Posts by AnnOMaly

26

Did you suffer humiliating childhood experiences as a JW?

by yadda yadda 2 in

in john cedar's (jwsurvey.org) latest excellent article on his blog about a us teacher that got reprimanded for trying to force a jw boy to salute the american flag, he relates a similar childhood experience where he was terribly humiliated at school in view of his classmates.. this reminded me of a similar humiliating experience i suffered at school, when i was 11 years old.

during our school's end of year 'prom night' (not actually called that in the country i live) which was in the style of a disco night, my unbalanced jw mother came to pick me up early and stormed right into the hall and grabbed my arm and pulled me out in front of all my friends right in the middle of the dancing.

on the way out she gave the teachers a lecture about the music being far too loud and how unwholesome the whole thing was for children of my age.

AnnOMaly

I remember one teacher who had it in for the JW kids, always gave us the stink-eye because we would not participate in religious class, and for every religious lesson made us sit in a row at the rear of classroom, with our backs to everyone, reading our WTS stuff (if we forgot it, we were told off and given a school Bible to read instead). It makes me angry now - so unnecessary (a couple of years later, JW parents allowed their kids to participate!!!) - and the teacher had no business taking it out on us - it wasn't our fault.

I also remember feeling humiliated when I brought home a black, paper witches hat I'd made and decorated. For some reason I joined in with the class in making Halloween stuff - maybe I was fed up of opting out all the damn time, or maybe I was persuaded (or persuaded myself?) that I could pretend it was something else not to do with witches, I'm not sure. Anyway, I was quite proud of the result and showed it off when I got home - "Look what I made!" You can imagine my 'demonophobic' mother's reaction (it was almost a repeat of the Sparlock video LOL). Disgust, bewilderment and disappointment at how I could have done such a dreadful thing after all I'd been taught. As I say, I felt crushed. I'd worked hard on it, liked it, wanted to play with it. However, my lovely pointy hat got trashed immediately.

Uncomfortable memories. And there are more of them. School was an ordeal. No wonder lots JW kids grow up to have low self-esteem.

62

Game: Caption this pic

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

i'll start.. .

AnnOMaly

I like this one best:

"No Eric, I said why not grow a goatie, as in beard!"

18

Planting Seeds--Plants Do Not Grow Overnight

by blondie in

jw
friends

i see some post here that want family and friends to see ttatt immediately.. i'm a gardener, a serious one.

we make sure we put in an area that gets sun, check the soil each year, put in compost and other amendments, make sure we plant seeds compatible with the ones next to them, plant far enough apart, proper amount of water.

everything can be perfect but when i go out the day after planting...nothing has broken through yet.

AnnOMaly

Good thread, Blondie and absolutely spot on!

With me also, lots of 'little' things over my whole life as a born-in got me to the stage where I was willing to look objectively at the JW religion, and that was piece-by-piece over years. From that time to the time I was finally able to make the break - 10 years.

48

Satan thrown to earth "about" 1914?

by wearewatchingyouman in

so i'm thumbing through the new "silver sword" and i notice that in the appendix under "message of the bible" that it says, "about 1914 jesus hurls the serpent satan to the earth...." i can't remeber ever hearing the word "about" and 1914 placed together before in regards to this event.

are there any jwapologists, or anyone else for that matter, who have an explanation for this?.

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/appendix-b/message-of-the-bible/.

AnnOMaly

watching,

Parousia 1874. Installation as king 1878. Armageddon 1914.

It mostly got revamped in Ratherflawed's tenure as WTS president during the '20s and '30s. After all, 1914 didn't pan out as expected, Russell died, and what was supposed to have been a visible power grab by Jesus over the world had to be reinterpreted, spiritualized.

Sometimes old dates would be phased out gradually; sometimes he or another writer just declared a new one, often prefacing it all with 'Jehovah reveals His purposes and secrets to his people at the right time, blah, blah' and making new scriptural/prophetic interpretations.

The 1878 thing was replaced with 1914 in the 1920s. I've put links in so you access the whole articles and follow the 'reasoning' for yourself

w24, 2/15, p. 57

The Lord has been present since 1874, but not until 1914 did he take unto himself his power and reign.

w27, 5/15, p. 152

It pleased God to cause a prophetic statement to be recorded whereby the followers of Christ on earth could locate the time when he would begin action against the Devil, and the fulfilment of this prophecy shows that it took place in 1914. It is written in the Scriptures, as relating to the same time, that "the nations were angry". The Gentile Times ended in 1914, and the nations were then angry, and it was the Lord’s due time to take possession and oust Satan. Seeing then that the Scriptures conclusively prove that the Lord Jesus Christ did not take his great power and begin his reign in 1878, but that he did so in 1914, it follows that the resurrection of the sleeping saints did not take place in 1878.

