Posts by ellderwho

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

ellderwho

Undisfellowshipped;

Therefore, a person who has been "enlightened" can willfully choose to deny and reject Jesus and fall away to Hell, but a Born Again Christian can NEVER fall away to Hell and cannot practice sin.

Romans 8:14 for as many as are led by the spirit of God these are sons of God.

8:26 like wise the spirit also helps in our weakness for we do not know what we should pray for as we ought.

8:29 for whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son.

8:30 moreover whom he predestined these he also called; whom he called; these he also justified...

a person who has been "enlightened" can willfully choose

Ro.9:11 For the children not yet being born, nor having any good or evil, but the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of him that calls.

9:13 as it is written Jacob I have loved Esau I have hated.

9:15 for he says to Moses I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy on, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion on

a person who has been "enlightened" can willfully choose

9:16 So it is not of mans desire or effort, but of God who shows mercy,

9:17 scripture says about Pharoah; I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power.
what was Pharoahs' choice?

a person who has been "enlightened" can willfully choose

9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

Ro 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

2Cor 1:9 yes we had the sentence of death in ourselves that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God who raised the dead,

4:6 for it is God who commanded light to shine out of the darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Gal. 1:15 But when it pleased God who seperated me from my mothers womb and called me through his grace.

a person who has been "enlightened" can willfully choose

1:16 to reveal his son in me.

Gal 4:8 But then indeed when you did not know God, you served those who by nature were not gods.

a person who has been "enlightened" can willfully choose

4:9 but now after you have known God or rather are known by God...

5:3 you have been called to liberty, only do not use the liberty as an opportunity for the flesh.

Eph.1:4 just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world.

a person who has been "enlightened" can willfully choose

1:5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to himself..

1:11 In him we also have obtained as inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.

2:1 and you he made alive who were dead in trespass and sins.

2:3 among whom also we all conducted ourselves in the lust of our flesh and in the mind and by nature children of wrath.

2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ.

a person who has been "enlightened" can willfully choose

4:4 there is one body and one spirit just as you were called in one hope of your calling.

Phil.1:6 being confident of this very thing that he who has begun a work in you, will complete it until the day of Christ.

Col 1:26 the mystery which has been hidden from the ages and from generations but now has been revealed to his saints.

1:27 to them God willed to make known them the riches of the glory of this mystery among the gentiles

2:13 and you being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he made you alive together with him.

a person who has been "enlightened" can willfully choose

3:12 therefore as the elect of God holy and beloved put on tender mercies.

1Thes2:12 that you would walk worthy of God who calls you into his own kingdom.

2Thes 2:13 but we are bound to give thanks to God always for you brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the begining chose you for salvation through the sanctification by the spirit.

2:14 to which he called you by our gospel for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord.

a person who has been "enlightened" can willfully choose

2Tim1:8 who has saved us an called us with a holy calling not according to our works but according to his own pleasure.

1:9 this grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.

1:11 and of this gospel I was appointed.

1Pet 1:1 who have been choosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.

a person who has been "enlightened" can willfully choose

1Pet 1:15 but just as he that has clled you.

1Pet 2:9 But you are a choosen people.......'a people belonging to God

1John 2:27 As for you the anointing you received...

Whose choice? ours or Gods??

E

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

ellderwho

if Jesus appeared infront of me and I "exclaimed" my lord and my god...

This is a Jw position as well. This also lends thought to inserting a modern slang response to the context.

Greek: "my kurios, my theos" (without rebuke)

Unfornately I am unaware of the aramaic rendering.

What I find interesting about the whole idea of the trinity is the one burning question.

Why did the Jews want to stone Jesus?

Blashemy, " you a man make yourself equal with God.

E

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

ellderwho

Undisfellowshipped;.

This is the bottom line, as far as I believe:
The Bible says:
* God is absolutely sovereign -- nothing can happen without Him either (1) causing it or (2) allowing it to happen.
* God knows all things -- past, present, and future.

What is really the bottom line?

Will Gods will be done?

You say Gods know all things past, present and future. Have you really thought about this?

Do you realize how far reaching this statement is? Because if you really think it through it would cause you to re-think some of your reasonings for "choice"

What is really the bottom line? You did not choose your birth!

Did Abraham,Moses,or David choose God?

John writes " these men were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jo.1:13

John knew that no Christian ever made the first move toward God.

Abrahams' call came twice, once when he was in Ur of the Chaldess(Acts 7:2-4) and years later when he was in Haran.

Moses,David upon request.

E

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

ellderwho

Herk, you reference A.T. Robertson, I'll have to check the quote.where you say:

"there is a much better explanation for why the "name" is used in the singular"

this is misleading of A.T.Robertson. You are suggesting that this is his point. Robertson simply says the "name" means authority indicates nothing about singularity. This is you putting words in Robertsons' mouth. Your logic clashes with with your statements earlier.

