Posts by Ocean1111

32

Scared of Armageddon?

by naja in

in the light of the following promises made by jehovah, how can there be an armageddon?.

genesis 8:21: ... so jehovah said in his heart: never again will i cursethe groundon mans account, for the inclination of the heart of man is bad from his youth up;and never again will i strike down every living thing as i have done.. genesis 9:15, 16: and i will certainly remember my covenant that i made between me and you and every living creature of every kind;and never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all flesh.and the rainbow will occur in the cloud, and i will certainly see it and remember the everlasting covenant between god and every living creature of every kindon the earth.. does it make sense to say "i will never kill you by a flood, next time i will use fire?

just asking.. .

Ocean1111

Well we have to understand the word "Armageddon" is a global condition, not "the end" which has been associated with that term. "Har" (mountain), "Magedon" (military camp) is merely a global military establishment in the NATO "charter" of intended military monopoly that will in time depose Russia and China to assimilate their systems into the global master weapons system.

But in such a monopoly of course we also have a unique "world peace" development. This is why NO "wars and reports of wars" is the Matthew 24:6 inversion of what 1Thess5:1-3 "peace and security" is really meaning: global peace by human world government definition is a unique signal period.

Now since we went from a multi-polar world before and into WW1 and WW2 to define a bi-polar world in the Cold War between the US and USSR systems, the trend towards uni-polarity requiring a final cycle is actually intuitive and predictable—it has been moving in that direction over three massive global war cycles, no way can that trajectory to uni-polarity simply be reversed by humans. If it took two world wars to establish a reliable bi-polarity, it seems likely a final cycle will depose the Russian/Chinese system even more so than the Cold War victory going to the US "new world order" advocates financially. (George Bush Sr., Address Before a Joint Session of Congress; 9/11/1990)

This means the post Cold War financial globalization that includes Russia, China and India socialist systems converting to capitalist, contributing billions in global capital dollars and peoples for late-capitalist investment, will simply continue the trajectory that always follows the wealth. The final cycle just fully assimilates the nation-state complex more topical military and governmental systems, but their finances are all in US elite control progressively since 1990. 1990 marked the greatest boost to globalization in all human history as Russia, China and India all joined fully into the financial markets. That is not an insignificant globalization in itself.

It appears the human system is the one to fear the most, for it will become the most dangerous once "world peace" means global weapons become available for other uses once nations have no more sovereignty to protect or expand in traditional multi-polar or bi-polar wars. Reaching that state takes a number of final years over this final cycle requirement.

In reality it seems God and Christ would be arriving not to destroy, but to save as many people as possible from the more dangerous human system (Matt24:21-22) which will be in uni-polarity, king "north" polarity, at that time. Divine power is not interested in "destroying billions", in reality it is global elite systems that have that agenda, which will give it more certainty of attempted deployment. The truth is the global system cannot handle many more people once the 10 billion mark is approached, one way or another that trajectory to eventual over population will be curtailed even if the earth itself had to handle the anti-viral task. God has no population limitations.

This is why they project the blame and fear upon God, but the real culprit remains undetected. God is not the one to be in dread over. Apostate Bethel supports this kind of slander as well, they have people focused on the wrong play.

25

Who's the King of the North & South now?

by prophecor in

back in the old days i used to hear talk about these kings.

are they still teaching anything about these kings in daniel as it pertains to the " time of the end?".

.

Ocean1111

I think a clue the Bethel GB are just an act for subversion purposes is in the logical and elementary summarization of the Bible symbology.

1. Rather than tell us what the WHOLE "scarlet wildbeast" means as also an "8th" "King" as [globalized] world government, the GB stalls in the 1945 UN "image" as if that 20 acre United Nations forum was the pinnacle of global power.

2. Rather than summarize the WHOLE Revelation 13:1 "seven headed" "wildbeast" as a full [ national based] sovereign progression over history terminating in "7th" "King" Anglo-American national power, the GB focuses on the Anglo-American national "seventh world power", "seventh head" as if that is also a "co-ruling" pinnacle of global power.

3. Rather than summarize what the WHOLE Daniel 2 "immense image" means as a whole world government, the GB zooms in on the "toes", as it all equates to? A diversion to fail to logically summarize basic world power equations in prophecy to world government.

