Can any JWs answered this question? (page 4)

OldSoul

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w63 12/1 pp. 733-734 The Gift of Immortality
Although they will enjoy human perfection, they will still be corruptible because they will still be made of flesh that is capable of decaying or of being destroyed by another creature. They will have the power to live indefinitely, but for them to continue living they will have to keep their bodies supplied with food and water. Without these necessities they would waste away. Such is not the case with the few who are made incorruptible by being given the gift of immortality. Their continued existence is not dependent upon outside sources of energy. God has given them the power to be self-sustaining, just as he is. This is one of the factors that contributes to their being superior to the angels. Their superiority is revealed by Paul’s statement to them: “Do you not know that we shall judge angels?”—1 Cor. 6:3.
The angels have the power of an indefinite life, but their life force is not self-sustaining and indestructible. Immortality was never given to them. This is evident from the fact that the resurrected Jesus was the only one of Jehovah’s creatures who possessed it in the days of the apostle Paul, although angels had been living for a very long time before then.

Gee, Schizm, I have known this one since I was eight years old. I'm disappointed. You did say since 1960, right ? I wonder if you'll come back with "since 1970" next. Gotta love that ever-changing light, eh?

OldSoul

Just in case...

it-1 pp. 1197-1198 IncorruptionUnited with Jesus in the likeness of his resurrection, his joint heirs also are resurrected not merely to everlasting life as spirit creatures but to immortality and incorruption. Having lived, served faithfully, and died in corruptible human bodies, they now receive incorruptible spirit bodies, as Paul clearly states at 1 Corinthians 15:42-54. Immortality therefore evidently refers to the quality of the life they enjoy, its endlessness and indestructibility, whereas incorruption apparently relates to the organism or body that God gives them, one that is inherently beyond decay, ruin, or destruction. It therefore appears that God grants them the power to be self-sustaining, not dependent upon outside sources of energy as are his other creatures, fleshly and spirit. This is a stirring evidence of God’s confidence in them. Such independent and indestructible existence, however, does not remove them from God’s control; and they, like their Head Christ Jesus, continue subject to their Father’s will and directions.—1Co 15:23-28; see IMMORTALITY; SOUL.

OldSoul

Schizm: In all my years of association with the WTS I've never heard or read of that in the publications.

Well, at least he can't make that claim anymore! One down, how many thousands to go...

Erich

Hi Tyre:

The answer is simple:

JHWH used the so-called "majesty plural" - in Latin called "pluralis majestaticus".

This is no hidden hint to any type of "trinity" or hint that any angle or archangle was involved.

Th "majesty plural" is often used in a speech of a pope or regent or king etc.

E.

Schizm

Old Soul,

Thank you for being "Johnny-On-The-Spot" with those quotes from the WTS's publications.

Immortality therefore evidently refers to the quality of the life they enjoy, its endlessness and indestructibility, whereas incorruption apparently relates to the organism or body that God gives them, one that is inherently beyond decay, ruin, or destruction. It therefore appears that God grants them the power to be self-sustaining, not dependent upon outside sources of energy as are his other creatures, fleshly and spirit.

It's quite obvious to me that the WTS has a number of refinements to make, which, unlike many who post here, doesn't actually bother me all that much. And why doesn't it bother me that the WTS is mistaken in some areas? It's because the Scriptures themselves speak of this very thing at Daniel 11:35. That text states quite plainly that just prior to the time of the end beginning there would be some with "insight" who would stumble over misconceived ideas, and as a result of them stumbling such ideas would be discarded, thereby leaving the congregation "refined".

To list a few things that need refinement:

The "time of the end" hasn't yet begun.
Jesus' "presence" did not take place in 1914.
The "appointed times of the nations" did not run out in 1914.
The 8th King hasn't arrived yet.
The 7th King is NOT a "dual world power" (the US & Britain). All present-day governments make up the 7th King.
The last horn that arises on the 4th beast of Daniel 7 is not the 7th King, as thought. It's the 8th King instead.
"Immortality" is not what the WTS understands it to be.

According to Daniel 11:35 ALL of the above, and more, will eventually be dealt with. According to that same verse, after the refinements are made then the real time of the end will get underway. Will YOU recognize it as a fulfillment of that prophecy? Or, will you merely be saying: "Just some more of their 'everchanging light.'"?

It should be noted that Daniel 11:35 does in fact acknowledge that error would exist and have to be dealt with amongst those who are sincere in trying to do God's will.

.

OldSoul

Which means you are a schism among Jehovah's Witnesses. Basically, if you were to publicize that those refinements that "need to be made" (whether on the basis of Daniel 11:35 or not) you would be disfellowshipped as an apostate, if you aren't already.

Additionally, Daniel 11:35 doesn't say anything about the refining work and stumbling being "just prior" to, there is nothing in the text to indicate that it would not start when the apostasy starts and end at the time of the end. It only says some will be made to stumble "until," it doesn't say "just prior."

Respectfully,
OldSoul

Schizm

Additionally, Daniel 11:35 doesn't say anything about the refining work and stumbling being "just prior" to [the time of the end]... It only says some will be made to stumble "until," it doesn't say "just prior."

No, it says that the "refining work" will take place up "until the time of the end" commences.

35 And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and to do a whitening, until the time of the end; because it is yet for the time appointed.

It's quite obvious, then, that the refinement spoken about will have been accomplished just prior to the beginning of the "time of the end". Note: "to do a refining work ... until the time of the end".

There's no getting around it, the time of the end will not begin before the foretold refinements take place first.

Make what you wish out of the verse, but that's what it says in my opinion.

.

Cygnus

Re: "immortality"

The Watchtower goes by their interpretation of the Bible's use of the terms, not the dictionary's. Adam and Eve, angels, and resurrected humans all were/are/will be, so they say, deathless, but not immortal. Only Jehovah, Jesus and the 144,000 will ever be immortal. To be "incorruptible" means more than deathlessness, it means "cannot be destroyed." This is a subtle doctrine kind of just taken for granted these days, but back when Russell and the Rutherford made such a big deal out of disproving the immortal soul doctrine, they'd spend entire chapters explaining this stuff. Now you're lucky to find a couple of paragraphs, besides the quote someone was nice enough to dig out of the Insight volume, in the last 40 years of books and magazines that does more than tough on the subject.

OldSoul

the time of the end will not begin before the foretold refinements take place first.

They will end just prior. But nothing says that they start just prior. We could be in the middle of the refinement process and have another 2000 years ahead of us. We could be at the beginning and have another 20,000 years. We could be well past the end, according to the Preterist viewpoint.

OldSoul

Schizm

We could be in the middle of the refinement process and have another 2000 years ahead of us.

LMAO!

We could be at the beginning and have another 20,000 years.

Really LMAO!

.

Can any JWs answered this question?

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