Herk; but the plural members of the Trinity are said to be One Being or Godhead.

First you said that its referred to in the plural, then you refer to it in the singular. Which way do you want it?

There is a much better explanation for why ?name? is used in the singular. A.T. Robertson, in his Word Pictures of the New Testament, points out that the use of "in the name" here means "by the authority." There are many examples of this meaning. Deuteronomy 18:5, 7, speaks of serving in the ?name? (or, by the authority) of the Lord.

I also would like to reference A.T. Robertson; Matthew 28:19 ;

Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament
All the nations (panta ta eqnh). Not just the Jews scattered among the Gentiles, but the Gentiles themselves in every land. And not by making Jews of them, though this point is not made plain here. It will take time for the disciples to grow into this Magna Charta of the missionary propaganda. ................This program includes making disciples or learners (maqhteusate) such as they were themselves. That means evangelism in the fullest sense and not merely revival meetings. Baptism in (eiß, not into) the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, in the name of the Trinity.

I suppose A.T. Robertson is on board.

Look at What A.T. Robertson say about Phil.2:6;

Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

Being (uparcwn). Rather, "existing," present active participle of uparcw. In the form of God (en morph qeou). Morph means the essential attributes as shown in the form. In his preincarnate state Christ possessed the attributes of God and so appeared to those in heaven who saw him. Here is a clear statement by Paul of the deity of Christ. A prize (arpagmon). Predicate accusative with hghsato. Originally words in -moß signified the act, not the result (-ma). The few examples of arpagmoß (Plutarch, etc.) allow it to be understood as equivalent to arpagma, like baptismoß and baptisma. That is to say Paul means a prize to be held on to rather than something to be won ("robbery"). To be on an equality with God (to einai isa qeoi). Accusative articular infinitive object of hghsato, "the being equal with God" (associative instrumental case qewi after isa). Isa is adverbial use of neuter plural with einai as in Revelation 21:16. Emptied himself (eauton ekenwse). First aorist active indicative of kenow, old verb from kenoß, empty. Of what did Christ empty himself? Not of his divine nature. That was impossible. He continued to be the Son of God. There has arisen a great controversy on this word, a Kenosiß doctrine. Undoubtedly Christ gave up his environment of glory. He took upon himself limitations of place (space) and of knowledge and of power, though still on earth retaining more of these than any mere man. It is here that men should show restraint and modesty, though it is hard to believe that Jesus limited himself by error of knowledge and certainly not by error of conduct.

Remember that argument about " being equal with God" You seemed to put the spin on that verse that would lead us to believe Christ was not "grasping" at equality with God. Remember?

Lets see what A.T. Robertson says about Col.1:16;

Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

All things (ta panta). The universe as in Romans 11:35, a well-known philosophical phrase. It is repeated at the end of the verse. In him were created (en autwi ektisqh). Paul now gives the reason (oti, for) for the primacy of Christ in the work of creation (Romans 16). It is the constative aorist passive indicative ektisqh (from ktizw, old verb, to found, to create (Romans 1:25). This central activity of Christ in the work of creation is presented also in John 1:3; Hebrews 1:2 and is a complete denial of the Gnostic philosophy. The whole of creative activity is summed up in Christ including the angels in heaven and everything on earth. God wrought through "the Son of his love." All earthly dignities are included. Have been created (ektistai). Perfect passive indicative of ktizw, "stand created," "remain created." The permanence of the universe rests, then, on Christ far more than on gravity. It is a Christo-centric universe. Through him (di autou). As the intermediate and sustaining agent. He had already used en autwi (in him) as the sphere of activity. And unto him (kai eiß auton). This is the only remaining step to take and Paul takes it (1 Corinthians 15:28) See Ephesians 1:10 for similar use of en autwi of Christ and in Colossians 1:19; Colossians 20 again we have en autwi, di autou, eiß auton used of Christ. See Hebrews 2:10 for di on (because of whom) and di ou (by means of whom) applied to God concerning the universe (ta panta). In Romans 11:35 we find ex autou kai di autou kai eiß auton ta panta referring to God. But Paul does not use ex in this connection of Christ, but only en, dia, and eiß. See the same distinction preserved in 1 Corinthians 8:6 (ex of God, dia, of Christ).

Lets see what A.T. Robertson says about Heb 1:10;

Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

Lord (Kurie). In the LXX, not in the Hebrew. Quotation (the sixth) from Psalms 102:26-28 through verses Hebrews 1:10-12. Note emphatic position of su here at the beginning as in verses Hebrews 11-12 (su de). This Messianic Psalm pictures the Son in his Creative work and in his final triumph. Hast laid the foundation (eqemeliwsaß). First aorist active of qemeliow, old verb from qemelioß (foundation) for which see Colossians 1:23.

