Posts by AnnOMaly

31

New layout feels very chaotic

by EndofMysteries in

i don't really know how to describe the feeling but i'll give examples, but the new layout to me makes it feel tiring being on for too long.

1. there is the top menu, then a big add between that and the next part, a big ad between the bottom and where you reply, then on the right column you either have 2 ads on top or some type of summary, then ad, then either related posts or other areas.

there are no borders, the adds have the same color and text type but larger font, and it all seems chaotically merged into one thing where you need to constantly sort out what you are viewing.

AnnOMaly

Hi Jan,

Click on the avatar of the person you want to PM.

You'll see 'so many posts' in 'so many topics' and then 'Message.'

Click on 'Message.'

And away you go.

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

adding a country's flag can't draw attention to any individual, unless of course you live in the Faroe Islands or the Falkland Islands have a different UK flag!

These are the types of flags we're talking about! There are posters on here, active and fading JWs who come from small countries who have come here for support and have said they do not want to reveal their country.

Last month, on this .com site, the flags of those small countries were displayed next to the very posts on which these members said they didn't want to reveal their specific country!

As I said before, one of these posters is a 'still in' JW with JW family and is in a country with fewer congregations than you can count on one hand. That person commented about how great it was to have found this forum and to be able to talk freely. I doubt that person would have talked so freely (or even joined at all) had they known that their little country would be on public display.

As it stands now, it will be a gross disregard for that person's anonymity and privacy to re-introduce the country flags against their express wishes.

If only ONE person is outed as a result of having their country's flag displayed, how can this forum stand on higher moral ground than AAWA during the FB fiasco?

Marvin Shilmer also raises a good point about those who post while traveling. Again, displaying country identifiers gives snoopers extra information about a person that they have no business knowing.

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

Mildred is of course free to be anonymous ... but can't be surprised that others who feel a need to protect their identities may chose not to share as much information with her. After all, what do they really know about her? She doesn't even want to reveal the country she is from. Why should they trust her?

Absolutely right. And those who have country identifiers may turn out to be untrustworthy too. I don't see how choosing NOT to disclose a country in public is less trustworthy than choosing TO disclose a country in public. This is the internet. We need to cautious with everyone.

IMO trust is a two way thing - we all share a little about ourselves in return for some trust in the other party. I think sharing the country we're located in is a small, small thing to share but provides some additional trust potential in return.

That's fine IN PRIVATE. There are several I've trusted that information with over the years. Having a default public country identifier removes the choice of who we want to trust with that information. You make it public and ANYONE, trustworthy or UNtrustworthy, is privy to that personal information. You remove the choice. That is wrong, that is irresponsible, for this kind of forum.

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

You can see there are some really small countries with small numbers of jws.

Indeed. There is a poster here, an active JW, who comes from a EU country where the number of congregations is fewer than the digits on your hand. Some months ago, he related a detailed situation, that he was particularly frustrated with, going on in his congregation, and he specifically said he did not want to disclose his country. Not having his country displayed gives him a certain amount of deniability.

Had he known that his country would be displayed, would he have told his story? If he still told his story, would he have changed some of the details to protect his anonymity? If Simon decides to add country flags as a default setting, he's removed that poster's choice, his sense of control over what information is shared, and at worst, jeopardized the poster's anonymity. Do we want to risk outing him?

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

That person cannot be too concerned if they never bothered to hide that information.

The play we had didn't involve dealing with identifying markers like country. If country had been displayed from the get-go, then we would have had the choice whether or not to join up in the first place and take that risk or whether we decided to obscure/withhold other identifying information. As it is, we have revealed certain information BECAUSE we kept our country private!

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

Why should this site assist you in possibly promoting a false persona?

Hello? We are 'asylum seekers' from the Watchtower organization and their representatives. 'Apostates' and 'doubters' have to hide who they are to survive, to be in control of their exit, to keep relationships with family and friends. This is supposed to be a safe place to express ourselves in anonymity while we work through and make sense of our doubts, our grief, our anger, our liberation.

