Posts by outbutnotdown

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

outbutnotdown

LT,

You said:

Well, you're welcome to try, but it's hard to discredit something that someone has personally experienced. It's like me trying to tell you your mother doesn't exist!

To me , there is no correlation to a 100% proven fact....(and yes, I asked my mommy again and she said that I am her child...... you may know that that is bullsh*t, since my mommy hasn't spoken to me in years, but the point is still valid... )..... and faith. I respect your faith and your freedom to believe it, however, when it comes right down to it, your faith is no more provable than my lack of faith, (as you would consider it.)

Brad

86

Suicide.... how do you view people who "attempt" it?

by outbutnotdown in

jw
friends

anybody who has read my other recent posts...... don't worry, this is absolutely not about me feeling that way... i'm very happy, thanks..... .

my roommate, however, had a friend who committed suicide a couple of weeks ago and she just broke up with her boyfriend and he was saying things similar to what the guy who committed suicide awhile back was saying just before he took his life.

it is freaking her out.

outbutnotdown

Brenda,

Thank you for your comments. I agree wholeheartedly. My question of "who is responsble?" was not intended to suggest that any one person or persons is/are responsible. It was intended to elicit a response much like your last one.

Suicide is a very sad part of human life, but it won't ever go away..... it just is...... however, the more we try to prevent it from happening and the more we understand those who try it and those who are unwitting victims, the better we are as a society.

Thank you very much for what you have shared with us here.

Brad

86

Suicide.... how do you view people who "attempt" it?

by outbutnotdown in

jw
friends

anybody who has read my other recent posts...... don't worry, this is absolutely not about me feeling that way... i'm very happy, thanks..... .

my roommate, however, had a friend who committed suicide a couple of weeks ago and she just broke up with her boyfriend and he was saying things similar to what the guy who committed suicide awhile back was saying just before he took his life.

it is freaking her out.

outbutnotdown

Flower,

No, I am not a "flip-flopper". There is a HUGE difference between SOME and ALL.

DY's statement had some truth to it because it was not an ABSOLUTE statement. The way that Dede worded it, as an ABSOLUTE, made it virtually impossible to be true. I am not laying blame on Dede. I am simply saying that ABSOLUTE statements leave themselves open to criticism, since the person who posted the ABSOLUTE statement could not have possibly experienced every angle. To be perfectly honest, when I used the word SOLELY in my statement earlier I was guilty of making it an absolute statement and I attempted to explain how I made an error in judgement when I did so.

Tell me if you feel that I am wrong, but I haven't seen you admit that you made an error in judgement yet here, without excusing it with some other person's "wrong" questioning tactics.

Brad

86

Suicide.... how do you view people who "attempt" it?

by outbutnotdown in

jw
friends

anybody who has read my other recent posts...... don't worry, this is absolutely not about me feeling that way... i'm very happy, thanks..... .

my roommate, however, had a friend who committed suicide a couple of weeks ago and she just broke up with her boyfriend and he was saying things similar to what the guy who committed suicide awhile back was saying just before he took his life.

it is freaking her out.

outbutnotdown

Flower, you said:

I qualified an earlier post of mine by saying that I hadnt had time to read through all the responses. I was commenting solely on the question in the original post which asked how we view people who attempt or commit suicide. As I already said my answer would be different if you asked about those 'left behind'. I can and do sympathize with both sides.

Yet, that statement was said in order to try to suggest that this one was not said in poor judgement:

Most support assistance is in place to prevent the act from happening in the first place which IMO makes a lot more sense than saying 'forget about them, they are as good as dead anyway but after they do it lets have lots more support for those left behind'. That is in essence what your previous post mentioned

The statement above is a complete contradiction to the other one quoted. In no way can you suggest that this second quote was based SOLELY on the topic posted. Absolutely nothing had been said about prevention before you said that. That gross insinuation and accusation was yours alone and YOU need to take responsibility for it.

Denial does not eliminate a prior error in judgement.

