Why is what JW's believe in bad? what do they believe in?

by vaporize 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • vaporize
    vaporize

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/20/90830/1.ashx

    Hi, im new to this site. I use to believe in JW and i guess i always did but just lost faith and left it for a long time. Im starting to get back into it again because i believe in it. I have surfed around watchtower.org and everything i read there seems all good and true. But when i read some pages in the forums like this one i pasted, i start to get upset at why people whoare Jw's themself start to discriminate things.

    See This person stated that he does not believe in many of the things that JW believes in and he thinks its garbage compared to what christians believe in...well i just want to know exactly what JWs believe in which differs from every other christianity? i know a few i guess like bdays, christmas etc. But i want to know everything..so i can judge for myself. Could someone please help me out coz i gues ive been gettin a lil stressed about it all. I dont see why people are saying RUN RUN RUN from a JW...i dun see whats so bad about being one..but maybe i dont know everything...so please if you can tell me how JW's differ from the rest. Thank you

  • googlemagoogle
    googlemagoogle

    the worst thing is: you are not allowed to use your brain or question anything. if you do, you are in big trouble.

  • heathen
    heathen

    Welcome to the board vaporize . What we do here is mainly debunk WTBTS dogma . If you look around you will find topics and discussion groups . If you just want to know the beliefs you can go to the WTBTS site as you said you've been there .

  • vaporize
    vaporize

    how do you use the search feature on this site? it doesnt seem to work for me..i wanna look up all doctrines...and see why people are losing faith

  • dedpoet
    dedpoet

    Hi vaporize and welcome, nice to meet you.

    You say you have looked at the watchtower site and it all seems good and true. Well, many of us on this board, myself included, thought that way at one time. The core jw beliefs, such as the paradise earth, are attractive, and its not surprising that many are taken in by them. But because something seems to be true does not nescessarily mean that it is true, and I think you need to very carefully examine jw doctrine, using the bible, before you commit yourself again. Don't just blindly accept everything they teach, prove it to yourself first. Read the scriptures they quote to support their beliefs in context, and use another Bible or Bibles apart from the New World Translation, I would suggest the Jerusalem or the New International Version, or a Phillips NT. Take a look at the Watchtower Quotes site as well, and maybe Freeminds. Be thorough in your research, make sure of everything before you commit yourself.

    If you do all that, and still want to be part of the jw religion, then I wish you well.

    Take care

    dedpoet

  • Confession
    Confession

    Vaporize, I'll re-post a rather complete response I once made to another person asking the same question as you. It's a bit long, but it should give you a good idea of the JW belief system. My best to you...

    My family has been involved for four generations and more than sixty years. I myself served as a JW elder. I've only come to recognize that the organization is not what it purports to be for approximately the last seven months.

    As mentioned by another contributor, key to the entire JW belief system is that there exists a "channel of communication" from God to the entire planet. They use the scripture at Matthew 24:45-47 to support the concept. I won't quote a lot of scriptures here, but I will do so with this one--since it's integral to understanding JWs...

    "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings."

    At one time they recognized the founder of the WT Society, Charles Taze Russell, as the Faithful & Discreet Slave. But in time came to believe that it was actually a "class" of Christians. This coincided with their developing belief that only 144,000 from the earth would actually go to heaven, where they would rule as Kings and Priests during Christ's "Thousand Year Reign." They found a scripture that mentioned a "little flock" and "other sheep," and concluded that the little flock was the same as the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation. The upshot? Only a very exclusive (and usually quite elderly) few still living today believe they will go to heaven when they die. The rest have an "earthly hope." And so those who profess to be of that 144,000--and are still presently alive are recognized as part of the Faithful & Discreet Slave class. Supposedly these ones, scattered throughout the earth are those who are dutifully looking after Christ's interests here--but in point of fact, it was always the Society's President--and more recently it's "Governing Body" of men in Brooklyn, New York, who have created and expressed its policies--and have compelled adherents to follow them.

