Adam /Jesus,where is the balance?

by Blueblades 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • Blueblades
    Blueblades

    When Adam sinned, as the story goes,Punishment was immediate Out of the Garden! Quickly! Driven!

    When Jesus died sinless, as the story goes, reward is still waiting for mankind, 2,000 yrs and continuing.Why was the reward not immediate? Where is the balance?

    Of cause, one would have to believe the story then explain it logically and reasonably or not being able to, take that leap of faith and keep waiting and waiting and waiting. Even so ,for those who believe it, please answer this question, where is the balance of immediate punishment and immediate reward? I'm talking about all creation not an individual reward. All creation was included in that punishment meted out to Adam.

    Blueblades

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    Blueblades, I have asked myself the same question dozens of times.

    God was extremely quick in meting out punishment to the original three, but timelessly slow to give us a refund for the misery humankind has suffered for the past 6,030 years (assuming a start date of 4026 B.C.)

    In theory, Jesus' death should have ushered in a new world.

    Was it Peter who said that there would be new heavens and a new earth?

    Revelation decreed that the "tent of God is with all mankind", "no more tears."

    Yet, what do we see today? Death by the millions.

    While it's true that humankind has caused the mess we're in, God did create us, he does have some responsibility - otherwise, why did Jesus die for us in the fist place?

    What good is it if my sins are forgiven on the basis of Jesus' name, but I die anyway?

    There is an old saying.

    We are born crying

    We live miserably

    And we die disappointed.

  • Gary1914
    Gary1914

    I was just thinking the other day that after God made all of his creations, he looked and saw that everything was fine. Except one thing. He did not like the fact that Adam was alone and so he created Eve. I wonder if that means anything?

  • gumby
    gumby
    Why was the reward not immediate? Where is the balance?

    Hi Blueblades. Looking at this from a biblical perspective............

    If the reward was immediate ( 2000 years ago) ....could the rest of what the bible said would take place after Jesus death have been fullfilled? Could say....Daniels prophecies concerning the end of times been fullfilled? Could the things mentioned in Revelations been fullfilled that John saw in the future?

    About balance........if Jesus eventually ends the effects of mans fall, can't it be said he balanced it out? Does the' timing' of punishment vs. reward, serve as a barometer as to what 'balance' means?

    Gumby

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Just go ahead and tie our brains in knots, Gums.

  • bebu
    bebu

    My thoughts...

    • That spiritual separation from God came immediately, though physical death came later.
    • That life thru the HS has been granted immediately after Christ's resurrection. And that life (zoe) is of greater quality than physical life (bios).

    Jesus said we would live even though we died. He gave us something eternal, that is, his Spirit, that can overcome physical death. So, physical death no longer has the sting it had before; it was turned into a door, not a destiny.

    bebu

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Don't forget that the whole idea of "balance" (Adam--------v--------Jesus), attractive as it may be to shallow minds, is completely unscriptural. Just as the WT concept of "perfection".

    This being said, in the NT salvation is always thought of as a combination of present and future -- in different proportions according to the texts.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    It's already been said, but the idea of balancing scales of justice is very JW.

    One theory is this:

    • Adam lost his spiritual life on the spot, and death came many hundreds of years later.
    • Christ bought spiritual life on the spot, so while the body may yet pass away, spiritual life is revived

    On the subject of scale of injury and remuneration; not only have we Adamic sin but all the mistakes and misdemeanors that we all make. A perfect human life might have been enough to counter the original sin, but what about the mass of sins that we have all committed subsequently? How are those paid for if Christ is merely a perfect man?

    I suspect these were the kind of issues being confronted by the fledgling first-century Christian "faith".

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    The WT "balance" doctrine implies that Jesus came to redeem or restore what Adam had lost.

    The Bible texts which are supposed to "back up" this doctrine are the following:

    (1) 1 Corinthians 15:44ff, in the context of "resurrection":

    It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body. Thus it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
    But it is not the spiritual that is first, but the physical, and then the spiritual. The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. As was the man of dust, so are those who are of the dust; and as is the man of heaven, so are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we will also bear the image of the man of heaven.

    Notice that "sin," or the idea that Adam has "lost" anything, is conspicuously absent from the explanation. What is opposed is the earthly nature of Adam as start/representative of "old/physical" creation, vs. the heavenly nature of Christ as start/representative of a "new/spiritual" creation.

    (2) Romans 5:12, in a more generic context:

    Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned-- sin was indeed in the world before the law, but sin is not reckoned when there is no law. Yet death exercised dominion from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who is a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died through the one man's trespass, much more surely have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abounded for the many.
    And the free gift is not like the effect of the one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brings justification. If, because of the one man's trespass, death exercised dominion through that one, much more surely will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness exercise dominion in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. Therefore just as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man's act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. For just as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

    Here Adam functions, inseparably, as the origin of both mankind and sin/death. And Christ comes, not to restore one without the other (i.e., mankind without sin/death), but to bring about a new kind of life on completely different terms (free gift, grace, righteousness, justification, dominion in life). Paul repeatedly insists on the dissymmetry between Adam and Christ: Christ is not like Adam, and what he brings about is incomparable with what Adam brought about. One point he makes is that Christ's work has as a starting point not one but many trespasses (implying that the "sin" he redeems is not Adam's but ours).

    The WT doctrine which makes Adam and Christ equivalent on the "scales" of divine justice (with the equally unscriptural concept of "perfect man" which has been debunked here a number of times) can only be "based on" such texts because the texts are not actually read.

  • gumby
    gumby

    Nark......you never cease to amaze me. You da man!

    Gumby

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