Thus as all the Bible symbology reflects the global system's own [national-to-globalized] sovereign convergence, the prophetic convergence must also reflect that convergence of also its own wholeness of symbology that must also converge into one final world power meaning as globalized world government. That is an actually SIMPLE and elementary logical summarization and subject Bethel purposely avoids. With that divergence into incomplete fiction, Bethel can sell the final cycle commencement as "the end" to JWs instead.

The GB avoids elementary completions and by now it has to be purposeful, everyone else and his mother is connecting the world government dot out in the world, while Bethel keeps JWs in a fossilized 1950s cave.

Bethel is an "act stupid" act so that JWs be actually stupid and fully dated in global awareness by the time the final cycle begins, not ends, and it goes on for a number of years and JWs will not put it together for quite some time. Instead a corporate takeover will be sold to JWs by Bethel as simply "the end", go home, goodbye. The world will continue to world government as JWs are left behind in a fictional arrangement of final prophecy that aids the subterfuge while the final cycle starts and proceeds.

JWs will eventually be left broke and scratching their heads. What just happened?? The Governing Body ministerial subversion center is what happened.

25

Who's the King of the North & South now?

by prophecor in

back in the old days i used to hear talk about these kings.

are they still teaching anything about these kings in daniel as it pertains to the " time of the end?".

.

Ocean1111

No. Bethel is a subversion unit. But its pretty easy to see what King North is even without those sell outs.

The world has polarized into nation-state and globalizing power systems. While going worldwide in scope, the obvious definition also simplifies in this final polarity of "north" and "south". They denote final power "poles" even in their terminology.

Thus as simple as it gets is "King South" Anglo-American predominant nation-state system is the whole national global realm. "King North" is globalization backed international power that will absorb the totality of the nation-state systems as eventual world government. True "north".

The 7th King system is the national lead system, the 8th King is the globalized sovereign absorption to come. This is why the 7th King must in time be superceded by 8th King world government and that fall is a literal prophecy at Daniel 11:42-43. It will be globally noticeable when this phase runs its required course.

This is why the Revelation 17 "8th King" "scarlet wildbeast" (King North) absorbs the classic national wildbeast structure of Revelation 13:1 (King South) headed by the 7th King "King South" lead national alliance system.

King South national systems are not destroyed—they are made subservient to globalized sovereignty to emerge through the final cycle period coming up. If Bethel was not a King North led (Dan11:32a) and infiltrated (Dan11:41) apostate ministry of course they could also explain this final global power simplification that the whole nation-state system is globalized into 8th King King North final globalized sovereign meaning.

In hindsight since WW1, WW2 through the Cold War (Dan11:27-29) this national-to-globalized system has been forming, marked by the 1990 3rd UN placement (Dan11:30-31, Dan8:23) that Bethel covers up the meaning of as UN NGO 8th King cohorts.

Applying national meaning to King North is just a distraction effective overall as people do not see their nations being pawned in the world war debt cycles. (massive national debt aids Dan11:42-43) King North always has been led by globalizing world power internationally guided.

57

Anthony Morris III delivers judgement on Branch at Annual Meeting

by Listener in

this is part of the speech that anthony morris iii gave during his time in the limelight at the 2014 annual meeting.. at 3.16.32 of the recorded meeting.

"what role do those with an earthly hope play?

oh oh ho veeeery important role, very important.

Ocean1111

Yes, my take on the overall message between the lines in those videos is "we are not the evil slave folks", and "it is foolish to look for details in prophecy or Bible principles" that might expose Bethel as an apostasy. Now they are aligning Ezekiel 38 Gog "attack" to Daniel 11:44 King North "attack", between the lines, to form a future national set-up to pin the King North fiction on the next Anglo-American globalist opposing "bogey man" that it seems Russia may be used to "fulfill" further deluding JWs that the 8th King is not and has not been "King North" all along.

Everything about this last annual meeting is further subterfuge and concealment to continue to set up JWs for a master coup from within, imo. The "big brother" reference is the King North "big brother", between the lines, that runs Bethel (Dan11:32a), as a veiled threat to anyone trying to organizationally check the coup, or resist the Bethel tyranny as branches are further legally wired and manned for game day.

Since JWs have no outside communication network, all JW info and feedback is piped through the Bethel switchboard. So when it does hit JWs can get info from their org/tv if whole command structures need to be taken out at congreagtional level, Bethel will pipe in the Pied Piper flute strains from the Web, JWs will have only one "voice" to hear, they cannot escape the black vortex of Bethel. This is what happens when people trust mere self-appointed men as divine, corporate kingpins no less.

