does anyone else feel the same that they feel afraid when approached by a particular bro or sis, particularly one you like and who is really nice.
i feel that i may get them into trouble just for talking to me.
i don't want to drop them in it so i always keep the conversation short.
Hi SM62!
Ooh you poor thing!
I'm intrigued.
I know that one elder has warned a few people away from me...I am still in good standing (more or less), not DA or DFd, hubby is MS, one son doing really, go to odd meeting etc etc.
Why have ppl been warned away?
If you're not DAed/DFed, why on earth are the brothers treating you as a 'bad associate'?
OK, some in the cong are snobby and judgmental and false rumors get around, but why, do you think, have you been singled out?
hi everyone: after discussing this with the attrorney, we decided to conduct a new poll to assure we are able to contact newer members to the board, continue to validate the analysis being prepared, and to seek leads for new cases.
please respond if you have not participated in this poll before.
1. if you know of any jw molesters in any country of the world, please state how many.
Not including the ones on tv or in the papers (I'll PM you my area), the ones I know personally:
Molestors - 1 who's now deceased; 1 who's unfortunately still around; at least 3 (they were part of a 'ring' consisting of more 'brothers' - don't know exact total figure).
Victims - same order - at least 1; at least 2 (my relatives); at least 2 - still suffering horrendous psychological problems.
i had some thoughts last night in regards to compelled morality.
i'm sure it's nothing new, but i just thought i'd share, for my own sake if nothing else.
most of us here who do not believe that the bible is an inspired book reject it because it violates our natural moral sense.
I understand what you mean, Eu. Forced morality out of fear of punishment is not true moral choice.
A few years before I started to seriously question all things JWs held dear, I was struck by how Armageddon was used like a sword of Damacles over our heads and how similar that attitude was to other religions using the threat of hellfire to impose their will on others. I came to the conclusion that, assuming the concept of inherent immortality was untrue, if God saw fit to execute me at Armageddon (I'd prefer He didn't, but it's up to Him), then I'd be dead, wouldn't I? I wouldn't 'miss' anything - I wouldn't exist. While everyone was enjoying the blessings of Paradise, I wouldn't know anything about it. So, in that respect, the personal fear of Armageddon evaporated. What remained was moral choice. I chose to submit myself to God - whatever happened to me at the big A. Likewise, if I die a premature death or of old age: if the Bible is bunkum, and there is no Paradise, what will I know? I'll be dead anyway. Finito.
The key to free moral choice, IMHO, is love. Love of the Bible's message, love of the Person we think is behind the message and desiring His friendship, and love of our fellowman. Any benefits are a bonus. True friendships are not based on fear.
However, this raises a question. Do young children, although loving their parents, obey them out of that love, or out of fear of punishment? We can't get away from the fact that fear of penalties is often the strongest motivator for young children.
However, as they mature, we hope they'll see the love, wisdom and justice behind parental directives and they'll want to comply, rather than focussing on what would happen to them if they didn't. I suppose that analogy can be extended to those who choose to submit to a higher authority.
Sorry if this is a meandering post. You've got me thinking, Eu, you've certainly got me thinking.
even when i was a dub i felt this way.
i mean, i would just stand there at gatherings and feel that i was in my own world -- that, somehow, everyone else was "in" and i was "out.
" i never felt this way at formal gatherings -- meetings, assemblies, etc -- only in most social settings.
All my life.
I was different from the kids at the Hall. I was different from the kids at school. I'm still different from both the ppl at the Hall and 'worldly' ppl.
That's me. It'll continue to be me. I've grown to be happy with being different, not 'normal'. You will too, I'm sure.
i'm only posting this so as to get a buzz from looking forward to our trip to joy & steve's place in october.. i last went to the usa when i was 12 years old and i'm keen to know what differences to expect.
i know that their service industry is vastly superior to ours, someone told me that restaurant staff are actually helpful over there!.
umm, driving on the opposite side is going to be strange.
Don't forget that TAX is often added to the price of your purchases at the checkout.
The meals are HUGE. One will fill two ppl.
Don't bother taking your own teabags. The U.S. water doesn't always go well with them.
many thanks go to the following who made this possible:.
nosferatu for originally acquiring the recording and uploading it for everyone to hear.. hamas for hosting it so that even more people could listen to it;.
and finally to euphemism and odrade for their help in transcribing the entire talk with me.. without further ado, here is the transcript for the talk beware of the voice of strangers:.
Hi heathen
I get your point. But specifically it was the bit about being able to spot the subliminal/manipulative messages once one had got his special shades on!
I had my 'shades' on during the talk, so I could spot the techniques.
we all know that jesus is a pretty much-overlooked figure by the wbts.
they refuse to celebrate his birth for a number of convoluted reasons, which i refuse to argue.
but, it is curious that they celebrate the death of christ.
Welcome, badmutha!
my own misgivings about this observance.
So, what are your own misgivings about the observance? All that was listed in your first post? Or is there more?
franz stated something in this mind-blowing book which was definitely true for me.. he stated (this is a poor paraphrase) that very early on during a "study", witnesses can easily show what's in the bible regarding god's name, the condition of the dead, living on paradise earth, etc.
once these are proven to a person's satisfaction, when the study moves on to more complicated matters, it is just easier to accept what isn't understood on the basis that so far, everything has seemed true.
by now, there is an emotional investment -and everything up until now seemed fine, so.....................................let's swallow it all, and what is too difficult to swallow comfortably (blood?
Hi berylblue, all
It's actually physically painful. My stomach is in knots, I'm near tears.
I know EXACTLY what you mean. Even though I read Franz's books a few months ago, I'm still going through it. It's all part of the 're-birth' and, so I'm told, will get better as we learn to adjust. My stomach has been very upset the last few weeks and I feel agitated.
I've been thinking about that very subject you started you post with - how ppl know so little about the Bible when they are first contacted, that they often lap it up and take everything else on trust. No wonder ppl feel so attached to the 'Mother' who fed them. But it's the Bible that does the feeding and the Spirit that does the molding of character if we let it. Our loyalties get misplaced.
As others keep telling me, I'll tell you too. HANG IN THERE!
- A fellow traveller
Btw, for anyone wanting to contact Commentary Press - one reminder that was given to me, was that Ray Franz has delicate health and is in his '80's and so struggles to reply to all the mail he gets - it can take many weeks. Please bear that in mind?
to all my friends,.
i have good news and bad news.
bad news first, the judge is on vacation and will not give her ruling now until the middle of sept.. good news!
It was the watchtower lawyers who decided to come after me in court.
I'm LIVID!
Speechless!
You're in my prayers, Vicki.
many thanks go to the following who made this possible:.
nosferatu for originally acquiring the recording and uploading it for everyone to hear.. hamas for hosting it so that even more people could listen to it;.
and finally to euphemism and odrade for their help in transcribing the entire talk with me.. without further ado, here is the transcript for the talk beware of the voice of strangers:.
Does anyone remember the John Carpenter movie "They Live!" (1988)?
When people put on the special 'sunglasses', the reality was revealed and everything could be seen for what it really was (namely, the world was infested with aliens!).
But the particularly noteworthy part was how all the innocent-looking billboards contained subliminal messages in big letters, like "CONFORM", "SUBMIT", "DON'T THINK".
It reminds me of that.
<--- Ann with her "They Live" shades on!