A.T. Robertson says the Son creates and triumphs. Didnt you say Heb 1:10 did not represent Christ creating but that it was a reference to laying the foundation of the New Covenant.

E

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

ellderwho

For example, scholar Gregory Boyd has conceded that the echad argument is totally useless for Trinitarian purposes

The following is and excerpt from Gregory Boyds mission statement.

Humans and angels are free moral agents who decide their own destinies and to some extent affect other beings.

Okay Gregory Boyd has an opinion on serveral issues such as free will. Yet another "scholar" turning God into a spectator.

Echad signifies mathematical oneness just as much as yachid does

Then why was yachid not used in the referenced texts? Like Nu. 13:33?

The context must determine whether a numerical or unified singularity is intended.

Nu. 13:33 "they cut down one(echad) cluster of grapes"

Then lets ask the question; what is the numerical value of a cluster of grapes?

In the above case with Dr. Boyds understanding would the correct word be "yachid"

The sense of plurality belongs, not to echad, but to the compound noun attached to it.

God, cluster of grapes, flesh. echad= united one or a compsite unity

According to Koehler and Baumgartner's Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament, the fundamental definition of echad is "one single."

Gen 2:24 "a man shall leave his wife; and they shall become one(echad) flesh."

So Adam and Eve are "one single" ??

So it is incorrect to say that echad has the basic meaning of "compound unity." If anything, it stresses singularity and individuality.

Herk says:

but the plural members of the Trinity are said to be One Being or Godhead.

I say;

the name(singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
He did not say names(plural)

Again does the scripture state " in the name of the Fathers and of the Sons and of the Holy Spirits.?

No it does not! Its singular!

Then you state:

There is a much better explanation for why ?name? is used in the singular.

Which is it plural or singular?

E

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

ellderwho

Why do Trinitarians dishonestly try to explain the Trinity with the oneness that exists between a husband and wife? Persons remain separate beings when they marry, but the plural members of the Trinity are said to be One Being or Godhead.

"one": echad=composite unity, united one.

4?Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one(echad) Jehovah; Youngs Lit. Duet. 6:4

but the plural members of the Trinity are said to be One Being or Godhead.

?Given to me was all authority in heaven and on earth;

having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them?to the name(singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

These scriptures seem to say that there is a plurality to the Godhead and yet he is one.

E

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

ellderwho

Undisfellowshipped;

Ellderwho said:
Your understanding of "free will" goes head to head with your presentation of "the Father who does the drawing" analogy.
IMHO you believe that, yes the father will draw you, but in the end you will have the final say.
How does this fit with what Paul describes us as humans.
How does this fit with what Jesus tells us is the process of being "born again"
Jesus clearly states "all that the Father has given me" none will be lost except the one so that scripture will be fullfilled" (paraphrasing)
Undis,
As scriptures teaches "we are dead" Now, if you are made "alive in the spirit" as you agree (by the drawing by the Father reference you made) how can you make yourself "dead again without spirit"?
If God chooses us, we cannot un-choose him.
If we do the "choosing of God" or it is left up to us we will always win out and reject God its our nature to reject him, we want the darkness " he came unto his own and his own did not recognize him"
And even when he does draw us and make us "heirs" we are still at war in the flesh as Paul states in Romans. The Lord appears to Paul, and in the end Paul battles greatly with the flesh. In utter disgust (I suppose)Paul exclaims "who will save me from this body of death" So here Paul has the "anointing of the Spirit" encounters the Lord Jesus himself and still doesnt know what to do with himself. Obivously the flesh wants no part of the Holy Spirit.
As you would have it our flesh nature can decide.Yes or No to the Holy Spirit.

In the above quotes of myself I have given you examples that challenge your presentation of "born-again." Then you jump to other scriptures Heb. 1John, 2Chron.

But how do you explain Hebrews Chapters 6 and 10?
Hebrews 6:4-8 (NKJV): For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
Hebrews 10:26-31 (NKJV): For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The Lord will judge His people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Now, I believe that those Verses are talking about people who have NOT yet been Born Again, BUT who have been "Enlightened" by the Holy Spirit so that they can understand the Gospel.
How do you read those Verses?

If I'm your christain brother, can you restore me in the spirit?

Those people obviously have God's love, favor, and blessing (but not salvation yet) when they are "Enlightened" with the Truth of the Gospel, and then they must make a decision whether or not to repent and believe and be Born Again.

As the Father sees down the "corridor of time" and "draws" one to his Son, I think God knows what he's doing. But you haved turned God into a spectator waiting and wondering if the one he draws is going to respond or not. You are putting God in a box, on your terms. We're told in Romans, we as humans have no excuse as to who or what God is and has done by the examples of creation itself.