48

Satan thrown to earth "about" 1914?

by wearewatchingyouman in

so i'm thumbing through the new "silver sword" and i notice that in the appendix under "message of the bible" that it says, "about 1914 jesus hurls the serpent satan to the earth...." i can't remeber ever hearing the word "about" and 1914 placed together before in regards to this event.

are there any jwapologists, or anyone else for that matter, who have an explanation for this?.

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/appendix-b/message-of-the-bible/.

AnnOMaly

Yes... apparently World War I was started by 'Satan' to 'turn attention' away from something that supposedly happened 'invisibly' in 'heaven', which no one would have noticed anyway because nothing actually happened. (How very crafty. ) Once again, Watch Tower comes through with 'brilliant' 'logic'.

Moreover, Satan was turning attention away from something that he didn't know was going to happen*, that both the world and the Bible Students were oblivious to because a) it was invisible (as you said) and b) the BSs thought it had already occurred invisibly in 1878!†

---

* w51 11/15 p. 703 Questions From Readers

These former sons of God could not return to Jehovah’s service had they wanted to; they remained with their chosen master, Satan, and became his demon hordes. They were now imprisoned in dense darkness, alienated from God, in the dark as to his purposes, with a dark end ahead of them, all of which is well pictured by Tartarus. (See 2 Peter 2:4, NW, and appendix note thereon.)

* w55 10/1 p. 599 par. 22 Part 3—What Do the Scriptures Say About “Survival After Death”?

Satan and these other imprisoned spirits are still in the Biblical Tartarus and its dense darkness regarding God’s favor and his purposes.

† ZWT March 1, 1913, p. 70 [R5193]

Even though the kingdom may be considered as begun from the time the King began the exercise of his great power (Rev. 11:17) in 1878, it will not be "set up," in the full sense of the word, until the last member of the kingdom has been changed or glorified--until the breaking of the Loaf, The Christ, Head and body, is completed.

48

Satan thrown to earth "about" 1914?

by wearewatchingyouman in

so i'm thumbing through the new "silver sword" and i notice that in the appendix under "message of the bible" that it says, "about 1914 jesus hurls the serpent satan to the earth...." i can't remeber ever hearing the word "about" and 1914 placed together before in regards to this event.

are there any jwapologists, or anyone else for that matter, who have an explanation for this?.

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/appendix-b/message-of-the-bible/.

AnnOMaly

Some references of past pronouncements on the timing. Probably why they've given up and just put 'about 1914' in the RNWT appendix:

w00 1/1 p. 8 par. 10 Serving With the Watchman

True to Bible prophecy, this world’s “conclusion” began in 1914 and was marked by the outbreak of the first world war. (Matthew 24:3, 7) There is strong evidence that Satan and his demonic hordes were cast out of heaven following that year.[1915, then]

w83 5/15 pp. 22-23 pars. 5-6 The Glorious Work That Follows the Ride of the Horsemen

Since the fiery-colored horse and its war-minded rider followed the rider on the white horse, does this mean that the first horseman started World War I after his coronation in 1914 and thus started using his “bow”? Not at all! Revelation chapter 12 pictures what would follow the birth of the Kingdom of the first horseman in 1914 [what would follow after October 1914]: an invisible, superhuman war. “And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: ‘Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! . . . On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.’”—Verses 7-12.

6 That account places the blame for the first world war [which preceded October and Satan's ousting and wrath] that claimed more than 8 million human lives from July 28, 1914, squarely upon the Devil and his demons.

w70 12/15 p. 757 par. 28 End of Worldwide Witnessing Gets Nearer

After his enthronement in heaven [October 1914], World War I on earth was overshadowed by the fact that “war broke out in heaven” and Satan was cast down to the earth [sometime after October, therefore].—Rev. 12:1-13.

Finished Mystery (1969), p. 314 Birth of God's Messianic Kingdom

The ouster of the 'great dragon' and his demons from heaven was apparently fully accomplished by the end of World War I [by 1918 - lots of wiggle room there].

w53 2/15 p. 119 par. 23 When Will God’s Kingdom Come?

