an accomplishment for a high school graduate. It is said Knorr changed the rules of headquarters staff members (thereby permitting his own marriage) in order to remove himself from suspicion in another homosexuak scandal then brewing (mid 1950's) at the world headquarters.
Contributing to the rumors of homosexuality was the closeness of Fred Franz with his intimate friend, Governing Body member Ewart Chitty. Chitty was asked to resign from his position because of homosexual "feelings", amd along with another member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, left the Brooklyn headquarters.

Gretchen956

I have to wonder at the reason for this post. Purient interest? Scandal? Were there gay men at Bethel? Yes. Did they have more opportunities to express that than heterosexuals? Yes, because the WTS made sure there were plenty of other "bachelor" brothers there. I noticed that lots of men that weren't married at a "later" date went to Bethel.

Many of these men have very painful coming out stories. If you think its hard to get out of the WTS when your straight, at least then you can fade. If you are gay and come out you WILL lose your family. Ask me and my brother, we know this first hand. I haven't had my coffee yet this morning, so maybe I'm testy about this. But really, whats the deal, yo?

Sherry

Lady Lee

I guess the deal for me is that these men were forced to live in constant fear. They had to hide from everyone, including those who had to hide from themselves.

A few years ago I got a copy of the book Jim by June Callwood. It is the story of a young man raised as a JW who was DFed and found himself. But it is also the story of how the JWs and his family treated him. Very sad indeed.

Gretchen956

My nephew, like many many gay adolescents, committed suicide rather than "come out" as something he was taught was detestable and lose the only family he knew.

Sherry

Homosexuality at Bethel

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