    Also important to understanding JWs is their belief that Armageddon is imminent. While other religious may also believe this, the JWs in particular have set definite dates for this event many times in the past. Originally it was believed to be coming in in the 1870s, but after that time came and went, the year 1914 was settled upon. It too passed by. 1915, 1918, 1925...I may be missing a couple of them, but one-by-one the prophsied years came and went--all, of course, without Armageddon occuring. After such an extraordinary series of failed prophecies, it is almost unbelievable that they AGAIN predicted a date beginning in the mid-60s. 1975 would be it. And that was thirty years ago. Even more unbelievably is how so many JWs continue to hang in there with the organization after such buffoonery. I was one of them. Today, JWs simply believe that Armageddon is "right around the corner." They come up with "new light from Jehovah" whenever they are in a position to re-explain a prophecy that was not realized.

    They do not recognize Christ as Almighty God, but as God's son, who had a pre-human existence, being the first creation of God.

    They do not subscribe to "immortality of the soul," believing instead that when you die, well, you actually die. They do however believe there will be a resurrection of the dead (for those who are not put to death during Armageddon.) Those of the "little flock" of 144,000 "anointed ones" will go to heaven. The "great crowd" of "other sheep" will have the opportunity of everlasting life in a paradise on earth.

    They do not believe in literal torment in hellfire, but that those who refuse to conform to Jehovah's ways after they are resurrected--or those who live right up to the time of Armageddon who are not JWs--will experience the Second Death. This means that they will never receive a resurrection. Dead forever.

    Regarding "modern day society," they have no problem with advancing technology, actually taking advantage of such organizationally, but instead constantly stress the need to have no unnecessary association with those who are not JWs. If they are unbaptized or are not regular meeting attenders, they are "worldly" and "bad association." They also emphasize not getting caught up in "the things of the world." They are warned not to spend time with their computers or television--or any form of recreation--if it might detract with having a "full share" in the door-to-door ministry.

    Regarding "lesbians and gays," they recognize the Bible's comments on homosexuality as evidence that those practicing it will not "inherit God's Kingdom."

    Regarding "various jobs," they have had much to say over the years. A Witness cannot be a Police Officer or be involved in the military. They cannot farm tobacco. As I write this, I find it pointless to keep listing them. The truth is, that the potential for the organization's finding fault with your career or job is limitless.

    Regarding 'strength of belief.' Strong. Very strong. Someone else mentioned "cognitive dissonance." I agree. Many people want to believe in something, and the WT Society does a magnificent job of giving this to people. One of their most impressive feats (in my opinion) is how they've managed to "self-santize." They've done this through disfellowshiping those who do not remain loyal to the organization and begin to speak of it to others--and through demonizing such ones as evil "apotates," not even worthy of being prayed for. To the degree that an organization can keep its flock from finding where the bodies are buried--to the degree that they can keep presenting them with positive images, with purposeful work--to that degree they may be successful in receiving strong loyalty and belief.

    Everlasting life in a paradise on earth... The world is passing away... Don't listen to opposers; they are only trying to mislead you... We love you; listen to us as God's spokesman... If you listen to opposers, you are opening your mind to Satan's "evil slave" and apparently have a weak or wicked heart condition... Oh, and if you DO listen to opposers, we may disfellowship you and brand you an apostate, effectively cutting you off from your entire family and community of friends you've known your whole life... Want to listen to opposers now??? I'm suggesting that the fantastic hope held out--combined with the gruesome penalties for even listening to opposers--does a pretty remarkable job of inspiring loyalty and strong belief.

    You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe, but must accept the whole range of teaching as taught by the WT Society. You may not secretly entertain belief in a doctrine not sanctioned by the organization. Would you drink a glass of water with even a drop of poison in it?

    Yes, a lot of what you've read is very negative. But it's not because of their basic Biblical teachings. It's because of legalism and authoritarianism. It's because they have placed themselves in the position of "conscience" for all their adherents, effectively usurping a person's own Christian conscience. It's because, in their fervor to keep the organization central in the lives of the flock, they are willing to ruin the lives of such ones.

  • diamondblue1974
    diamondblue1974

    Welcome to the forum Vaporize; I hope you find what you are looking for here....

    I am probably not qualified to answer your question in terms of doctrine as its been a while since I was involved with Jehovahs Witnesses and what they believe in but I have found since leaving that what they preach isnt what they practice....on one hand you are taught that you should love your neighbour and then on the other they have a practice of shunning people who fall away...or who might have doubts which the elders cannot answer....that doesnt make sense to me and hardly seems a Christian principle.

