Posts by AnnOMaly

10

Can Spirit-Directed Organization Lie?

by abiather in

when god says something, it is like the meaning of traffic signal: red light means always stop.. when spirit-directed organization says something, it is like shining ever brighter till the full light of day, (proverb 4:18) and then it becomes dimmer and dimmer and at the end of the day darker and darkest, .

thus red lights meaning becomes start!.

yes, a spirit-directed organization can lie.

AnnOMaly

... Then the spirit is directing to Organization to lie. However, there's a problem with that. The story quoted above is about how the spirit deceived an apostate king of an apostate nation (Israel). Ahab was an enemy of YHWH's true prophets (Ahab surrounded himself with lots of false ones), thus an enemy of YHWH, and He wanted him dead.

The question is, is there a biblical precedent where the spirit lies to and deceives God's faithful servants? Post the example if you find one because I can't think of any instances.

If it can be established that God never deceives His own faithful servants, then:

1. The Org. isn't really spirit-directed,

Or

2. The Org. ignores spirit-direction (which makes it unfaithful),

Or

3. The spirit deceives the Org. because the Org. is God's enemy (cp. 2 Thess. 2:11).

224

Another problem for JW apologists

by Jeffro in

the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

AnnOMaly

The audience that received the word of Jehovah as recorded in Jeremiah 29 were in fact those exiles of the first deportation as I have already stated and they were now in exile in Babylon or other places such as Ezekiel. This prophecy also states that the time would come for their release from Exile and that Exile ended with the Return of the whole population in 537 BCE the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE. The simple fact of the matter is that there was a body of exiled people in Babylon as a result of Nebuchadmezzer's incursions into Jerusalem and all of these had to await the fulfillment of the seventy years otherwise you have several Exiles which of course becomes ridiculous.

So you agree that the letter of Jer. 29 was addressed to the exiles 'at Babylon' who had been taken with Jehoiachin. Therefore, the 'you' of v. 10 specifically refers to this group and not to the inhabitants of Jerusalem who had not been exiled at that point. Good.

Now we are back to the problem of God telling these exiles 'at Babylon' that they would be 'at Babylon' for 70 years. With WT chronology, they would be there 80 years (617 - 537 = 80). How do you account for that? These are the options:

1. God couldn't count.

2. God misled the exiles 'at Babylon' by giving them a false time-frame.

3. 'At Babylon' is a mistranslation and should be 'for Babylon' which better fits linguistically, contextually and historically.

Which one are you going for? It's a no-brainer, really, isn't it, Neil?

224

Another problem for JW apologists

by Jeffro in

the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

AnnOMaly

The Jehovahs Judgement link also flags up the question of the invasion of Egypt by the Babylonians, and as this historic event appears to be detailed in both Jeremiah and Ezekiel how does it fit with the redt of these chronologies?

The invasion of Egypt is, in the Bible, a prophecy or warning of what would happen. Unfortunately, the Bible is silent on how the details of those prophecies were fulfilled and to what extent. The only extra-biblical clue we have is a poorly preserved fragment of a tablet which says that Nebuchadnezzar, in his 37th year (568/7 BCE), campaigned against Pharaoh Amasis. There is nothing to tell us what the outcome of that campaign was. We do know from archaeology that Amasis reigned for a long time after Nebuchadnezzar's campaign and that the land of Egypt was prosperous. The Jehovah's Judgment site fills in any gaps with speculation touted as historical fact. Jeffro's site goes into more detail (scroll half way down).

Regarding Josiah - no, the year of his death can't be shifted. There are synchronisms with the Babylonian Chronicle - at least regarding the campaigns and battles between the army of Egypt and the Babylonians up at the Euphrates region which tally with the Bible's account.

2 Ki. 23:29; 2 Chron. 35:20f.; Babylonian Chronicle 3

224

Another problem for JW apologists

by Jeffro in

the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

AnnOMaly

Given the extremely low quality of the 'arguments' presented by 'scholar', I'm left wondering whether he doesn't really believe JW dogma at all, and that he's just playing devil's advocate to show just how ridiculous the JW dogma really is.

I've also periodically wondered the same thing LOL.

224

Another problem for JW apologists

by Jeffro in

the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

AnnOMaly

No, the Jewish Exile proper was not at the first deportation of the 'selected ones' of Judah in 617 BCE but the second deportation with the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE. I refer you to Rainer Albertz' Israel In Exile, 2003, on p.2:"Thus it is usual to have the exilic period begin with the destruction of Jerusalem and the final elimination of Judah as a state in 587/586 BCE, even though there was already a golah (group of exiles) in Babylonia in 598/597 BCE, and Gedaliah's attempted reform and a further deportation in 582 still lay in the future.(Jer.52:30) END OF STORY !!!!!!

