Posts by AnnOMaly

22

RIP Comet Ison

by cofty in

it appears that comet ison has not survived its journey past the sun.... its a pity, it would have been a wonderful sight next week if it had made it.

.

4.6 billions years wasn't a bad innings..

AnnOMaly

Nice little video: http://www.spaceweather.com/images2013/28nov13/rip_anim5.gif?PHPSESSID=commcp0m3s8c1lcsd1p5c8n2r1

Not completely obliterated.

224

Another problem for JW apologists

by Jeffro in

the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

AnnOMaly

There is much divided opinion as to how the Hebrew of 2Kings 17:1 shoukd be rendered ito English. The first paper which dealt with this problem was that of Edmund Parker in his article 'A Note On The Chronology Of 2Kings 17:1' wherein he claims that Hoshea 'had reigned' rather than the' reign beginning' as NWT and most other translations adopt.

Leslie Mc Fall in his lengthy paper 'A Translation Guide to the Chronological Data in Kings and Chronicles' discusses the problem in greater detail and states that "The syntax of the Hebrew is more flexible than the English versions allow for it permits either a terminus a quo or a terminus ad quem". So your criticism on this verse fails. [Bold mine.]

Actually, both these scholars support Jeffro's initial point, that the more correct rendering of the verse suggests Hoshea had reigned 9 years by the time of Ahaz's 12th year. McFall was contradicting the assumption (made by most Bible translations and Thiele) that the synchronism was a terminus a quo. Parker, McFall and Jeffro are on the same page and therefore Jeffro's criticism on the old NWT rendering of this verse stands. I don't know what you were trying to achieve here, Neil, by concluding the opposite of what your sources were arguing.

Parker source.

McFall source (see p. 30-1).

Another useful source (Young).

93

Rolf Furuli's accusation about VAT 4956 being tampered with?

by possiblepineapple in

i'm sorry but can someone here explain what this is about.

i saw someone on here called scholar on here saying that it somehow destroyed both coj and hermann hunger but how?

how does rolf furuli know that it was tampered with?

AnnOMaly

How exactly does RF ger around that evidence? He can't claim all the tablets have been tampered with. Rather confused as to how he feels he can argue against it.

He either attempts to re-date astronomical data on key tablets to fit with his preferred years or undermines tablets' chronological usefulness by either finding fault with the data or disputing the interpretation of the cuneiform signs. He also tries to make a case for the existence of dozens of anomalous business tablets that call into question the conventional chronology because of the way they are dated (nearly all of them are actually printing errors in academic sources or early reading errors that have long been corrected). He suggests there are holes and inconsistencies in various nations' kings' time-lines, as well as possible 'unknown' kings lurking about somewhere undiscovered. Oh, and as jgnat said, he obfuscates a lot.

Have you read the two public edition WT articles on 'When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?' from 2011? The second article (November issue) in particular is a brief showcase of F's methods and arguments.

16

A very nice JW tried to give me a pamphlet today at my door

by Faithful Witness in

i'm so happy that they came while i was home, and i was prepared for the knock on my door.

i greeted a very nice jw lady on my doorstep.

she wanted to give me a pamphlet about whether the dead will live again.

AnnOMaly

It's very often the 'minute details' a householder brings up that stick in the mind. I remember some that niggled away for years. A new association, connection, has been made in her brain. I suspect she will now think of what you said every time she fills in a time slip or hears the annual Service Meeting talks on reporting. You just don't know whether your 'minute detail' has joined with other 'minute' (or not so minute) issues that have stuck with her. If she accumulates enough of them to reach critical mass ...

59

Letter I wrote to the person the caused me to be disfellowshipped

by jwfacts in

a thread on another forum reminded me of a letter i wrote to the person that went to the elders and started the proceedings to have me disfellowshipped.

i stopped believing in the religion when i was 25 but continued going for about ten years.

i finally started to fade at 35, but about 6 months after i had stopped going to meetings, a person wrote a letter to the elders about my website, which at the time was anonymous.

AnnOMaly

LOL. Brilliant

23

" Jehovah's Witnesses " were NOT Jonadabs!!??!?

by DATA-DOG in

2/15/1966 wt.

identifying the present-day beneficiaries.

15) in speaking of the marking work, page 111 of vindication said that this work of giving the testimony is not for the purpose of converting the people of the world and bringing them into some organization, but it is to make known the fact that those who desire to flee from the wicked organization of christendom may do so and declare themselves on the lords side, and thus be in line to be brought through the time of trouble, when the slaughtering begins.

AnnOMaly

How do you make those appear in boxes?

Select your text. Press the 'quote' button (between the 'indent' and 'undo' buttons).

23

" Jehovah's Witnesses " were NOT Jonadabs!!??!?

by DATA-DOG in

2/15/1966 wt.

identifying the present-day beneficiaries.

15) in speaking of the marking work, page 111 of vindication said that this work of giving the testimony is not for the purpose of converting the people of the world and bringing them into some organization, but it is to make known the fact that those who desire to flee from the wicked organization of christendom may do so and declare themselves on the lords side, and thus be in line to be brought through the time of trouble, when the slaughtering begins.

