When believers attack! (page 2)

RunningMan

I found a very similar thought in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert Pirsig. I liked it so much, that I copied it down and have had numerous opportunities to pass it on.

"You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They know it's going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kind of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas and goals are in doubt."

daystar

kid-A

I know just what you mean. There are the rare theists I've met who are not like this. I respect them greatly for it. It takes a certain amount of humility to accept that while you may desire to believe a certain thing, and may even have a certain amount of evidence, you may ultimately be wrong (since that is most often highly desirous in this realm).

LittleToe

Religion and Politics - gotta luv 'em

Rayvin

I would think that no matter what you are talking about..if you tell someone that what they have believed all this time is wrong you may deal with thier harsh reaction.

Telling someone " Btw.. 20 yrs ago I adopted you" would get a violent reaction as well. You rock someones world with info they may not be ready to hear or handle.

When my ex-husband starting telling me about holidays ( he was non-jw) and how Jw logic was silly since you can trace pagen origin to almost everything ..etc. I yelled at him and ran to my closet and sat holding my knees rocking back and forth. I felt crazy! I figured he must be evil and trying to lure me away from the "truth".

Then I started hearing the same information from other people and started thinking.. "What if they are right?"

Ingenuous

I can see how I myself was predisposed to such reactions when I was "in". I believe most JWs are trained to constantly be on the defensive - constantly analyzing everything said to them, reading materials with the assumption that there is something threatening hidden. When I was a JW, I couldn't read anything even remotely religious without a knot of anxiety in my stomach. I couldn't just listen to someone without putting part of my attention on formulating an objection to what they were saying. I couldn't allow that someone might be "good" if they weren't JWs - there had to be some hidden badness in their hearts.

A faulty belief system can engender paranoia. The doctrines of JWs teach this paranoia as part of the system under the guise of "protecting" one's self spiritually and "always being ready to give an answer". What this really means is adopting a number of cognitive distortions (e.g., all-or-nothing thinking, catastrophising, "shoulds", etc.). Only later, if the person begins thinking independently, does cognitive dissonance and other methods of coping with "knowing without really knowing" kick in. The paranoia can be especially vicious when one adds in much sacrific and many years of personal investment. "Defending" one's belief system can feel like defending one's physical existence.

tetrapod.sapien

daystar,

nice quote, i love it!

What sort of strength and courage might it take to accept such a possibility? What would such a person be like?

a lot of strength and courage. a type of positive strength and courage that usually comes from already thinking deep inside, that this is most likely all there is to it.

a person like this? there are a lot on this board already. it's the reason we are here.

i find a few believers have pretty good reasons for believing, but a lot of other "believers" have taken on another religious belief system because they are not aware that the same things that killed jehovah and the WTS for them, are the same things that could kill whatever they subscribe to now. it makes me wonder what sort of abuse people have to sustain from a worldview in order to start questioning it.

TS

OldSoul

kid-A: given unequivocal evidence for the existence of a god

kid-A: much solid evidence was presented to them proving the non-existence of god

But, you insist on using physical evidence to prove and disprove. So, in your premise you exclude the possibility of proof of God, because you restrict the means by which such proof can qualify as proof. Conversely, you cannot use physical evidence to disprove the existence of that which is not physical.

That said, if you can use the Scientific Method produce SOLID physical evidence of the non-existence of God, I will be your slave for the rest of my life, and so will my children, and my children's children to the third generation and to the fourth. For, if you can prove a negative without stepping outside the bounds of the Scientific Method in so doing, you would indeed be remarkable.

It is logically impossible to prove the non-existence of something.

Respectfully,
OldSoul

Daunt

I feel that beliefs are protected with hostility not because they fear it not to be real (many folks can not even begin to think their views aren't real), however I feel that when a view is not provable with sufficient real life evidence then a person has to use intangible, more subjective atributes of life (usually emotions) to support that view. When a belief that is not based on reality impacts a person's life dramatically they will put more and more of these intangible, subjective, emotions and different other things (logically fallacies anyone?) to support this claim even more.

Just my thoughts on it.

Not that the person thinks it maybe not true but more because the person can not base it with anything of substance. Emotions, individual gain, and many other things along those lines can only go so far. Facts and proof keeps us in check.

JamesThomas

Here, is a short and excellent article that has been posted on this forum many times, and is well worth the reading. It certainly fits in this thread.

j

TheListener

Running Man I loved that quote about the sun coming up and dogmas in doubt.

I'm often told how spiritually uplifiting an encouraging the meetings are and the same about reading the society's literature. I would like to say, and may one day, why do you have to be built up so much? Is your faith so weak in what you are taught that you need to be pumped up each and every day? Do you need to be reminded every day how important Jesus' death was for us? Do you need to be reminded every day how loving and great our creator is? (atheists and evolutionists can ignore this part). No you don't, so what is it you need to be encouraged and upbuild about each and every day? YOUR BELIEF IN THE SOCIETY AND IT'S UNIQUE TEACHINGS. So don't tell me that you're being encouraged and upbuilt toward God every day, because you're not.

Oh well I sish I could say it. But, it would come out as mean and nasty, not kind and loving.

When believers attack!

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