(I knew this would be fun.) I couldn't care less what Albertz says. It is irrelevant to our discussion on Jer. 29:10 and its context. Seeing as you cannot accept that, under the WT time-line, Jehovah must have been misleading the the "Jewish population as a whole captive in Babylon" by informing them they would be "captive in Babylon" for only 70 years when He should have said 80, you have to make up another scenario to justify your untenable position: 'the exile only counts from the future "607" deportation.' As you well know (unless your imperfect memory has let you down again), this is absurd and Scripture itself falsifies your argument.

Jer. 29:1-5, 10.

These are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem to the rest of the elders among the exiled people, the priests, the prophets, and all the people, whom Neb·u·chad·nez′zar had taken into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon, after King Jec·o·ni′ah, the queen mother, the court officials, the princes of Judah and Jerusalem, and the craftsmen and the metalworkers had gone out of Jerusalem. ... It said:

“This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, says to all the exiled people, whom I have caused to go into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon, ‘Build houses and live in them. ...

... “For this is what Jehovah says, ‘When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled, I will turn my attention to you, and I will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.’

Whom was Jehovah addressing, Neil? Who was the 'you' in v. 10? The people still in Jerusalem not yet exiled? You want us to believe you instead of the Bible's own testimony?

I still do not understand why you persist in making yourself look like an idiot.

31

Today's Daily Text is a Convoluted Mess

by TTATTelder in

wednesday, december 11. his heart did not prove to be complete with jehovah.1 ki.

will we let solomons course be a warning example for us?

(1 ki.

AnnOMaly

I imagine those poor writers sitting before a blank page, and having to think up 365 of those gems, must go a bit bonkers after a bit.

They don't have to think of them. They're paragraphs recycled from the previous year's WT study articles. I'm guessing they lay the all the articles out and randomly stick a pin in 365 times. Hey presto, a book of daily texts.

93

Rolf Furuli's accusation about VAT 4956 being tampered with?

by possiblepineapple in

i'm sorry but can someone here explain what this is about.

i saw someone on here called scholar on here saying that it somehow destroyed both coj and hermann hunger but how?

how does rolf furuli know that it was tampered with?

AnnOMaly

PP, I've sent you a PM. Click on the little envelope next to your name at the top of the page.

224

Another problem for JW apologists

by Jeffro in

the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

AnnOMaly

It's already been covered, but repetition for emphasis, huh?

No the Jewish population as a whole captive in Babylon were advised that their period of Exile would be 70 years notwithstanding that for some captives who were deported 10 years earlier then their period would in fact be longer if they lived that long. There is no mention anywhere in Scripture of a 80 year Exile so your comment is superflous.

The "Jewish population as a whole captive in Babylon" was the one taken in 617 BCE (WT time), right? The Bible explicitly states that this deportation was by far the largest. The relatively minor '607' deportation hadn't happened yet, and may never have happened (hence the continued appeal by God to change their ways so they could remain peacefully in Jerusalem). Consequently, you are implying that God misled the "Jewish population as a whole captive in Babylon" by informing them they would be "captive in Babylon" for only 70 years when He should have said 80.

You cannot get around this glaring discrepancy ... although it's fun to watch you try.

93

Rolf Furuli's accusation about VAT 4956 being tampered with?

by possiblepineapple in

i'm sorry but can someone here explain what this is about.

i saw someone on here called scholar on here saying that it somehow destroyed both coj and hermann hunger but how?

how does rolf furuli know that it was tampered with?

AnnOMaly

possiblepineapple, I responded in your other thread.

Which book are you referring to?

Also did the WT count back 70 jewish years to get back to 607? Surely the difference between jewish and modern years would make a difference?

'Jewish years' were luni-solar years - the years were lunar-based but had to be 'corrected' every 3 years or so to stay in sync with the solar year (upon which our modern calendars are based). A normal year would be 354 days long, whereas a leap year would be 384 days long. It balances out - 70 years are 70 years.

9

In regards to the Hillah Stele?

by possiblepineapple in

sorry for another thread, however i saw on here that the two stele's disagree with each other, one saying adad guppi died on nab's 6th year and the other saying she died on his 9th regnal year.

is there truth to this or was it merely a translation error at the time?

i'm struggling to find info on this stuff so i come to the experts..

AnnOMaly

The Hillah Stele (Nabonidus. No. 8) is a different tablet to the Adad-Guppi Stele (Nabonidus No. 24).

The Hillah Stele talks about the Elhulhul temple in Harran, how Nabonidus had had a dream at the beginning of his reign where the gods told him to restore it and, after 54 years of being in ruins (Harran had been sacked in 609 BCE), it was restored. The inscription is useful because it gives a total number of years from the time Nabopolassar sacked the city and plundered the temple (cf. Chronicle 3) to Nabonidus' first year - 54 years, 609 to 555 BCE.

There are two copies of the Adad-Guppi inscription - one very damaged and another better preserved. Both versions have '9th year.' The '6th year' is a misprint in ANET.