A Memorial "Correction"...

by AGuest 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you all have peace!

    Although there were many, MANY statements made during the "Memorial Talk," there is one in particular that cannot go unchecked. Because it was actually the BASIS for this year's talk... and so emphasized over and over, the Spirit of my Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH... of Armies... is upon me, through His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... to speak the TRUTH... so that none are misled without their own accession.

    During the "talk", the "brother" read from the outline a statement that said, in effect, that for some time the Christ was "out of existence," that in dying, God TOOK him out of existence... and let him BE out of existence... for a time.

    THIS... IS... A... LIE.

    From his beginning on... my Lord exists forever. Even during his death (in the flesh) he existed. In SPIRIT. It was by this very means that during his three days of fleshly death... he went and preached to the SPIRITS in Sheol. IF he was "out of existence"... as these false christs assert... then he could NOT have gone to the world of the dead and spoken TO the dead. For THEY say HE, too, was dead... to the point of NON-EXISTENCE. This is a LIE.

    The "Society," then... in ITS apostasy... has purposed to perpetuate that lie... that my Lord had an "end" and was brought back from that "end." But death... is NOT the end: DESTRUCTION is the end. But their false teaching is based on their BLIND belief... that when one dies... one's SPIRIT also dies, too!

    Nothing could be further from the truth! It is the FLESH that dies - the SPIRIT... must be destroyed... and can only BE destroyed BY fire from heaven, or IN fire in heaven.

    Matthew 10:28; Revelation 20:15

    When one dies... one's flesh returns to the earth. One's spirit, however, goes to one of two (2) places:

    1. The world of the dead - Sheol or Hades - for those who are "separated" from God's spirit, where it "sleeps" until it is resurrected by God; or

    2. For those who are "in union" with God, through Christ... it returns TO God... where it "rests/sleeps" under the "altar", the place of "sacred service" to God... until it is resurrected... to life.

    Ecclesiastes 12:7; Revelation 6:11

    The SPIRIT... is the "man" who is on the INSIDE, inside the "clay vessel" that is the fleshly body. That vessel can be changed in all sorts of ways, but you are still who you are... on the INSIDE. The fleshly body, then, is the SOUL. Adam... became a living SOUL... that is, a BODY with life in it! Thus, the "soul" that is sinning... the FLESH... dies. It was SPIRIT that was put INTO that "soul"... and the SPIRIT... that "sins"... must be destroyed. That is the very reason why the ANGELS that sinned... which angels are SPIRITS... still exist: they did not die, because spirits do not die. They are awaiting destruction... just as it says.

    My Lord... died... ONLY in that he put off the clay vessel that was his FLESH. But his SPIRIT did not die nor was it destroyed. It went... and preached... until it was given another body... just as GOD pleased... which body had a "white" robe... or was "INcorruptible"... and thus, could enter into heaven.

    Their teaching is also false... by their own teachings: it is they who say that mankind faces utter destruction from which there is NO resurrection... and that those who face such will be "out of existence," non-existent. IF, then, my Lord was out of existence... then he underwent the destruction from which is NO resurrection. That is a LIE.

    He was NOT "out of existence," and such propaganda is a LIE... from the father OF the lie... as perpetuated by his "children."

    May those with ears to hear... hear... and hear the Spirit and the Bride when they say to YOU:

    "Come! Take 'life's water' free!"

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes

    It is not a lie. You don't understand death.

    There is no spirit. Spirit literally translates breath. If you want to believe in magic breath beyond the grave then fine, but when people die in the real world they are out of existence. Also your Lord didn?t do much if he faked his death by remaining alive in some other plane for a three-day vacation.

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho
    Spirit literally translates breath

    19For that which befallethH4745 the sonsH1121 of menH120 befallethH4745 beastsH929; even oneH2088 thing befallethH4745 them: as the oneH2088 diethH4194, soH3651 diethH4194 the otherH2088; yea, they have allH3605 oneH259 breathH7307; so that a manH120 hath noH369 preeminenceH4195 aboveH4480 a beastH929: for allH3605 is vanityH1892.

    H7306

    ç?eø

    ruòach

    roo'-akh

    A primitive root; properly to blow, that is, breathe; only (literally) to smell or
    (by implication perceive (figuratively to anticipate, enjoy):?accept, smell, X
    touch, make of quick understanding.

    21WhoH4310 knowethH3045 the spiritH7307 of manH1121-H120 that goethH5927 upwardH4605, and the spiritH7307 of the beastH929 that goethH3381 downwardH4295 to the earthH776?

    H7307

    ç?eø

    ruòach

    roo'-akh

    From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even
    violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a
    region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including
    its expression and functions):?air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X
    quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

    Depends on what translation your using. And how you want to beat your verse into shape.

    There is no spirit

    23And the veryG846 GodG2316 of peaceG1515 sanctifyG37 you whollyG3651; and I pray God yourG3588 wholeG3648 spiritG4151 and soulG5590 and bodyG4983 be preservedG5083 blamelessG274 unto the comingG3952 of our LordG2962 JesusG2424 ChristG5547.

    E

  • Amazing1914
    Amazing1914

    HI AGuest,

    I understand your views and to some extent agree with you. The fact is, our views of whether Christ is God, hence did not "really, really" die at Calvary, or whether he totally and completely "died" in every respect is a matter of theological gymnastics ... complete with each side calling the other side liars ... but, we really cannot say for sure, because the Bible is not 100% clear ... and the Bible is not 100% trustworthy as being completely from God.

    While I would like to know all the answers 100% ... Gid has seen fit to leave some things unknown, or unclear, or lacking detail ... so, it seem wise to be content to have a simpler faith in Jesus as the Son of God who died for us ... and resist the temptation to go beyond that.

    Amazing

  • boa
    boa

    amen amazing 1914

    boa - who needs no religious complexity right now - sigh

  • English Patient
    English Patient

    Aguest,

    I appreciate and admire your faith, but nothing is definate in theology.

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Thai poes

    It is not a lie. You don't understand death.

    And you do? - I seriously doubt it.

    Sirona

  • Holey_Cheeses*King_of_the juice.
    Holey_Cheeses*King_of_the juice.

    ellderwho,

    37ThatK7465 isK9852 theK155 mostK7735 sensibleK66637 shitK536 thatK8743 youK223 haveK552 everK887 writtenK8774.

    cheeses 69 & 181. Who now is enlightened enough to understand that you must surely form part of the trinity along with Aguest and JCanon. Or possibly the three stooges.

  • Corvin
    Corvin

    OK, I have learned to hate these topics, but here goes.

    In order for Jesus' ransom sacrefice to be valid, he would had to have experienced death. If he did not really die at calvery, then it is all bullshizer and his sacrefice was meaningless. It was a hat trick, a pulling of the whool.

    There is no spirit. Spirit literally translates breath

    According to Gesenius Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon To The Old Testiment, a scholarly non JW publication, page 571a, says the spirit of man is "that which has breath, a living creature."

    The "soul" is "animal of life, i.e., a living creature. pg 274b

    The world of the dead - Sheol or Hades - for those who are "separated" from God's spirit, where it "sleeps" until it is resurrected by God;

    And I hate to break it to you, but, Hades is: 1. to sleep the sleep of death. 2. The place or abode of the dead . . . and 3. DESTRUCTION. pg 461a

    Nothing whatsoever indicates the soul or spirit of man is seperate and survives the physical death. Those are the facts. Take it or leave it.

    The WTBTS got this one right, like it or not.

  • English Patient
    English Patient
    The WTBTS got this one right, like it or not.

    Wrong, for how can you call something true which is taken from fiction? It's just another interpretation - like it or not.

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