Mormons/LDS (page 9)

Qcmbr

Right then - I'm feeling militant enough tonight to play:)

wouldn't it be true to say that there are those in and out of the LDS who will reach the highest possible heaven, and those in and out who will not

-absolutely. We'll(lds) still have to do the earthly work for those outside mind you - all teh baptism/sealing/giving priesthood/marrying for eternity etc...

Does Christ limit himself to human structures?

Trick Question. Christ actually set the LDS up, so we believe, so the only question that really counts here is did Jesus Christ physically return to a 14 year old boy and does He now head the church that bears His name? If not the question would be moot for a mormon because He certainly wouldn't be 'in' any LDS structures.

Doesn't this entirely miss the point of baptism? Is it really just a "nice ritual" that you've gotta do at some point because Jesus alluded to it?

No , baptism by authority is essential to inherit the Kingdom of God IMO. I just like the idea that you might care enough about my soul that you'd perhaps want me to leave my faith and share in yours - unless your agreeing with my way of thinking that we're on the same side..? Still comes down to authority for me.

I could hedge my bets but that would probably contravene 'thou shalt have no other God's before me' and guarantee my place with the unholy hotties.

LittleToe

Dave:

No , baptism by authority is essential to inherit the Kingdom of God IMO. I just like the idea that you might care enough about my soul that you'd perhaps want me to leave my faith and share in yours - unless your agreeing with my way of thinking that we're on the same side..? Still comes down to authority for me.

So without an LDS baptism, I won't see the kingdom of heaven??

Further, wouldn't your being baptised by my Minister friend be similar to hedging your bets and thus condemning you to unholy-hottie-ville?

I'm honestly perplexed at the similarities to the JWs.

under74

Yea - you could say a lot of the religions that sprung from that period where cultish but you know what I liked about that period. Th epeople desired to know God, they wanted to go to church and to worship, they spent alot of time caring so fervently about it that they talked, walked and fought the good fight. The UK at the moment is becoming one godless little sod of mud bar the influx of muslims. I know the born agains are doing their best but the honest truth is we are losing our religion and our desire for religion as a culture and a people (blows raspberry at the cheering tetrapod.) I like it when people want to believe, I get the shivers when we collectively turn away.

Well, I tend to look at the time as (although very human) just a means for people to deal with the world transitions taking place. I'm not sure what you mean about the "influx of muslims." Most of the muslims I know aren't godless. Maybe it's not people losing religion but religion losing people.....just a thought.

Joseph Smith and polygamy. I think it was great and I'm gutted that the church wasn't strong enough to keep it up.

I don't know your sense of humor but I'll take this as a joke....still, I'm not sure how JS could be held as a prophet if his lifestyle is considered wrong by most mainstream Mormons.

Anyway, thanks for answering.

Qcmbr

Hi U74 - I was making reference to the Muslims as the most religious in our country (ie the Christians as a whole are losing ground - though individual groups are still thriving.)

The polygamy thing wasn't a joke! I honestly think that for the time it was a great plan and that it is a better answer than society 'allowing' mistresses and affairs. Polygamy is a long term emotional and finacial commitment to several women and children rather than what currently happens a lot around here which is short term commitment to several women and children and the state takes over the financial side of supporting the kids. Yea I'm generalising I know.

The fact that the LDS church caved due to government pressure is to me the single biggest blot on its copy book. I presume though that most here would say polygamy itself was that blot:)

I could afford another wife if she wasn't too picky.

er..that was my humour bit..

OldSoul

Qcmbr,

I'm missing the full import of what your saying here.

I agree! And how refreshing it was to read that.

There is definately a structure in the NT.

No disputing it. There is structure. Evident throughout the Greek Scriptures. However, there is no inherent basis for a claim of authority simply because of the existence of structure. Is there?

Key to my point is Jesus continual assertion that the sheep were his. Well, what authority does a shepherd have over sheep that aren't his? None.

If the shepherds are shepherding someone else's sheep, and they themsleves are also sheep, then the authority belongs to the owner (Christ) and the shepherds have no authority over the sheep. Any attempt to exercise illegitimate authority over fellow sheep amounts to beating one's fellow slaves.

In my opinion. But, I am sure I can post dozens of Scriptures, in context, that demonstrate this very thing.

Respectfully,
OldSoul

under74

Thanks for the honest answering Q.

Hi U74 - I was making reference to the Muslims as the most religious in our country (ie the Christians as a whole are losing ground - though individual groups are still thriving.)

Thanks for clarifying.

The polygamy thing wasn't a joke! I honestly think that for the time it was a great plan and that it is a better answer than society 'allowing' mistresses and affairs. Polygamy is a long term emotional and finacial commitment to several women and children rather than what currently happens a lot around here which is short term commitment to several women and children and the state takes over the financial side of supporting the kids. Yea I'm generalising I know. The fact that the LDS church caved due to government pressure is to me the single biggest blot on its copy book. I presume though that most here would say polygamy itself was that blot:)

Hmmm...I think what you're forgetting is that women have affairs too. Not all women are satisfied with one man. Don't get me wrong though I think if adults are consenting the government shouldn't intervene...and I'm not religious. I'd like to have 4 husbands (that I could divorce at any time). One to make money, another to keep house, a third to look pretty for me and the fourth just to keep me laughing My problem with polygamy is that it doesn't go both ways and also in the US FLDS and other fundie Mormon off shoots they don't have consent. Females are property and if a 13 year old girl is told to marry her uncle...that's what she's supposed to do. If a husband is pushed out of the group and told they are now the wife of so and so...that's what goes. Also, the amount of young men being pushed out of these mormon groups because they are competition to older men is astonishing and heartbreaking. From what I know (from a mormon cousin and some reading) the amount of wives you have gets you closer to the top level of heaven...is that true?

Qcmbr

U74 - to be honest I don't know what the different fundamentalist groups preach. In all seriousness I think polygamy would be an extremelly hard law to live. I love my wife and its a whole alien mindset to think of loving another wife equally. I guess affairs etc.. often happen for excitements sake or when love is dying in one relationship so maybe its unfair of me to compare pol. with playing the field.

I think polygamy is like every other religious practise, once it goes beyond its intended purpose it gets pretty cr*ppy. I think men marrying teenagers is a big nono and the stuff you are describing is fairlt reprehensible to my westernised 2006 eyes and thinking patterns. Maybe its a good thing the LDS chose to remove themselves from that divine law.

under74

Thanks for the honesty Q.

Mormons/LDS

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