Posts by umbertoecho

28

Ray Franz and You.

by John Aquila in

if ray franz would have kept his mouth shut and not disfellowshipped, and remained part of the governing body how many of us ex-jw would still be trapped in the cult?.

would we have come this far?.

It certainly sound like it doesn't it? And yet I know of equally bad congregations according to some who have moved away for personal reasons. I think that it was just me "seeing" things for what they were. People who were in the Inner sanctum of the congregations would have not seen things with clarity, for they were busy being assholes to other people. That line of reasoning alone, could be a great cause for stumbling, to anyone with a critical mind and a beating heart.

I was lucky in a way, for I had not accepted baptism as yet and was treated with a degree of suspicion after the initial love bombing. You see, I just did not conform in so many little ways.

28

Ray Franz and You.

by John Aquila in

if ray franz would have kept his mouth shut and not disfellowshipped, and remained part of the governing body how many of us ex-jw would still be trapped in the cult?.

would we have come this far?.

umbertoecho

EdenOne

What you have said about the "calm approach" of Ray Franz is important. Had I read the book and found a frenzy of statements and overt anger, I would have been suspicious at the time. I was so afraid the whole time I was reading his book. Afraid of being caught out, paranoid of it somehow showing on my face.........all that cultish feeling that sweeps through a person when they feel they are going against the ultimate authority on god.

I had loaned it from my local library and recall feeling scared that the librarian was a JW and I would be found. So stretched were my nerves at the time. As I read his quiet refutations of doctrine and man made rules, I began to calm down and re read passages that I had read while I was panicking ( it's hard to take it in when you are in a state of fear) I found his concise accounts, substantiated with documents and such, were a proof that I truly needed at the time.

Yes, I do agree with you, it was a well thought out biography, expose, and generally well put explanation of how things were and are.

70

How Far Apart Were Your Legs?

by Joe Grundy in

several threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.

fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.

a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

umbertoecho

Joe Grundy.

Please rave on as much as you can. The facts are very important to bring a true sense of what it is like for those who are either ignored or sometimes called liars. It's an issue of importance and it includes boys and girls who are by nature trusting and wanting the love of their parents and family. To be smashed on every level of their beings whilst trying to find some way to protect themselves by "telling on the bad man or woman" . Then to be rebuffed, has a permanent effect.

39

Child Abuse - "I don't care. I haven't got any children".

by cofty in

earlier this week i bumped into a couple of jws who i recognised from the cult cart.

a few months ago i had a long conversation with him one of them and found him to be quite friendly.

he is new to the area in the years since i left.. this time he was very defensive and said he wasn't allowed to talk to me.

umbertoecho

They just need to change the authorities notification policy. The two witness policy is no longer, so there is some improvement in the case of accusations of physical/sexual abuse.

Also parents need to take better care of their young. Yes, parents.

This is not accurate. I don't know where you got this information from Sofia Lose. The two witness rule most definately applies. What people are saying on this site is that they want the organization to treat this crime as a crime and inform authorities. No one is saying that abuse doesn't happen elsewhere.

As a parent I took every precaution and somehow it still occurred after a good few years of my trust being gained. My children's too. Then it started and for a short time the children said nothing. The second I found out, he was out, then charged and found guilty. You sound a bit cold to me

39

Child Abuse - "I don't care. I haven't got any children".

by cofty in

earlier this week i bumped into a couple of jws who i recognised from the cult cart.

a few months ago i had a long conversation with him one of them and found him to be quite friendly.

he is new to the area in the years since i left.. this time he was very defensive and said he wasn't allowed to talk to me.

umbertoecho

It's what a lot of them will say when backed into a corner with facts. My sister lost all her composure and turned to insults when I refuted the crap she was trying to force me to read. She wasn't so calm and mild with "words seasoned with a little salt" then. She lost her bloody temper!!

Just a little dent in their brittle shell of "righteousness" will make a lot of them crack. Then you will see what the real personality is like. The personality is very distorted after years of expecting everyone to die but them. It's almost impossible to discuss anything like that with them. How could it not be?

34

Witnesses and anxiety disorder

by mana11 in

i saw this on a public user group for jw's .

the librarian [email protected].

the caption reads:.

umbertoecho

Can't do anything but agree with every comment. They are all accurate observations.

The elder of my "supposed" congregation is on a huge amount of drugs for depression and other ailments. The whole family is on them. I know this for a fact. It's like a drug wonder world in their house. These people are not happy, they try to look happy, but they are terribly over weight and very unfit, despite the pioneering they do. They are full of anxieties and pressures. I have know the elder since he was a boy in my old congregation in the sixties. He looks older than me, she looks older than me.......they are not a healthy balanced family........

50

The Report - BBC Radio 4 about Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Sexual Abuse can now be heard

by AndersonsInfo in

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0612hjs.

the report about child abuse and jehovah's witnesses is now live.. jehovah's witnesses handle child abuse cases.

jehovah's witnesses and child sexual abuse, the report - bbc radio 4 .

umbertoecho

True The Searcher. Very true. They have a pat response to this sort of reporting, they will say it's Satan's system doing this evil undermining of the WT. Then they will feel comfortable and justified.

I will say..." So why does your' organization feel comfortable fighting for other rights in Satan's legal world then. Why have you bragged for decades about every win you have ever had in those evil Satanic courts. You employed lawyers who were not JWs, you employed lawyers who were of Satan's world to defend your' rights and that was okay?"

They will just clam up. They always do. It will be that over done expression of "We are being persecuted".

21

Sam Herd’s comment on the 2001 Dateline expose

by Londo111 in

im going by memory, so not an exact quote...i believe this was around 2002, at the crownsville assembly hall (now sold from what i understand)..

he said basically: some people watch an hour show and give up the faith that theyve had for decades..

the impact of this show was like a canon being shot into a swimming pool.

umbertoecho

Londo, I thank you as well for posting this video. I had not seen it before. So much of what the victims said were exactly as I recall them.

I await the Royal Commission which is due to start next week here in Australia, Monday to be exact. I hope the questions are hard and clear and do not allow the ones being questioned to slither out of a complete and revealing answer.

50

The Report - BBC Radio 4 about Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Sexual Abuse can now be heard

by AndersonsInfo in

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0612hjs.

the report about child abuse and jehovah's witnesses is now live.. jehovah's witnesses handle child abuse cases.

jehovah's witnesses and child sexual abuse, the report - bbc radio 4 .

umbertoecho

Thank you mephis, it's the only way I will be able to hear or see it.

13

LET'S EXPLORE A LITTLE THOUGHT EXPERIMENT

by TerryWalstrom in

over here on the left we have a governing body which is inspired directly by jehovah to receive his instructions for how to worship and interpret the bible accurately.. on the other hand, on the right we have a governing body which isn't inspired nor directed by jehovah, but which is making the best guesses they can make as mere humans as to proper worship and bible interpretation.. here is our thought experiment.. what differences would we see or would have seen in the last 100 years of jw teaching in each instance, .

and how would they differ?.

umbertoecho

I cannot see how they suddenly arrived in this form of GB. They are a young relgion using the research of older established religions to form doctrine. I just can't believe in any sort of "spirit direction" that they claim. Even this claim is Catholic, the resurrection is Catholic, or was. They have taken many of the hard core approaches that Catholicism use to contain critics. One of those methods is to denounce any form of questioning or asking for evidence. I'm happily comparing some of the Catholic methods of indoctrination with those that the society and others have adopted. Some methods are identical.

I can't even begin to believe these GB. It feels like a lie to me. It is completely false.