It all equals great disappointment coming for JWs. The writing is on the wall. Bethel, Bethel, tekel and parsin...

38

My appeal was successful. Now what?

by noonehome in

faders: why do we bother staying in?.

we cling to some false hope that people we love will accept us despite our not believing, even though its as much a fairytale as the dogmas based on untruths.. ive never been anything but a good friend and human being and would do anything for the people i love; i couldnt dream of shutting out someone i care about.

and its not like theyd revel in the idea of doing it either, yet its seen as not just the only choice, but also as undoubtedly the right thing to do.

Ocean1111

Faders: why do we bother staying in?

Leave when they ask you to stay. You have the perfect set-up now.

So now they are asking you to stick around. Time to get goin'.

A scene from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid reminds me of the handy exit you have devised by reverse psychology:

Butch enters the saloon - he would rather rely on his brains than gunplay, and so he interrupts an impending shoot-out:

Butch: We seem to be a little short on brotherly love around here.
Macon: If you're with him, you'd better get yourselves out of here.Butch: (urging his partner) We're on our way. Come on.
Sundance: (with his head slightly down) I wasn't cheating.
Butch: (now more urgently as he drops down beside him) Come on!
Sundance: (louder) I wasn't cheating.
Macon: You can die. For that matter, you can both die.
Butch: You hear that?

Sundance: If he invites us to stay, then we'll go.Butch: We were gonna leave anyway.
Sundance: He's gotta invite us to stick around.Butch: He'll draw on ya. He's ready. You don't know how fast he is. (He moves around behind his pal) I'm over the hill, but it can happen to you.
Sundance: That's just what I want to hear.

Butch: Every day you get older. Now that's a law! (Macon cocks his pistol.) (Butch rises and moves over to the gunman) What would you think about maybe asking us to stick around?
Macon: What?
Butch: You don't have to mean it or anything. Just ask us to stick around. I promise you...(Macon refuses to listen and gestures sharply for Butch to move away. Butch hesitates, turns toward his pal, and softly advises) I can't help you, Sundance.

When the gunman realizes the identity of his opponent - that he is up against quick-draw "Sundance," a horrified, dismayed look crosses his face. As they stand facing each other, the gunman humbly apologizes to the fearsome killer with a deadly reputation, and then requests a display of Sundance's expertise as a gunman:

Macon: I didn't know you were the Sundance Kid when I said you were cheatin'. If I draw on you, you'll kill me.
Sundance: There's that possibility.
Butch: No, you'd be killin' yourself. So why don't you just invite us to stick around? You can do it, and easy. Come on. (coaxing) Come on.
Macon: (blurting out a subliminal apology) Why don't you stick around?
Butch: Thanks but, hah, we gotta get goin'. (He scoops up the Kid's winnings into his hat.)

24

Today's WT study (10/12/14) - a sales seminar!

by OneEyedJoe in

this cult is getting really shameless.

the wt study was always supposed to be for discussion of 'the deep truths' of the bible.

the wt may have always been filled with utter nonsense, but at least it had the appearance of a topical discussion of bible doctrine.

Ocean1111

@Phizzy

If it pans out as you say, then we all, who have family that are active JW's, will have to be on hand to help them adapt to the real world.

I fear that some will not be able to handle the realisation that they have wasted their lives, and that they have been lied to by those they trusted.

I am really afraid that if the whole thing crumbles then some, from depression brought about by the rug being pulled from under them, will choose to end their lives.

An elderly, long time JW said to me a while ago, with an air of both sadness and desperation, "But if this religion is not true, what else is there for us ?".

I agree. Also, I think it indicates that the ultimate sleight of hand and illusion is allowing "religion" and "organization" to eclipse truth, as if it is synonymous. Its not. As if, if the JW org went down no truth would be present, no reason would be left to live, as if all truth was removed from earth! Never have human operations had any truth, for very long, within them, and this is just the same repeating principle where people allow "organization" and "theocratic" rituals to define "truth" for them. The Bible was there long before "the org" and will be there when it is gone and the prophecy does not fail just because the Bethel gangsters have failed.

The selling of the org as synonymous with truth was gradual, but regularly developed to the idol of hype and presumption it is today. It is just that, hype, presumption and IDOLATRY.

