I'm atheist and anti-theist and I wouldn't crucify you (I'm assuming you mean verbally!). Although I'm opposed to all religions in principle, if it can actually help an individual then I agree with it. In fact I have a pub friend who I have given a lift to church a few times. My wife and I even went to his confirmation ceremony, because it was beneficial to his well being, which trumps my ideology and abstract principles.
Onager
JoinedPosts by Onager
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13
Pick the low-hanging fruit
by stillin ini happened to be standing nearby when an outside contractor, out of the goodness of his heart, approached a fellow worker and invited him to his church.
the fellow worker is a known problem-drinker and actually, probably could use some discipline in his life.. anyhow, after a gushing account about how vibrant his church is and what a great guy the preacher is, he said that the lord moved him to speak with the problem-drinker.
well, i'm feeling left out, neglected, dejected and finally chimed in.
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How much longer before the majority figure out the bible is not from God?
by I believe in overlapping inin 1900 the estimated population of the world was 1,610,625,741.
the population of christians worldwide was around 34.5% of world population..
the population of atheist was -% or not even 1% of the world population.
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Onager
Probably so Onager but I understand there are atheist groups in USA but no such communities in Britain. None on the internet that I have found so far.
How about a news headline: Russell's orbiting tea-pot dicovered!"Russell's teapot found! - Tastes delicious says Buzz Aldrin."
Um, Richard Dawkins is English isn't he? I don't think he just sits in his bedroom, arguing with his pot plants. Mind you, when I looked up the "Brights" organisation, which is linked to Dawkins in my mind, it's American based.
I guess I don't have any evidence to refute your argument, it just feels to me like everything American is writ large. The UK could have 5 atheist organisations, but America will have 500. Plus the organisations in the UK will be distributing a monthly newletter by posting photocopied sheets to their members (hand delivered by Doris on her trusty bicycle), while the American organisations will have their own TV channel! :)
"In other news, the missing link between humans and monkeys has been discovered! Asked for a comment, the Archbishop of Canterbury said: This proves nothing, where is the missing link between the missing link and the monkeys and, also of course, the missing link between that missing link and the original missing link? Eh??"
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How much longer before the majority figure out the bible is not from God?
by I believe in overlapping inin 1900 the estimated population of the world was 1,610,625,741.
the population of christians worldwide was around 34.5% of world population..
the population of atheist was -% or not even 1% of the world population.
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Onager
Half banana
I find it interesting that in the USA the tendency of atheists is to want to form an anti-god community and be proud to wear a badge of an Atheist capitalised.I don't think that is a USA phenomenon, but a human one generally. There just happen to be a greater number of atheists identifiable as American, because there are so many Americans!
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For any that still believe in God and Jesus, what is your reasoning on this matter?
by BourneIdentity inin the old testament, god was always full of anger and jealousy resulting in the murder of millions of people.
we’re told jesus perfectly reflects his fathers qualities.
why in the new testament does jesus show no hint of anger and jealousy and wanting to kill people?
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Onager
Hi Giles Gray,
I was responding to this comment from Page 6 of this thread by TTWSYF:
Respectfully, although you are right as far as each of us are not witness to personal and profound intimate communication / revelation with God, there is still a large amount of evidence.
One example of evidence could be the way the apostles and 90% of the early Christians leaders were tortured to death is evidence. Why die for a lie? To what end?I thought that the argument that I was responding to was that there is evidence for the existence of God and the first example is the eye witnesses who died as martyrs. I'm not sure what's really going on now since TTWSYF said:
So, I never said that the martyrdom of these witnesses proves that God and the bible are true. My position was/is that their martyrdom DOES prove that Jesus Christ DID rise from the grave because of their testimony.For me, personally, this is as Thomas Paine said, all hearsay. We know, for a fact, that people have died for beliefs that are incorrect (because people have died for beliefs which contradict each other), so the only reason to accept that these accounts are correct is faith that these particular people are telling the actual truth, not just truth as they see it.
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Onager
Miriam Margolyes.
My hero. Straight talking, no nonsense, very funny.
My Grandmother.
Actually would be good to get her back from the dead a few months before the dinner so she could make some of her amazing chutneys and Elderflower champagne for the dinner. Also she could get to see my son (who would be serving so I can get him in too).
Christopher Hitchens
Legend.
