Posts by Onager

17

My Current Views About God, Relgion, JWs and Life In General

by pale.emperor in

this past year has been the most life changing year anyone could ever go through.

waking up, leaving the cult, separating from my wife, research, research, research, reading, pondering etc.

and i've found myself having to re-learn and re-evaluate everything i thought i knew.

Onager

1. What about a hateful god that enjoys misery? Zero God or Loving God aren't the only options...

2. Humans create gods. So humans create gods which have worse morals than themselves. What's that all about?!

3. I think that living responsibly makes a human being good.

4. I never thought of it quite that way, but you're absolutely right. Jesus is an apostate!

5. Paul was a dick.

6. I struggled with this for a long time. I called the Watchtower society a High Control Religion for ages. But gradually it has become inescapable that it is a cult.

43

Atheism would not appeared if …

by venus in

· if religions were immune to division.

· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.

· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.

Onager

Hi David Jay,

My question was for you particularly and anyone else generally.

" I don't subscribe to the concept of debating about concepts which have no practical application."

So... You're Anti-semantic? :)

"I was not whatever you said before, and thus am not anything (having to do with that subject) now."

That's the whole of my point, You're not atheist before you are aware of the concept of god, you're only atheist once you are aware and make a decision that the concept is false.

This might be hair splitting semantics, but it's where I disagree with Richard Dawkins. I don't believe children are born atheist. I believe they are born innocent.

(and fwiw, I've loved Jewish people ever since I toured Israel. I just don't like the Israeli government.)

43

Atheism would not appeared if …

by venus in

· if religions were immune to division.

· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.

· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.

"Her family is entirely composed of atheists. Like the Cambridge Study, none of them, including my wife, became atheists due to religion. They never belonged to one. Their parents never did either."

Sorry David Jay, that's how I interpreted this comment of yours.

So, as this thread is about the origins of atheism, having read the sentence in my previous email:

You are aboqticist now, but what were you before you read my post?

Or did you wig out as soon as you read "David_Jay says"?

43

Atheism would not appeared if …

by venus in

· if religions were immune to division.

· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.

· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.

Onager

"Onager,

If belief in God were creating good citizens, everyone would have accepted God even if he were not real. Everyone accepted electricity without even labeling it American electricity, UK electricity, Russian electricity …etc. because electricity is good.

If belief in God were not creating good citizens, some would doubt the existence of God which means atheism would only appear after decay of theism.

4 hours ago venus"

Venus,

Er, You know that the UK has different electricity to the USA don't you?

The gods are humans attempts at explaining the world around us. At the moment that one person ascribed a supernatural cause to a natural phenomenon and someone else didn't believe him, atheism was born.

David_Jay says that the state of everyone before this was also atheism but I think it is something purer than that. Proto-atheism maybe. What is it called if you don't have a belief in gods but you also don't even have a concept of gods to not have a belief in?

For example read this sentence:

There is an alien race called the Boqtic. They are like insects in appearance and are very good mechanics.

Now, having read that sentence you (I hope!) do not believe that the Boqtic exist. You are Aboqticist.

But what was your belief before you read that sentence.?

17

What the "Worldly" media has to say about the proposed Russian ban of JWs

by NikL in

jw
friends

interesting to read the reports from around the world.

i doubt many jws have read any of them.. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russian-government-jehovahs-witnesses-extremist-group-lawsuit-supreme-court-a7634671.html.

russian authorities threatened to close jehovah’s witnesses administrative centre last march, when they issued a formal warning to the congregation that the “religious association will be subject to liquidation” if it failed to eliminate within two months the violations identified by the government as “extremist”.

Onager

Someone should tell Putin not to ban them, just remove any tax exemption from them.

That would achieve his goal much more effectively.

18

The Russian letters

by purrpurr in

so all the jw's i know are practically wetting their pants in excitement over the russian letters they are sending out.

they seem to have this insane idea that putin's office will be pulled sky high with all these letters and they have this image in their imaginations of him having to open and read every letter (!).

also all the jw's i know have all put their name and address on the letter... which couldn't have any repercussions of course (!

Onager

I agree with tiki. I can't imagine a scenario where this has a positive effect on the situation.

43

Atheism would not appeared if …

by venus in

· if religions were immune to division.

· if scriptures were immune to scientific errors.

· if religious leaders were immune to hypocrisy.

Onager

My feeling is that it developed this way:

1. No belief in gods

2. Animism

3. Polytheism

4. Monotheism

I believe that the first atheists would have appeared at stage 2.

"Zog say touch special stone, catch much mammoth. Me say Zog full of woolly rhino shit."

There has to be a concept of a thing before you can disagree with it. There would be no Fox hunt saboteurs without fox hunting.

6

ACRONYMS-

by jwnevergiveup in

jw
friends

newbie here.

reading forums and come across acronyms.

some are very obvious but one is not so far.

Onager

"Please leave the Almighty out of this. "

The Almighty what??

315

Atheism = self defeating.

by towerwatchman in

atheism = self defeating.

first may we define our terms.

the word atheism comes literally from the greek, alpha the negative and theos [for god], therefore “negative god” or there is no god.

Onager

They're not responding or defending their position are they? Just another drive by sensationalist Troll twat.

if they *were* still here I'd say that an argument that relies on your own special definition of a word is a bad argument.

If you reverse the OP's definition, so that Theists have absolute knowledge that god does exist then you:

a) Make faith impossible

b) Make all theists as omniscient as god.

35

New member + anyone attended/seen the Zone Visit?

by Isambard Crater in

jw
friends

i'm a new member so wanted to say 'hi'.

i live in the u.k, was born in, fell away as an unbaptised publisher, got baptised in my 30s for reasons i'm retrospectively unsure of, and lost my faith about five years ago around the time of the original a.r.c.

now, being unable to leave is making me physically, emotionally and mentally ill.. i have been visiting this forum for a couple of years and wanted to post my first message to see if anyone has attended, heard or watched the zone visit broadcast thing happening this month?

Onager

Hi Isambard Crater,

I'm also in the UK so I wouldn't have seen the broadcast yet.

I also wouldn't be seen dead inside a kingdom hall so that's a double whammy!