Posts by Ocean1111

3

Is It Spirituality or Mentality?

by Chris Tann in

there are many religious people who say they pray for holy spirit and feel better.

some who are over stressed will say they keep praying for a calm disposition until the stress and anxiety disappears,claiming it is god's spirit.

others will ask jesus into their hearts and feel an overwhelming sensation of peace and clarity.

Ocean1111

Even in materiality there is obviously a "spiritual" threshold so there must be a balance. Meaning "energy" locked in material structures, like an atom, and down into the sub-atomic, is very hard to determine the "materiality" of. The atom itself is a bit of a high speed high energy "illusion", as is materiality really a spiritual based illusion. Humans have barely scratched the surface as to where the "material" and "spiritual" really over lap, and due to the energetic basis of all "materiality" it is greatly accessible to "spiritual" energy alteration.

Now if we construct the atomic pieces into a human brain, we start to understand the geomteric complexities humans are far from understanding and which require a complete understanding of to even start to get into the "spiritual" worlds. Man cannot even clearly define "material" not to mention the sub-components of the "material world" below the atom in "scale", so what really is then "spiritual"? There has to be spiritual components that make up materiality, because eventually even the material is just packets of various energies, and what can give an energy it "energy"?

If energy cannot be created or destroyed, then what is the big bang? a massive creation of energy? And so man lives in an enigmatic paradox of conundrums in the quest for "knowledge" beyond human, beyond universal, imo, and must settle on error as truth, until the truth can be proven to be error, over and over again as long as man has been compiling "knowledge".

To avoid going nuts, many just settle into the most comfortable error they can find, and at some point they stop "looking into it", and just live out their tenure as doctors of the popular error of their time, and all must become philosophers to defend the error they have chosen, until the new paradigm sweeps them from office, in time, as it always has done before them. What is interesting is how long that newer paradigm takes to get a foot hold, some errors persist for quite some time and many are half true extending their stay.

I think at times people look for an either or answer, but in reality there is often an inter-relationship at work, a synergy of combined forces.

21

Geoffrey Jackson hints at the identity of the King of the North

by scotoma in

jw
friends

the big news at the annual corporate meeting was probably the sudden realization that gog of .

magog was some group of nations.

the news was given by geoffrey jackson.

Ocean1111

They are setting up the "attack" expectation, revamping it psychologically and combining it for a down to earth "manifestation" when that comes upon Bethel soon, as expected in the "prophecy". But it may drag on a while imo. Thus they have a great continued distraction, because the USSR is not a global gold bullion controller of Dan11:42-43 obviosuly, the "8th King" system of globalization will of course control global bullion; and it is not insignificant that gold ownership at that volume is "the base plate of national sovereignty", so obviuously in the JW game, Daniel 11:42-43 is a far more significant prophecy that still has to fulfill, that Bethel just bypasses as if it is nothing.

Thus if they can bypass that logic of bullion globalization meaning, and asset globalization into super-corporate control, where it has been tipping for quite some time, yet all of a sudden see "Gof of Magog" "logic", they are advancing JWs too far into prophecy and global development to just bypass the whole final cycle of globalization completion into world government, the logical "terminus". Bethel plays dumb and astute at the same time, yet their insghts are selective and are settign JWs up with engineered expectations "backed by prophecy", while ignoring more obvious contradictions in Daniel 11 they stick to.

Thus it will not be "the end" imo, it will be the end of national sovereign control of their own finances, gold and assets at large scale, and that will have to normalize into a globalized financial "solution". In that cycle severe economic, political and religious turbulence will form, and into that they can crash Bethel as "attacked" as if it is fulfilling prophecy, but in fact it was just the smokescreen to dissolve Bethel under, imo. The world system plods on to full globalization, and JWs are dumped overboard without a clue as to reality that "King North" always has had to be world government, and King South is all the nations, the "nation-state system", made subservient to "King North" world government mostly by the financial means explicitly hinted at in Daniel 11:42-43.

Its so obvious Bethel has to be "missing this" purposely.

He who owns the global "gold and silver" basically will be the owner of the world, for any financial reboot will require enormous gold as the original basis of that system, just like when the US Dollar was born in the gold cradle, but vacated all ties to gold incrementally later.

He who owns the gold, will make the rules, and it will have to be a unified uni-polarity under world government, no nation has any gold holdings as far as some speculate, and the gold system is harder to research than the central banking system. Truth is it seems no one knows where all the gold is, but King North knows, and that is not "Russia", just another Bethel decoy to distract from the more obvious reality, imo.