God knew that Satan the wicked one would attempt to turn the attention of the people away from God’s kingdom when it was established. So it was when Satan was ousted from the heavens down to the earth. [that'll be 1914] He was wrathful. He plunged the nations into World War I. [in August] He wanted to turn the attention of the people away from the significant event that then was taking place [in October] and he proceeded to do so in the most deceptive ways. But he must hurry! Why? Listen to the inspired account at Revelation 12:9, 12 (NW): “So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; . . . Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.”

33

What is the best for the child if father knows TTATT and mother is a devout JW?

by Daniel1555 in

jw
friends

hi friends.

i would like to know your opinion on the following:.

situation:.

AnnOMaly

My husband went for a version of Option #1. Is was one of the better choices with the hand that had been dealt. Hubby had experienced first hand what living in a religiously divided household did to a kid and he was determined it wasn't going to be that way for his children, so he kept a tight lid on what he knew, although bits did trickle out occasionally. He had retained his Christian faith and the few 'Bible studies' he had with our kids (we were never hot on formal 'Bible studies' with the publications - even me, a 'loyal' dub, didn't like the ritual) were about simple lessons learned from the well-known Bible stories and Christian ethics. Questions about JW doctrine were welcome. Different views would be presented.

While the kids were still very young, I woke up to TTATT. The complexities of our circumstances meant that we couldn't just leave, but we have tried to give the kids a watered-down JW experience, gradually becoming more diluted over the years until we made the break. It has been a very difficult, often painful, slow process for us and I don't think they have come through it unscathed, nevertheless, it is 99% certain they will never become baptized JWs.

We have been able to keep contact with all our family so far - JW, non-JW, ex-JW. This had been our aim - keeping it ticking along until they became grown and could have familial relationships independent of us. And whatever happens to us in the end, if we become pariahs with JW family, at least our kids will truly be free.

14

2013-For New Ones!

by Atlantis in

.. 1. http://www.a2z.org/wtarchive/archive.htm .

.. http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=jehovah%27s%20witnesses .

.. http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=jehovah%27s%20witnesses&page=2 .

AnnOMaly

Thanks for the link list, Atlantis.

And don't forget the "Pennsylvania" ARCHIVE. When you get there don't let it confuse you. You will see a large line of "PDF" symbols with nothing to tell you what the PDF is for.

It is annoying having all those pdfs but no way to see which ones they are. This is my method for getting round the problem:

Right click on the PDF link. A menu appears.
Choose 'inspect element.' A box of apparent gobbledegook comes up, but in amongst all that is a list of clickable pdf links and, most importantly what they refer to.
Scroll down and there is a button which says 'Show all nodes (193 more)' or another archive says 'Show all nodes (1804 more).' Click on that button and more pdf links appear.
Choose your pdf, right click on it and opt for 'open link in new tab.'

That way, you don't have to mess about clicking and cancelling each link until you find what you want.

30

New! Borg instruct to report tract placements

by pixel in

there's a new letter coming up next week to be read instructing the publishers to begin reporting the number of tracts placed in the ministry, including copies of kingdom news 38, annual invitations, district handbills and other tracts.

lol.

see, the borg is allegue about numbers, and why on earth do they tell you to start counting placement in the middle of a campaing, like the one they are doing now witk kingdom news 38 and not before it started??.

AnnOMaly

Counting tract placements? You gotta be kidding me.

Are they going to divide the report slip columns into 'Tracts given to a person,' 'Tracts squashed through a not-at-home's door / into their mailbox,' 'Tracts taken from a literature cart,' 'e-Tracts sent as attachments'?

"Yes brother, I've placed 7582 tracts this month. However, to keep track of them all, I will need to lug a diary the size of War and Peace around with me to note them all down in ... or maybe buy more memory for my tablet to cope with the sudden influx of data entry. I have little time to actually meet and TALK to people now because I have to write down every single occasion I give away all these flimsy bits of paper!"

30

Who are doing Jehovahs will" Brochure sections 3 and 4

by DS211 in

section 3 first!.

how was bible truth rediscovered?.

it goes in to the section and explains that false teachers were foretold to arise after jesus died (and the apostles died according to one conment).

AnnOMaly

Would have been nice for someone to call out, "How dare they put in God's personal name where it doesn't appear!"