Have you ever asked anyone where they are from but been dishonest about where you are from?

No.

It's not like we're dealing with the CIA or ISIS. There is no hit squad constantly on the lookout to track people down. They are JWs ... they don't even know what is going on in the local KH's most of the time.

No, we're not dealing with the CIA or ISIS, but I'm sure you remember how painful it was for your family to cut you off. This is the public internet. You do not know who is watching - a suspicious wife, friend, elder. There have been cases on here during my time who were outed by someone who just put two and two together.

Can you understand why I am skeptical that a country alone from what will inevitably be one from a list of 3 or 4 for +95% of posters would possibly identify you?

No I don't understand your skepticism. I'm astonished by it. Canada and the USA are vast oceans for a little fish to hide in. However, some members here are from small ponds and can more easily be flushed out. You cannot meaningfully share your JW experiences or offer support (which often involves some personal information) if your country identifier narrows down the odds of who you are likely to be. And if you cannot meaningfully and safely share your JW experiences or offer support here, what's the point of coming to
this forum?

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

I'm not just referring to Cedars. He's outed himself anyway so it doesn't matter now (but it did matter once!). It's others here who have specified they don't want their countries revealed. Hamsterbait has just voiced his misgivings and I can think of 4 others off the top of my head.

People should have the choice. Other forums, other ex-JW forums, give their members the choice. I was attracted to this forum 11 years ago because you gave that choice. I displayed my country for a long time as the non-existent Yugoslavia as a joke. Being 'country-less' has served me well in my online life and in my fade. I privately reveal my general whereabouts to those I trust. I do not want it displayed publicly for any Tom, Dick or Harry to see. I am under no obligation to divulge that information to the general public. They are not entitled to it.

Regardless of the objective risks, exiting JWs need to FEEL safe and in control of their own information on the forum, and removing their choice about whether or not to reveal their country will undermine their personal sense of security. Automatically displaying a country's flag, especially if it is that of a small country, will hand any potential snoopers an extra piece of identifying information on a plate.

Do the right thing by faders and your long-standing reputation in protecting members' privacy. Please make it an option whether to have one's country displayed or not.

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

ABSOLUTELY NOT! Apart from my own situation, I know for fact that there were/are ones on here from small EU countries who have specified that they do not want their specific countries revealed for fear of their anonymity being compromised or being plain outed by any savvy hounders. Also, please remember your own attitude to AAWA's FB privacy breaches.

It is of vital importance, on a forum such as this, that fading JWs looking for a safe place to vent, to talk about their personal experiences, can be in control of what information to reveal publicly and what information to remain private. You have assured members that you take their privacy seriously and will do your utmost to protect it.

Please do what other good forums do and MAKE IT A CHOICE whether to reveal one's location or not. Do not take that choice away from vulnerable faders.

Thank you.

31

New layout feels very chaotic

by EndofMysteries in

i don't really know how to describe the feeling but i'll give examples, but the new layout to me makes it feel tiring being on for too long.

1. there is the top menu, then a big add between that and the next part, a big ad between the bottom and where you reply, then on the right column you either have 2 ads on top or some type of summary, then ad, then either related posts or other areas.

there are no borders, the adds have the same color and text type but larger font, and it all seems chaotically merged into one thing where you need to constantly sort out what you are viewing.

AnnOMaly

Ahh. IE. Yeah, IE's glitchy on here. It's one to add to Simon's list.

31

New layout feels very chaotic

by EndofMysteries in

i don't really know how to describe the feeling but i'll give examples, but the new layout to me makes it feel tiring being on for too long.

1. there is the top menu, then a big add between that and the next part, a big ad between the bottom and where you reply, then on the right column you either have 2 ads on top or some type of summary, then ad, then either related posts or other areas.

there are no borders, the adds have the same color and text type but larger font, and it all seems chaotically merged into one thing where you need to constantly sort out what you are viewing.

AnnOMaly

Hmm.
Still doesn't work ...

Hmm. I'm on Chrome. Maybe you're on a different one?