Bethel "gold" and "desirable things" will also be transferred and Bethel will be dissolved and they will sell that to JWs as "prophecy fulfilling brothers!", "behold Christ!", but Christ will not arrive as expected, JWs will have a riddle and will be lucky to retain a single "Kingdom hall" over their head when this is done. JWs were duped, and well engineered and misarranged "theology" created the "self fulfilling prophecy" to provide the perfect exit strategy, smokescreen and final riddle for poor JWs to figure out on their own, imo, whenever the smoke clears over Bethel corporations.

What they are telling JWs is expect the "attack" and that is "the end of the world", but it will just be the end of Bethel, JWs will live the delusion to the full. In reality, imo, it is just a final globalization cycle of instability to form the final stability recovery in time. There is enough globalization research on-line for Bethel to figure this out, so Bethel is either too dumb, or they are "in on it", and probably a bit of both. Apostasy is what "fulfills" at Bethel, the ramifications are then to be sold to JWs as "the end", and when it is over no one is going to care if JWs wake up anytime soon. Bethel will be gone, imo, or so litigated as to be a blackhole of delay and reproach.

In any case JWs will be left holding the bag, the final victims of Bethel's criminal rackets, imo.

10

Those that hope the end comes soon.

by LogCon in

.

Ocean1111

An irony is, imo, Bethel will be the source of the greatest "test of faith" to ever befall JWs in time. It is very handy to have a premature "end of the world" delusion and overly primed expectation to cover up the Bethel collapse. But in the end, Bethel was its own and JWs own worst enemy in reality, not "the world". The GB damaged JWs more than anything else in all JW history—it is defintely a failed experiemtn in Bethel and "JW management".

Its rather surreal actually because it did have a sincere beginning imo, but this is what happens when one lets the big heads and aloof and self-exalted elites run the joint on mere assumptions and a looped tape soundtrack of the past in the modern JW house of mirrors.

102

It is official they're selling off Kingdom Halls in Britain

by raymond frantz in

i posted here a week ago some disturbing news for congregations being consolidated in britain.

my goodness that was nothing !

a letter was read today from bethel addressed to all congregations in britain that can only be described as the biggest news for years.the main points:.

Ocean1111

What I am starting to think is the JW numbers are actually in the 5-6 million range, they extended that statistical error and floated a congreagtional bloat to keep the illusion fresh (and to store assets for the right time in that illusion), and now they are sellign down to the real numbers, before game day on Bethel, to get out the big asset haul before the storm hits on Bethel. The Bethel system "bones" will be left behind for litigants and creditors, the meat is now exiting via hedges and tunnels. I think the last 4 years is at least a public record 500 million dollars in real-estate in just JW owned hotels liquidated in NY alone. Imagine the international real numbers in all assets. Probably a BILLION or two.

Congregations would be liquidated last, because some JWs may react to that red flag if it was flown too early on, imo, so they are saving this portion for last, but are now liquidating down "on speed", to the real JW numbers, actually well below 7 million JWs, imo. Bethel has been in negative JW numbers, covered with statistical fiction, for probably a decade. The ministry is even deader than the measly 1-3% supposed growth indicates. It is a cadaver ready for dissection in reality, imo.

In the process, everything is just a "test of faith" in Bethel as being "divinely appointed" as they pillage JW proper, so it is a "test of faith" because JW faith is now squarely upon "the org", not God, God has "left the building" JW "house is abandoned to itself". And rightly so, this is an organizational and human worshiping apostate idolatry led by Bethel itself. Sow, reap, as the story goes.

In case the "test of faith" don't work, then they also spin the "prophecy is fulfilling brothers!" smokescreen. All in all mental delusions covers up reality to the average JW mind.

Then finally, when push comes to shove, they just tell JWs: "Thank you brothers and sisters for all your help. The ministry is now over, officially." "Good bye, check the sky for Christ, he will be showing up soon, in the meantime see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya!"

End of story.

Christ will not be showing up quite as soon as deluded JWs are misled to expect, instead that delusion aids the exit strategy and the billions from the JW org. Bethel is the only world that will be "ending", JWs have been fully duped by delusion and faith in mere men, con men at that. The world system continues, JW become laughing stock, the whole ministry and prophecy is discredited for quite some time, Bethel is dissolved.

JWs check in to reality. Faith is indeed tested. The world continues to run its course. A new drama emerges. Some JWs learn the lesson.

102

It is official they're selling off Kingdom Halls in Britain

by raymond frantz in

i posted here a week ago some disturbing news for congregations being consolidated in britain.

my goodness that was nothing !

a letter was read today from bethel addressed to all congregations in britain that can only be described as the biggest news for years.the main points:.