People start to see the org circus and the GB clowns and FORGET to stay focused on God and Christ. Geez, that is why the Circus ever formed! to distract, and it has met its purpose in JWs, it is all org, org, slave, GB, org, org, JWs, org, org, org, GB, GB, GB, GB, GB, org, org—Jesus Christ?! nope. God? Nope. No God anymore WHATSOEVER right INSIDE the JW ministry, totally is He absent. Can we blame Him? I'd split that circus myself too. And that is what God has also done, bye bye JWs, hello judgment. (1Pet4:17)

What do we take God for a fool here? Oh man. Poor JWs, poor poor JWs. Reaping the sowing time approaches. FASTEN YOUR SEAT BELTS. And may one not be in the org when it comes. (Matt24:15) We will know when it hits and its going to drag on a bit. (Dan8:14, Hos6:1-3)

See we can't allow focus to be lost that the prophecies Christ uttered and in many cases he gave indication of, must still manifest further. In fact a Bethel apostasy is just one more requirement of the prophecy!, it must be exposed before the actual arrival of Christ. (2Thess2:1-4) That part of the prophecy is not going to fail, at some point human rulership of earth has to end. But it is not beyond belief the Bethel dolts would fudge it up well before hand. They are just the picture of the Pharisees in modern form, again, Bethel Pharisees v. 3.006, they even out perform Christendom now.

Thus thinking the prophecy will also fail just because men have failed, as usual, is part of the overall subversion and diversion many religions, not just JWs, are well set up for.

Yet is all reinforces the very prophecy it attempts to subvert, go figure!

You know somehow believing this group of guys and gals that got together to teach the Bible to people, that somehow they have become more important than the Bible itself, and somehow that becomes the tenet of supposed believers. Where in the heck do people get so subverted? But it is common, seems to be the way it goes eventually.

Funny how what JWs used to point out about Israel and the churches, now REPEATS right in front of our faces, but lo and behold does not come up on the JW apostasy and hypocrisy radar, not one blip appears. The JW radar ONLY tracks anything BUT our own abomination, lol, Bethel runs their own apostate radar cloaking device. Since when is God going to bless blatant ridiculous hypocrites just because we hope God didn't notice that little UN NGO orgy?—while JWs are known to have a magnifying glass for everyone else's "straws" and an "accurate knowledge" of what we are SUPPOSED to be awake and doing, too boot. Thus the same old story is merely repeating.

The bomb of hypocrisy has been wired by JWs themselves and self righteousness lights the fuse, no mater who we are eventually the high horse ride ends—its just we thought JWs new a little better, but nope that is our own fault for assuming that, JWs are just average, dupable Joes. Thus acting like that Governing Body is God's holy council of materialized guardian angels is also JWs own fault, trust people? Get screwed, "Cursed is the able-bodied man who puts his trust in earthling man" (Jer17:5) and that is what will happen to JWs. When God said trust God and Christ ALONE, He meant it, everything else fails.

If we put faith in the Bethel Titanic, then that is where our faith will be headed, down. And they know this, that is why it is overly prominent in JWs lives, it is some JWs lives and that should not have happened.

That is the ultimate trick even the Bethel distraction now aids, that somehow a human ministry is more important than truth, than God, than a document transmitted by the picked angels of God (Acys 7:53) telling the future (the Bible), a prophecy becoming history as it unfolds with the overall human rulership folly, a document Christ was the physical spokesmen for, wrapping up that phase. Bethel totally forgot their own real reality, they are NOTHING when they try to compete with God, Christ and truth and the Bible as if they are the same thing. ANd that is what it is "set in opposition" competition.

Yet that basic Bible we all take for granted, that was their through the days of gladiators and early saints, through the days of knights and ladies as the Roman world faded away, through the era of "new world" explorers, adventurers, the fall of the Aztec empire, to the wild west, from the first gold rush to the volcanic-like eruption of the World Trade Center turning to dust, the Bible has been there the whole time allowing men and group follies to discredit the angelically delivered pronouncements from God Himself that have been coming true the whole time men have been distracted by the various follies and desires of ages past and present. Now the almighty dollar rules, tech toys and every specialization known to human distraction, every possible accessory, and open information at scales never dreamed of in the 1500s.

Yet the Bible and its prophecy remains true just waiting to unfold further with the global human folly, including Bethel's. Through all those centuries, attempts and failures, the Bible will keep rolling forward, and the truth in it, though subverted by men and groups, is still actually unsubvertible truth, people are distracted by the many speculations, yet it does all mean something. All them angels are real, and still around, don't allow doubt to make one think otherwise. (Heb13:2)

Thus may we not get distracted by the common distractions, which Bethel by its claims and pomp is the big one.