Your refer to scriptures that state "all men come to him" yes thats true. But who comes? Only those drawn.
You brought up a good example although not in favor of your agrument about Manasseh. The verse shows he came to seek forgiveness, why? because one day he felt like it? No. The verse shows only after God "put him in afliction" did he seek the LORD.
But you used that verse to show Manassehs' free will. Its just not there.
If Manasseh did not have freedom to choose God, then why did God keep sending prophets to him?
I believe that Manasseh had been "Enlightened" for many years (because the Scriptures say that Manasseh knew that God existed), but was only "Born Again" when affliction came upon him from God.

Look at the verse again;

10And the LORD spoke to Manasseh and his people, but they would not listen. 11Therefore the LORD brought upon them the captains of the army of the king of Assyria, who took Manasseh with £ hooks, bound him with bronze fetters, and carried him off to Babylon. 12Now when he was in affliction, he implored the LORD his God, and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers, 13and prayed to Him; and He received his entreaty, heard his supplication, and brought him back to Jerusalem into his kingdom. Then Manasseh knew that the LORD was God. (NKJV)

The verses tells us God spoke to him but he would not listen. So the LORD sent armies to take him(no choice here). Could the armies choose if they were going to do Gods will? Why was he in affliction? Did he make himself suffer? Did he have himself in "hooks" and fetters? Did he carry himself to Babylon? I think the answer is obvious. Why would God bother with Manasseh? If God can see down the "time line" he would have known the outcome would'nt he? In the end God always has his will done. Not the persons (will) he draws.

If Manasseh did not have freedom to choose God, then why did God keep sending prophets to him?

You keep saying Manasseh has a choice. Show where his choices are. 11Therefore the LORD brought upon them the captains of the army of the king of Assyria, who took Manasseh with £ hooks, bound him with bronze fetters, and carried him off to Babylon. God is the only "free agent." E

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

ellderwho

Undisfellowshippped,
Here is the biggest Scripture which shows extremely clearly that God DESIRES to save ALL MEN:
1st Timothy 2:1-7: Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle--I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying--a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
What is your explanation of those Verses?
The Bible clearly teaches that God The Father placed each and every sin for each and every human who has ever lived onto the Body of Christ on the Cross, so that Jesus died for ALL MEN from ALL TIME.
However, only the people who put their faith in the True Jesus will receive the free gift of salvation by grace through faith.

Your rebuttal to Deputy Dog is riddled with contradictions from previous post.

Your understanding of "free will" goes head to head with your presentation of "the Father who does the drawing" analogy.

IMHO you believe that, yes the father will draw you, but in the end you will have the final say.

How does this fit with what Paul describes us as humans.

How does this fit with what Jesus tells us is the process of being "born again"

Jesus clearly states "all that the Father has given me" none will be lost except the one so that scripture will be fullfilled" (paraphrasing)

Undis,

As scriptures teaches "we are dead" Now, if you are made "alive in the spirit" as you agree (by the drawing by the Father reference you made) how can you make yourself "dead again without spirit"?

If God chooses us, we cannot un-choose him.

If we do the "choosing of God" or it is left up to us we will always win out and reject God its our nature to reject him, we want the darkness " he came unto his own and his own did not recognize him"

And even when he does draw us and make us "heirs" we are still at war in the flesh as Paul states in Romans. The Lord appears to Paul, and in the end Paul battles greatly with the flesh. In utter disgust (I suppose)Paul exclaims "who will save me from this body of death" So here Paul has the "anointing of the Spirit" encounters the Lord Jesus himself and still doesnt know what to do with himself. Obivously the flesh wants no part of the Holy Spirit.

As you would have it our flesh nature can decide.Yes or No to the Holy Spirit.

Your refer to scriptures that state "all men come to him" yes thats true. But who comes? Only those drawn.

You brought up a good example although not in favor of your agrument about Manasseh. The verse shows he came to seek forgiveness, why? because one day he felt like it? No. The verse shows only after God "put him in afliction" did he seek the LORD.

But you used that verse to show Manassehs' free will. Its just not there.

only the people who put their faith

Isnt this a fruitage of the Spirit?

Who gives us the Faith?

God is the only "free agent."

E

27

A Memorial "Correction"...

by AGuest in

may you all have peace!.

it was spirit that was put into that "soul"... and the spirit... that "sins"... must be destroyed.

but his spirit did not die nor was it destroyed.

ellderwho

Juicer,

Ellder--- who is "stirred" but not "shaken"

E

27

A Memorial "Correction"...

by AGuest in

may you all have peace!.

it was spirit that was put into that "soul"... and the spirit... that "sins"... must be destroyed.

but his spirit did not die nor was it destroyed.

ellderwho

cheeses 69 & 181,

37IK7465 feelK9852 honoredK155 toK7735 beK66637 mentionedK536 byK8743 aK223 kingK552 ofK887 yourK8774satireK2112

Ellder. Who now is enlightened enough to understand that you are surely part of a trinity along with King pin, king fish Or possibly the fisher king.