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For any that still believe in God and Jesus, what is your reasoning on this matter?
by BourneIdentity inin the old testament, god was always full of anger and jealousy resulting in the murder of millions of people.
we’re told jesus perfectly reflects his fathers qualities.
why in the new testament does jesus show no hint of anger and jealousy and wanting to kill people?
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Onager
Thanks Giles Gray, yes, that was what I was getting at. The bible is the work of men and it's god is a construction of those that wrote it and those that came after.
My thinking is based on Thomas Paine's Age of Reason, which you can read here:
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What current movies have you seen? Give a little review if possible, aye or nay
by blondie innewest mib next for me.
i brought myself up-to-date on the older ones on cable.
here's a trailer:.
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Onager
Last movie at the cinema I saw was Lego Movie 2. I really enjoyed it. There's appeal for all ages in there, the storyline has progression from the first movie, the world has developed and the characters too. It was a bit messy compared to the first movie, which was tight, but I still enjoyed it enough to buy the dvd.
The next movie we're going to see will be the new Shaun the Sheep movie, Farmageddon. The cinema is so expensive that we only go to movies that my 4 year old wants to see. I wait for my films to come out on dvd...
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If you saw a governing body member being pummeled would you help them?
by Tenacious inbefore you answer; .
think about how they could care less how many families are broken up just to retain their power.
how they could care less if members are driven to suicide because of the deep programming and severe depression or strained family situations.. how they would rather let members die in order to retain their power and refuse to acknowledge their faulty bible reasoning regarding blood.. i could go on and on and on.
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Onager
Of course, if you did step in and help them you might get a nice expensive bottle of whiskey as a thank-you...
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For any that still believe in God and Jesus, what is your reasoning on this matter?
by BourneIdentity inin the old testament, god was always full of anger and jealousy resulting in the murder of millions of people.
we’re told jesus perfectly reflects his fathers qualities.
why in the new testament does jesus show no hint of anger and jealousy and wanting to kill people?
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Onager
TTWSYF: I am saying that the apostles were different in so much as they [and dozens of others] were actual witnesses. They were not convinced because of someone else's words. They believed because THEY SAW.
You really don't see the diff?
I'm not being a smart-alec, but I really don't see any difference. Think about it though, every muslim feels the same about their prophet and companions that got martyred. That's billions of people who feel exactly the same way that you feel about your story, about their story. They say that their prophet did miracles, they say that their eye witnesses believed and had faith to the extent of being martyred.
If you had been born in rural Pakistan, what do you think the odds are that you would be arguing just as strongly for the truth of Islam, using the same arguments you are using now?
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For any that still believe in God and Jesus, what is your reasoning on this matter?
by BourneIdentity inin the old testament, god was always full of anger and jealousy resulting in the murder of millions of people.
we’re told jesus perfectly reflects his fathers qualities.
why in the new testament does jesus show no hint of anger and jealousy and wanting to kill people?
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Onager
TTWSYF:
I'm not denying other martyrs.
I am denying that your example can compare to the earliest christian martyrs who claimed that ' Jesus indeed did rise from the dead after 3 days and I heard him say that''
That was what the apostles and dozens of others proclaimed unto death They were witnesses of the risen Lord and could not deny it. It wasn't only a faith thing, it was a witness thing too. Convinced by witnessing his resurrection and proclaiming it. Certainly you can see how that is a possible significant difference to someone dying because of anothers' words.Close companions of Jesus and close companions of Muhammad who both die as martyrs are only different if you start with the claim that Jesus was special. You're trying to prove that Jesus was special though, so you can't start with that.
All of this only goes to prove my point, though, that everyone who professes a faith in any god, primarily has faith in other men first.
Faith that the men who wrote the books were telling the truth.
Faith that the martyrs were right to die for those beliefs.
Faith that every translator, printer, compiler and interpreter did so honestly and without changing the meaning for their own purposes.
Faith that your parents or whoever first told you these beliefs were true wasn't misled.
All believers faith in their god rests on top of a massive pyramid of faith in fallible humans. Humans that we know for a fact were not perfect, were subject to human failings such as a desire for power, control or fame. Again you might say that God preserves his word down through the ages, but that doesn't work because it's this monolithic pyramid of human's version of God that you are invoking.You can't use what's being proposed to prove the proposition.