Posts by AnnOMaly

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

Kate, the old ones who may choose to leave will still have been 'force-flagged,' and any potential repercussions will remain; any damage will have been done.

As Simon commented 2 years ago after the first time the country identifier problem came to light:

[EdenOne] And yes, of course, to reveal the geographical location of a poster is just as serious. Especially if that country is a small country with only a few congregations, where basically every JW knows every other JW.
[Simon] I want to answer this in more detail:
While the overwhelming majority of posters are from large countries and regions that cover a large physical area or population (e.g. US states) I take privacy very seriously and obviously rectified things immediately and apologise for it happening. It was due to me combining two code modules: part from the current site which let people set the region and country in their profile and part from an anti-spammer module which identified regions and countries from an IP address - at some point I referenced the 'wrong' region/country pair to update a profile and didn't notice because all the ones I randomly checked just happened to have their location already set anyway (which matched).
The reason for not 'announcing' it was to not draw attention in case of a very slight risk that someone could possibly be identified from it even though I don't think it's likely, if even possible (it would neecd other information to be exposed as well). Unfortunately, Cedars seems to feel it is a risk worth taking by highlighting it.
I've been busy building in some other features to help protect people's identities further and ensure this site continues to be a safe place for already-out or questioning-JWs to visit. [underlining mine]

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/250655/have-just-been-disinvited-my-brothers-wedding-thanks-aawa?page=3

Simon recognized that there was a very slight risk of somebody being outed by the country identifiers and that, because he took posters' privacy very seriously, the issue was quickly resolved, the flags removed and an apology given.

It would be nice to see a return to the same level of care and concern about individual posters' privacy expressed two years ago. The risks may be 'very slight,' but if a force-added country flag contributes to just ONE person being outed, then there has been a dereliction of duty by this forum to do its utmost to protect members' identities. It's one thing for a poster to out themselves by being careless. It's another for a forum to willfully display a piece of personal information that a poster wishes to remain private.

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

I spoke to future posts in my previous comments, but I do not know if it is a fact that previous posts will be flagged with a country. Does the geolocator look for where you were and where you are when it adds the country flag to your posts?

Yes. All the flags that appeared the last two times I saw them on this site were on every user's post back to year dot.

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

As for bjork, the point is that the flag tells a snooping elder from iceland who of the thousands of people are worth examining in details.

100s of people. There are currently only 7 congregations in Iceland ...

Heck Ann - you are using the same avatar on at least 5 different websites - if I could be arsed I bet I could track you down just from your avatar....

Besty, you already know where I'm from :-P

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

WMF - Nobody holds a gun to a poster's head, true. But the poster can CHOOSE which personal information to disclose and which personal information to keep private. Nobody needs to know their reasons for choosing one way or another.

By having country flags on display by default, Simon is taking away the CHOICE from the poster and potentially contributing to the exposure of active and fading JWs from smaller countries.

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

... who recognizing they live in a small country are more circumspect with posting significant personally identifiable information.

People from small countries would have been more circumspect with posting certain identifiable information if they already knew in advance that their small country would be out there on public view. There was no indication upon joining that one day a significant piece of identifying information that they chose to keep private would actually be shared.

31

New layout feels very chaotic

by EndofMysteries in

i don't really know how to describe the feeling but i'll give examples, but the new layout to me makes it feel tiring being on for too long.

1. there is the top menu, then a big add between that and the next part, a big ad between the bottom and where you reply, then on the right column you either have 2 ads on top or some type of summary, then ad, then either related posts or other areas.

there are no borders, the adds have the same color and text type but larger font, and it all seems chaotically merged into one thing where you need to constantly sort out what you are viewing.

AnnOMaly

Hi Jan,

Click on the avatar of the person you want to PM.

You'll see 'so many posts' in 'so many topics' and then 'Message.'

Click on 'Message.'

And away you go.

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

adding a country's flag can't draw attention to any individual, unless of course you live in the Faroe Islands or the Falkland Islands have a different UK flag!

These are the types of flags we're talking about! There are posters on here, active and fading JWs who come from small countries who have come here for support and have said they do not want to reveal their country.

Last month, on this .com site, the flags of those small countries were displayed next to the very posts on which these members said they didn't want to reveal their specific country!

As I said before, one of these posters is a 'still in' JW with JW family and is in a country with fewer congregations than you can count on one hand. That person commented about how great it was to have found this forum and to be able to talk freely. I doubt that person would have talked so freely (or even joined at all) had they known that their little country would be on public display.

As it stands now, it will be a gross disregard for that person's anonymity and privacy to re-introduce the country flags against their express wishes.

If only ONE person is outed as a result of having their country's flag displayed, how can this forum stand on higher moral ground than AAWA during the FB fiasco?

Marvin Shilmer also raises a good point about those who post while traveling. Again, displaying country identifiers gives snoopers extra information about a person that they have no business knowing.

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

Mildred is of course free to be anonymous ... but can't be surprised that others who feel a need to protect their identities may chose not to share as much information with her. After all, what do they really know about her? She doesn't even want to reveal the country she is from. Why should they trust her?

Absolutely right. And those who have country identifiers may turn out to be untrustworthy too. I don't see how choosing NOT to disclose a country in public is less trustworthy than choosing TO disclose a country in public. This is the internet. We need to cautious with everyone.

IMO trust is a two way thing - we all share a little about ourselves in return for some trust in the other party. I think sharing the country we're located in is a small, small thing to share but provides some additional trust potential in return.

That's fine IN PRIVATE. There are several I've trusted that information with over the years. Having a default public country identifier removes the choice of who we want to trust with that information. You make it public and ANYONE, trustworthy or UNtrustworthy, is privy to that personal information. You remove the choice. That is wrong, that is irresponsible, for this kind of forum.

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

You can see there are some really small countries with small numbers of jws.

Indeed. There is a poster here, an active JW, who comes from a EU country where the number of congregations is fewer than the digits on your hand. Some months ago, he related a detailed situation, that he was particularly frustrated with, going on in his congregation, and he specifically said he did not want to disclose his country. Not having his country displayed gives him a certain amount of deniability.

Had he known that his country would be displayed, would he have told his story? If he still told his story, would he have changed some of the details to protect his anonymity? If Simon decides to add country flags as a default setting, he's removed that poster's choice, his sense of control over what information is shared, and at worst, jeopardized the poster's anonymity. Do we want to risk outing him?

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

AnnOMaly

That person cannot be too concerned if they never bothered to hide that information.

The play we had didn't involve dealing with identifying markers like country. If country had been displayed from the get-go, then we would have had the choice whether or not to join up in the first place and take that risk or whether we decided to obscure/withhold other identifying information. As it is, we have revealed certain information BECAUSE we kept our country private!