Ocean1111

Does the phrase "corporate raid" have any relevance to today's Bethel? We shall in time find out I guess. Looks like "the end of the Bethel world", not the world system overall, "has approached", that "grand climax is at hand".

Please reserve a life boat for the floating JWs to come from this Jonah like toss overboard from the Bethel sinking ship. The spiritual anchor has long since been abandoned, the ice bergs abound, "the only sign that will be given" to JWs is "the sign of Jonah", buried 3 days, a "day for a year", coming soon. A big fish will be required.

There will be a party after "three days", "JWs: Welcome Back from the Abyss!"

In all seriousness, may we lend a helping hand to JWs when the time comes, they seem to be the last victims lined up in the Bethel scam. May we treat JWs better than they treat their shunned and beaten "sheep" brothers and sisters, and so doing heap firey coals upon their humbled heads with reconciliation in view. Poor guys, really, they trusted men rather than God and this is what happens when that happens. Shift happens.

Imo, "it's the end of the Bethel as we know it..., it's the end of the Bethel as we know it..."

Matthew 24:15

4

JW on blue background,--- help!

by prologos in

working on he house i was stunned to see jw on a blue background that had peeled off the new windows.

cant link, but google "jw windows logo" to see it .

free unvolontary visual display for the org in new window installations.

Ocean1111

Its the UN and Israel flag color scheme, since JWs represent both in some manner I guess.

15

Zone Overseers (does anyone know the details?)

by slimboyfat in

i would like to know a bit more about zone overseers, the office and its power.

they seem to visit various branches (presumably each oversees 3 to 4 branches) to make sure everything is in order.

the famous visit of jack barr to ireland in the wake of the ray franz induced apostasy in that branch is an example of how a zone visit works.

Ocean1111

I think the "zone" is the front end logistical control web, it cascades down to the congregational neo-Jesuits for JW herding and damage control purposes.

The "other board" that sprang up in 1992, I think, is more the back end unknown group who are setting up the legal and financial plumbing, and they have to have deep legally knowledgeable assistance, the are like the contractors carrying out the architecture probably produced in a "star chamber" like group, totally unknwon to JWs.

The GB "board" is the fronting "politicians" that sell the whole thing visually, and like politicians are not the real power in Bethel scattered inside and outside and probably well nested in the ever elusive "Watchtower Society".

Thus the back end is where the real secrecy lay, the management front end is for JW control and herding. Imo all "anointed" have long been filtered out of the Bethel controls and teaching centers, it is all now a collective act to guide billions elsewhere, in time, and to sell that to JWs as "the end of the world". It will take years for JWs to figure out Bethel's end was not the "end of the world", but just the JW world many are putting misplaced faith in.

Overall, imo, Bethel's end is what Bethel is preparing JWs for by making it appear as a global development, when it will focused on "God's house" first, and no one really cares whether JWs perceive reality very quickly as this runs its course, imo, it is not an overnight transition. The "zone" is the part of the front end JW control pyramid top that keeps the web in place.

Phasing DOs out is just compressing them down to the CO lower tier to tighten the mix of "company men" over the congregational areas, imo.

19

What would it take to get you outa there?

by sparrowdown in

jw
friends

i have a question for any still going to meetings but no longer a believer.. is there any situation or announcement that would cause you to.

draw your line in the sand and walk away?.

if so, what would be your "last straw" moment?.

Ocean1111

I think overall, like the Titanic, organizational dissolution and Bethel cancelling its own ministry in the process is what may get through to some of the mass JW herd. And since the world system has to run its course in that aftermath JWs will start to percieve what went wrong and why, imo. When the object of faith in men and org goes down any with that faith will also have a "test of faith", unfortunately in the wrong things which is what Bethel's system has become.

Due to the steady contraction in growth and even possibly concealed contraction in actual JW numbers, gradually Bethel is itself killing the potential numbers by their own policies, so in a way many have finally left as Bethel's fruitage is not a good overall influence. The congregations already have taken on the ice water, but apparently it has been so gradual few care, notice or live in denial that all the worst principles of the Bible, "fulfill" right in JWs.

But JWs are the last victims, when the ship goes down hopefully we treat the JW survivors better then they treated their shunned brothers and sisters. They are partly too blame for condoning the Bethel tyrants, but Bethel is the lead icemen. What JWs can kiss good bye is anything they ever gave to that ship, imo, it will be gone in a matter of a couple years, from the time the "self fulfilling prophecy" begins to activate on the Bethel Titanic.