    If you consider the social dynamics of a congregation objectively however you can soon cut through the warm fluffy veneer and left remaining is a core of shallowness and fear, a fear they will not admit to because their minds are conditioned into ignoring it and pretending it doesnt exist; on the outside you see the subtle mind control techniques they use to indoctrinate people into believing their version of Christianity and its not hard to see that fear, guilt, and shallowness are fundamentally what is instilled into a Jehovahs Witness at all levels...be careful is my advice...consider everything you are taught objectively...research like you have never researched before but dont and I repeat dont just refer to their publications...get a balanced view on their teachings.

    I know of a website which is fantastic in terms of objective information about Jehovahs Witnesses and what they believe and how things work...its very easy to read and easy to understand...

    http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/bj.htm#PSYCH

    Hope it helps answer some of your questions.

  • Confession
    Confession

    I noticed your wondering why someone would tell you to run from JWs. Here's another former post I made about this subject. My apologies to those who dislike long posts. Please bypass.

    Talking to one of Jehovah's Witnesses? I'm sure he or she is very nice. Most are, in my opinion. I have a great deal of love for many, many Jehovah's Witnesses. In fact more than thirty members of my family are in the organization, since our family has a long history in it for four generations and more than sixty years.

    Why do I love Jehovah's Witnesses? They look forward to a time when the earth will be a paradise and all humans will then live in perfection and happiness. This common hope can inspire love and a special kind of unity. They're not perfect, and you'll see this from time to time, but who is perfect, right?

    As you continue your association with this Jehovah's Witness, there are a few things I'd like you to know.

    1) The Watchtower Society, the official agency in charge of the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, encourages young ones to be baptized quite young; thirteen or fourteen years of age.

    2) While the baptism oaths used to require those getting baptized to acknowledge God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, in 1985 it was changed to require those getting baptized to acknowledge the Watchtower Society as "God's spirit-directed organization."

    3) Being a baptized Jehovah's Witness requires you to recognize as God's sole channel of communication to humans - only those in association with the Watchtower Society. Although they may not mention it at first, they believe that unless you are baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses--and have a full share in their meetings and field service activity--you will die at the soon-to-come Armageddon, along with everyone else on earth who has not done these things.

    4) If you become baptized and later decide you don't necessarily recognize those in association with the Watchtower Society as God's only channel of communication--and admit as much to others--you will almost surely be disfellowshiped and branded a wicked apostate, not even worthy of prayers. This means being shunned and vilified by all those--closest friends, family members, yes even your children--who are Jehovah's Witnesses. You will be identified as one of "The Evil Slave Class."

    5) Trying to reason with the elders, your friends or family members that you are not deserving of such treatment is quite futile. Why? Because any Jehovah's Witness who does not submit to the enforced shunning is himself subject to being disfellowshiped and shunned if anyone finds out. This practice creates an environment in which people are fearful of anything the Watchtower Society has condemned, and in which people are reverse-incentivized to support anything they say.

    6) If these things were to happen to you, during your judicial hearing you will be denied most of the rights generally afforded people in any sort of court. You are not given the right to have someone represent you, nor even the right to have witnesses of your choosing present. There will be no recording nor transcript of the proceedings. While they make sure there are three or more elders present to represent the Watchtower Society's interests, you are allowed no one to represent yours. You have no record of the hearing, no representation, no witnesses of your own; you have no concrete way to demonstrate that you were mistreated or that things weren't handled properly. Only your word (one person) against theirs (three persons.)

    If, like me, you at some point become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, many wonderful things will be placed before you. Lots of literature containing beautiful artist's renderings of life on a paradise earth. Many experiences of how other people all over the world are becoming Jehovah's Witnesses. Frequent public talks that demonstrate how correct the Watchtower Society is in its increasing light regarding God's truth. You will be encouraged to read the Bible--along with publications from the Watchtower Society. And you'll find that "studying the Bible," while quite time-consuming, is not very difficult since it amounts to reading Watchtower publications and answering the accompanying, published questions from those corresponding paragraphs.

    As one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you will frequently be told not to listen to those who disagree with the teachings of the Watchtower Society. They will spend less time teaching you about why these opposers are wrong--and more time simply warning you not to pay attention. Note the following excerpt taken from the Watchtower magazine...