Brad

86

Suicide.... how do you view people who "attempt" it?

by outbutnotdown in

jw
friends

anybody who has read my other recent posts...... don't worry, this is absolutely not about me feeling that way... i'm very happy, thanks..... .

my roommate, however, had a friend who committed suicide a couple of weeks ago and she just broke up with her boyfriend and he was saying things similar to what the guy who committed suicide awhile back was saying just before he took his life.

it is freaking her out.

outbutnotdown

Dede, you said:

I do not for one second think that all people who FAIL at a suicide attempt are " just making a cry for help".

I can't agree with you more. The words ALL and JUST, make it virtiually impossible, and, IMO falls into that category.

This brings me to the next topic..... who is responsible?

Brad

86

Suicide.... how do you view people who "attempt" it?

by outbutnotdown in

jw
friends

anybody who has read my other recent posts...... don't worry, this is absolutely not about me feeling that way... i'm very happy, thanks..... .

my roommate, however, had a friend who committed suicide a couple of weeks ago and she just broke up with her boyfriend and he was saying things similar to what the guy who committed suicide awhile back was saying just before he took his life.

it is freaking her out.

outbutnotdown

Flower, you said:

Most support assistance is in place to prevent the act from happening in the first place which IMO makes a lot more sense than saying 'forget about them, they are as good as dead anyway but after they do it lets have lots more support for those left behind'. That is in essence what your previous post mentioned

This not at all what I was suggesting. I am in absolute complete agreement that prevention is the best policy. The very way that I live my life is proof that I believe in suicide prevention. Creating a happy, peaceful environment for my four kids is the best way that I can do the biggest part to "prevent" suicide.

This "topic", however, is not about prevention, it's about the "after the fact", irregardless of the circumstances. Therefore, I never mentioned a word about prevention until now. Don't make an insinuation that my opinion is that we shouldn't care about preventing it or even about caring about people who do attempt it. When I used the word SOLELY it was coming more from emotions than logic. However, rather than you accepting that correction on my part, you continue to throw insults rather than looking at the big, REAL picture of the other points I and others here are trying to make.

Doubtfully Yours makes a point, that people who don't succeed are just making a cry for help. I'm sure that many people out here can attest to that point being true as well. Instead of accepting that point as being legit you try to refute it by showing that when you didn't succeed, it wasn't because you didn't do your best. Hey, I don't think anyone here will say that they wish you were better informed about the best options to kill yourself, since you'd be dead... and that's not nice!!!!

I find this whole thing truly ironic. You accuse me and others of putting things into our own "little boxes", "lumping" things and, in general, (if you can, for a moment refrain from telling me not to "generalize") you are questioning everybody's viewpoint that is not EXACTLY like yours. What's that saying about the kettle and the teapot?

I feel for what you went through as much I do anybody else who has gone through it and in no way am I retracting that empathy, however I will still get back to my point awhile ago about the fact that you seem to not have too much empathy for others.

Brad

86

Suicide.... how do you view people who "attempt" it?

by outbutnotdown in

jw
friends

anybody who has read my other recent posts...... don't worry, this is absolutely not about me feeling that way... i'm very happy, thanks..... .

my roommate, however, had a friend who committed suicide a couple of weeks ago and she just broke up with her boyfriend and he was saying things similar to what the guy who committed suicide awhile back was saying just before he took his life.

it is freaking her out.

outbutnotdown

(((((((((((((((LyinEyes)))))))))))))))

Very Moving!!! It honestly brought tears to my eyes.... partly for you and partly for me.... very similar experiences you and I have had.

Sounds like you have gone through all the stages of recovery already. Good for you.

Brad

Edited to add:

LyinEyes,

It seems to me that you have been very honest with yourself about the whole unfortunate circumstance. You're damn right you had a right to be angry, but more importantly you've seen it through your mothers' eyes as well. IMHO, no one can be expected to do more than that.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

outbutnotdown

Why didn't God create Adam and Eve simultaneously? Why did he create Adam where Adam was capable of becoming lonely? God was certainly not very good at seeing the big picture, was he?