The GB is the rogue captain that took over the controls in 1976, and that is the experimental management that has fully failed, JWs just do not know it yet. Imo, Bethel ends long before the world system even culminates into final global management systems. The premature end scenario is what keeps many JWs there. If they plainly told JWs the truth, that it goes on a number of more years, many JWs would leave. If the fear magnet was depowered JWs could comfortably abandon ship, but Bethel won't become truthful because they will not take a bite out of their free paycheck.

128

900 Top Scientists Sign Statement Skeptical of Macro-Evolution

by Perry in

we are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural .

selection to account for the complexity of life.

careful examination of the .

Ocean1111

What next? Question plate tectonics, the big bang, gravity and the date of the last ice age? Yep. lol, welcome to the "imaginary universe".

Remember even Darwin stated his theory did not address speciation, it just layed out a concept framework. Imo even "evolution" has "evolved" beyond anything Darwin would have imagined. He was not an atheist either, it appears the only threat he posed was to the narrow Catholic "sciences", and people making money off the Darwin ideas then proceded to "mutate" his ideas to fit their agenda as they also "evolved" into an academic Catholicism; its a circle. To Darwin God is who "created" "evolution" go figure.

In reality it all must actually be seemless universally and even supra-universally, so science and religion could agree, it is the seamstress and ironers who cannot. In reality it must be a whole and it already is perfect, it is the "human being" that is the problem, that much can be proven. And thus the "human being" is not going to hack the knowledge of reality as the "human being" is trying to do. At some point it must be taught as originally intended, from the Source of the whole.

Its actually just logical, but the human brain is easily confused by logic and subject to interpretations of it, hence the controversy over "evolution" never really evolves much, imo.

15

How many lawsuits can the WTBTS absorb?

by Coded Logic in

it seems like the society has been desperately seeking ways to cut costs and boost reviniew (jw.org, kingdom hall programs, etc) over the past four or five years.

is this because donations are actually down?

or have they been preparing themselves for these lawsuits?

Ocean1111

They liquidated at least 500 million in real estate investments, in the public record, in 4 years or so. Maybe as high as 900 million. So they can handle plenty of suits, but if that liquidation disappears in the hedges, as some speculate, then Bethel will be bare boned when the tsunami of litigation arrives. It seems Bethel is liquidating to keep the profit now, vanishing into the hedges later, basically gone as it goes in, then they can just abandon the infrastructural bones to the front end litigations, and there by the internal guidance system will still profit as the ship goes down, and those assets will have been disappearing since say 2010 in bulk.

They are doing the opposite of preparing for the front end lawsuits imo, they are "hedging" to get out with the real loot on the back end. The rest (the leftovers) can then just fall into recievership and seizure and to them who really cares at the front end. JWs are left holding the bag, the place is derailed, and they just call off the ministry to further the delay process. They sell that to JWs as "the end", and though it is not the end, it will provide the needed cover for a few years for all the Bethel rats to vanish with their nice JW bonuses, and whose the wiser?

Not JWs, they will be trying to figure out the riddle a few years, imo, and by then it won't matter, it was an override and scam since the GB took the coup in 1976, this just completes the process, and for it to have completed in around 40 years is actually not that unbelievable. The legal entanglements ensure the forensics to uncover the real reality will be impossible for the average JW, it may as well have been Enron. JWs will have been outstripped by actors and the sheer complexity and scale of the org, and its international capabilities of hiding assets for good.

The scale of the recent real estate liquidations is what may be the biggest red flag of recent note. Who needs to dump 700 million in US real estate? What about international investments? What about non real estate assets? Then the real number can be in billion or two billion range, and we realize overall this is a big score, and JWs are the perfect dummies to have played this on, imo.

The national litigations are just the nail in the coffin that will have to complete liquidation of Bethel's bones, to settle final litigation judgment, because the meat will be long gone, and that is where JWs can be tangled for quite some time just trying to figure out how to save their own hall. Quite a mess is theoretically closing around JWs, the proper "earthquake" in financial terms is all that is needed as the global context of that "tsunami".

But it is just complex enough to require a few years to really run the whole gutting and "bone saw" operation of Bethel's corporate cadaver, imo. It won't be, imo, an overnight take down, and so they need to have a smokescreen of misapplied prophecy to cover the first waves of the tsunami for JWs to buy it all as "prophecy fulfilling brothers!", "persecution!".

Yet Bethel actual criminal racketeering is what is actually being dealt with, not "persecution" but long overdue justice for REAL crimes. Of course that is all filtered from the JW tainted diet of "truth" from the Bethel pro liars.

It is all very convenient in overall possibilities of what can actually befall JW global proper.