    *** w86 3/15 p. 12 ‘Do Not Be Quickly Shaken From Your Reason’ ***

    Now, what will you do if you are confronted with apostate teaching—subtle reasonings—claiming that what you believe as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is not the truth? For example, what will you do if you receive a letter or some literature, open it, and see right away that it is from an apostate? Will curiosity cause you to read it, just to see what he has to say? You may even reason: ‘It won’t affect me; I’m too strong in the truth. And, besides, if we have the truth, we have nothing to fear. The truth will stand the test.’ In thinking this way, some have fed their minds upon apostate reasoning and have fallen prey to serious questioning and doubt. (Compare James 1:5-8.)

    You may find the logic circular and unsatisfying at first. Consider...

    "This is God’s true organization."

    "If so, why be afraid of hearing out an opposer?"

    "Because they might lead you away from God’s true organization."

    "But what if the opposers are right?"

    "They can’t be right since this is God’s true organization."

    "But shouldn’t such an organization withstand honest-hearted scrutiny?"

    "It’s thinking like that that has led many away from God’s true organization."

    But if you give it time, in the presence of others who have accepted the organization as God's only true channel, you may find it becomes easier and easier to believe as they do. You may come to accept what they have: that there is no truth nor faith in God apart from faith in the Watchtower Society.

    Although nearly all of my family members are Jehovah's Witnesses and although I myself served as an elder in the congregation, I now recognize that the organization is not what it purports to be. While there are many fine and wonderful people within it, there are many false and troubling things too. Things that cannot be excused as the simple shortcomings of imperfect men. They amount to gross deception, evil manipulation and idolatry.

    These things are most difficult to see for those immersed in the culture surrounding the organization, who endeavor to separate themselves from all others, associating almost exclusively with one another. They are things one cannot comprehend without a willingness to give the organization a clear-minded, honest-hearted, objective investigation. Because the Watchtower Society threatens those who dissent with a branding of "apostate" and shunning, there is much fear in one’s conducting such an investigation. The reasoning encouraged by the Watchtower Society requires the dogmatic rejection of any possibility that "what you believe as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is not the truth." I consider this out of harmony with the scriptures.

    (2 Corinthians 13:5) Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. Or do YOU not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with YOU?

    This month I will be 39 years old. I have only come into my present understanding of this organization in the last year. None of my Witness friends or family members--including my seventeen year old daughter--know how I feel. I am presently struggling with the most difficult decision I've ever had to make in my life. Either I voice my position and be considered demonized by my entire family along with the only community of friends I've known my whole life, being shunned as an evil enemy. Or living a lie.

    Unlike the Watchtower Society, I will not tell you to run from what I believe to be wrong. I want you to understand it. Listen to them. Listen closely. But don't ever let them scare you from considering ALL the information. And don't ever let them tell you not to use the mind God gave you--in favor of zombie-like submission to a group of men. Men whose position as God's only channel they preserve by the threat of shunning upon those who dare suggest the emperor may have no clothes.

    I don't know what the coming months hold for me. Please pray for me. I'll be praying for you.

  • avishai
    avishai

    Check out the "best of" section of the site here http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/32/1.ashx.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    I used to be 100% convinced JW's were the only true religion, because I studied the Watchtower endlessly. It was not until I compared it to what other religions believe that I could see the dishonesty and inaccuracies. It is important that people in other religions are just as sincere about finding truth as JW's, and so have a good scriptural reasons for what they believe.

    JW's know Watchtower doctrine very well, unfortunately Watchtower doctrine is quite simple and where it deviates from mainstream Christianity is usually wrong.

    A simple look at the history shows why. Russell had no great religious knowledge, yet started a new religion by pasting together the bits he liked from other religions, something he admited to himself. When Russell died Rutherford discarded many of Russells teachings, calling many Satanic and introduced his own. This shows that Holy Spirit did not direct the religion, it was just the ideas of untrained men.

    In general JW's are well intentioned, but it can be a dangerous religion. Extreme reliance on rules, the hypocritical stand on blood, and the extremely damaging using of disfellowshipping makes being a JW potentially damaging to a person in the long term.

    I have posted some of the changes and some of the inaccuracies that i found with a little bit of research at www.jwfacts.com

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