Brad

My first intelligent question ever and Gumby's trying to take credit for it.

Ozzie said:

Now then Grumbles, stop putting words in God's mouth! Where does it say that this was a new thought to God?

Cheers, Ozzie (accuracy in reporting class)

Ozzie,

What are you implying? That this was not a new thought, but that God PLANNED on Adam getting lonely and creating Eve was all part of the Master Plan? I've been lonely before and I don't think it is a PERFECT feeling, so could Adam have been perfect before Eve was created?

Brad (of the "I'll convert these Christians to agnosticism one of these days" class)

86

Suicide.... how do you view people who "attempt" it?

by outbutnotdown in

jw
friends

anybody who has read my other recent posts...... don't worry, this is absolutely not about me feeling that way... i'm very happy, thanks..... .

my roommate, however, had a friend who committed suicide a couple of weeks ago and she just broke up with her boyfriend and he was saying things similar to what the guy who committed suicide awhile back was saying just before he took his life.

it is freaking her out.

outbutnotdown

Flower,

Maybe we should focus less on helping the suicidal people and spend the time and the money SOLELY on the victims of suicide. They are truly the innocent ones in the matter.

I shouldn't have used the word SOLELY. I meant to emphasize the "less" part as far as the efforts put into helping the suicidal compared to the other people involved. It doesn't represent how I truly feel about people who do go to the depths of despair and contemplate, or succeed at suicide. I was trying to make the point that we tend to forget about the other people involved more than we should. Despite the fact that I have gone through this crazy sh*t, even I have found myself swayed towards believing that the families left behind are less than what they were before the suicide.

Thanks for the opinion, but no, I don't lump everybody who attempts suicide into that little box that you speak of. (I realize that my father was, unfortunately "crazy" as you say.) I think if you read the other posts that I have made you would have realized that, rather than picking on one word that I used. I feel for people who have been in that state. I was there once myself, and it's not only for that reason that I feel for them. It's the fact that I realized, no matter how BAD it seemed at the time, it would not be fair to "the other people" if I went through with it. Besides that, I learned that the hell that I was in was mostly created by myself.

I've learned to create heaven on earth...... and I'm very happy that through therapy I am in complete control of my state of mind, not other people or incidents that have happened in the past.

I will state though, that from your original post and the last one, you would still do well to consider a little more the "other people" involved. I'm not sure if you career is in that field or not, but you seem to rush to judgement a little quickly.

People who assume its a ploy or attention seeking stunt or manipulation simply have never really been there. Some people think they are so important that everything someone does must be about them. Their attitude is if someone tries to end their life it must be just to hurt me somehow. Thats just because most people cant comprehend feeling that bad. But it is possible to truly believe that it is the best thing for everyone.

Brad

86

Suicide.... how do you view people who "attempt" it?

by outbutnotdown in

jw
friends

anybody who has read my other recent posts...... don't worry, this is absolutely not about me feeling that way... i'm very happy, thanks..... .

my roommate, however, had a friend who committed suicide a couple of weeks ago and she just broke up with her boyfriend and he was saying things similar to what the guy who committed suicide awhile back was saying just before he took his life.

it is freaking her out.

outbutnotdown

Czar,

I feel for you. I don't know, but to me, the only for sure thing about life is life itself. I cherish it, respect it and try to make the most out of it, despite the obstacles thrown at us. I used to be, and sometimes still am one of the people you describe:

I sometimes think that the suicides are the smartest, bravest people on the planet... they looked into the abyss and shrugged indifferently. They took their ball and went home.

I am not completely against suicide. I think if they want to do it, they will find a way anyway, so why not let them? From what most peoples' opinions are they are beyond help other than helping themselves anyway. However, at what point do we lay the law down, so to speak, to prevent them from hurting others, especially the children?

Maybe we should focus less on helping the suicidal people and spend the time and the money SOLELY on the victims of suicide. They are truly the innocent ones in the matter.

Brad