AnnOMaly

The 'spirit-begotten' 144,000 and 'great crowd' were 'spiritual Israel' ("Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen" - Isa. 43:10).

The Jonadabs/'other sheep' were not 'spiritual Israel' but 'companions,' 'people of good will,' 'mixed company' (who accompanied the Israelites during the exodus), 'Jonadabs' (Jonadab accompanied and supported anointed Jehu), 'alien residents,' 'spiritual Gentiles,' etc. and, therefore, could not be counted as 'Jehovah's witnesses.'

Caused some confusion after 1935 when questions started to surface about whether the new-style Jonadabs/earth-bound 'great crowd' class could officiate in JW congregations or be elders etc.

23

" Jehovah's Witnesses " were NOT Jonadabs!!??!?

by DATA-DOG in

2/15/1966 wt.

identifying the present-day beneficiaries.

15) in speaking of the marking work, page 111 of vindication said that this work of giving the testimony is not for the purpose of converting the people of the world and bringing them into some organization, but it is to make known the fact that those who desire to flee from the wicked organization of christendom may do so and declare themselves on the lords side, and thus be in line to be brought through the time of trouble, when the slaughtering begins.

AnnOMaly

Vindication I (1931), p. 106-108

Who are the ones that receive the mark in their foreheads? Whoever they are, they cry for the abominations that are done in Christendom. It could not have reference to those who come to a knowledge of the truth and who are anointed of the Lord, because such are in “the joy of the Lord” …

The ones marked could not refer to the “great multitude”, or “tribulation” class , because, while it is true that these do mourn and ‘sigh as prisoners’, yet they will not be spared in the great time of trouble, but, on the contrary, they are appointed to die; and when the great assault is made upon the city, they will fall. (Zech. 14:2) They will not be carried through the time of trouble. They will be forced into the time of trouble to take their stand on the side of the Lord, but must die in order to live as spirit creatures .

There is but one other class of people on the earth to whom the prophecy could apply. Within the land of Christendom there is a class of people who are under the Devil’s organization but who are no part of it and do not sympathize with it. They are people of good will who have a desire for righteousness but who have not had an opportunity to learn the truth, this being due to the unfaithfulness of the clergymen in Christendom. … These people of good will are ignorant of God’s Word and his purposes of redemption and deliverance of the human race by and through the ministration of the kingdom. …

The Lord tells of a class of persons whom he will ‘deliver in a time of trouble and keep alive and bless upon the earth’. (Ps. 41:1,2) This must be the class of persons that are often described as ‘the millions now living that will never die’. This is the class of men and women that receive the mark in their foreheads, that is to say, are given some knowledge of God’s purposes to destroy the wicked organization and to establish his own government of righteousness under Christ and according to his promise to bless all the families of the earth.

Vindication III (1932), p.204 - talking about Ezek. 40 and the outer court of the temple:

"It was seven steps above the outside, but was lower than the pavement of the inner court ( I-H ), which is utilized by the royal priesthood. This picture shows the position of the "great multitude". Ever and anon someone advances the conclusion that the "great multitude" will not be a spiritual class. The prophecy of Ezekiel shows that such conclusion is erroneous. The fact that their position is seven steps higher than the outside shows that they must be made spirit creatures."

16

Pages 1766-1767 of the 2013 NWT

by Doug Mason in

pages 1766-1767 of the 2013 nwt states that the message of the bible is gods right to rule.. given that the wts declares that gods kingdom rule began in 1914, one would suspect that this would feature.

instead, there is a vague reference to something that supposedly happened about 1914.. here's the picture:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/2013_nwt__pages_1766__1767.jpg.

AnnOMaly

Just had to comment on this part of the QFR Bobcat cited:

w72 6/1 p. 352 Questions From Readers:

The start of that sanguinary conflict was doubtless part of his [Satan's] scheme to blind persons to what had happened in the heavens in fulfillment of Bible prophecy and also, if at all possible, to hinder the Kingdom from ruling over the world of mankind.

Satan's scheme was so successful that NOBODY - not even the anointed, chosen Bible Students - discerned what happened in the heavens in the Fall of 1914, nor did they discern it for a couple of decades afterward!

But the FDS/GB/Writing Department don't tell anybody that, do they?

28

Feb. 2014 WT , whats this all about???

by Crazyguy in

read this in another thread,,,,,,,,,feb 2014 wt.

there, they cast doubt on the application of daniel's 70 weeks prophecy to being fulfilled with christ.. "could the first-century jews have calculated the time of the messiahs arrival on the basis of the prophecy of the 70 weeks recorded at daniel 9:24-27 ?

while that possibility cannot be ruled out, it cannot be confirmed.

AnnOMaly

In the past, notably in the "Insight" book article on "Messiah" the WT have given the impression that the Bible says that the Jews were expecting the Messiah at this time for a particular reason. A careful reading of the texts they use shows no such thing.

Several times the WTS has quoted an old 19th century French Bible manual which stated that Daniel 9's '70 weeks' prophecy was the reason the 1st century Jews were expecting the Messiah at that time. This seems to be the source of their past assumption ... which they are now suggesting is incorrect. See hyperlinked thread above for more information.