So here is my opinion, not pushing this on anyone just offering it as my take on the real overall development at work since the Anglo-American empire has been trying to run the show on one hand, while propping up the League of Nations and UN related world government panacea system on the other.

See, few notice the national zenith system in the US/UK empire and the UN international government blueprint, have been CO-DEVELOPING the whole time since WW1's end marked it officially. Now even Russia and China, India and many other major national centers, have joined the late-capitalist capitalization of globalization all made official from the time the Cold War ended, now all of them are in the financial markets to the hilt, and accessible from mere cell-phones globally, not to mention more elaborate participation, and that too is unique to post 1990 development. Of course Bethel connects none of this to world government or prophecy.

So, yet the same prophecy JWs started explaining, before it was derailed, is the same one simmering in the background, as multi-polar world wars (WW1, WW2), formed the bi-polar world of the Cold War , and a final cycle is guaranteed by that evolutionary trend to finally form uni-polarity in sovereign power.

When things go from multi-polar, to bi-polar, to Anglo-American capitalized, over just 90 years really, they are in a trajectory to uni-polar formation—it too is not just a random consolidation, it is an indicative crystallization of world power, it doesn't just "happen".

So even though JWs act as if it is 1950 still, over and over again, in fact they have been bypassed by Bethel over the greatest globalization acceleration period of the whole cycle, and they bypassed that significance while bypassing the 3rd UN placement as prophecy. See that "New World Order" globalist pow wow Bethel joined in was a third cycle ending climax marker used in WW1 (1919), and WW2 (1945), so it is not just an insignificant detail. Its UN 1-2-3 (of 4) so far, to JWs it is UN 1-2, end of story. And that is what they want, JWs derailed fully.

It is just a matter of time, and had Bethel not been hi-jacked, JWs could have explained that obvious process from when the Cold War ended as the "7th King" Anglo-American national alliance nation-state array hit zenith at the same time. But that is not the end, that US/UK zenith also has a fall. The 7th King must fold into the 8th King uni-polar world order, that is where the forecast was leading in a final UN cycle coming up, that JWs could have made, had the dead GB not looked the other way, and took on a UN aiding agenda instead while administering heavy laughing gas and sleeping pills on the JW lobotomy in progress, especially since 1990.

In reality we were at a post 3rd cycle (1947-1990) that ended with a foretold 3rd UN placement (uncommented on by UN NGO Bethel as Dan11:31b), this is the cusp before the UN fourth cycle yet to activate, that will see the global end of nation-state scale sovereign authority which is also already in the prophecy. JWs have fully missed the meaning of the 3rd UN placement, and of course cannot understand the 4th as world government.

BUT it takes a multi-year final cycle to complete the real Daniel 11:42-45. Bethel is the 8th King/King North "invasion" of Daniel 11:41, and that is why Bethel bypasses that prophecy, and covers it up with the handy USSR is "King North" mythology.

Thus it is not for no reason JWs, who connected up the first two UN placements as prophecy (1919, 1945), could not connect the last two UN placements as also prophecy (1990, future), and have been derailed fully since 1990, overrun since 1976 GB coup, and now await, on a sort of spiritual organizational death row, the final coup-de-grace as a corporation and organization, imo. It was crucial to break the JW ministry in spirit first, so no one would see what that 1990 3rd UN presentation cycle ending really means. Just prop up a looping tape, that is what Bethel is, an endless loop of the past. In reality the coming cycle does not mean "the end", it means the final cycle is gearing up for activation, and into that cycle apostate Bethel is planning to send JWs up the river with no paddle and no charts or map to figure it out for themselves enroute to Niagara Falls, the real new "HQ".

So JW judgment will be 1Pet4:17, and Dan8:13-14, and it will become instead a final cycle commencement signal. So when said "But if this religion is not true, what else is there for us ?". The FAITH (Rev14:12) and the truth still remains, religion only plays a temporary role. The prophecy and Bible are still truth, the UN world government completion, when done (Dan11:45, 8:25) and stated (1Thess5:1-3), is what enables Christ's "drop in". Christianity is what defined JWs, NOT the other way around, and the true tradition of Kingdom of God certainty merely continues to the stated goals in the Bible, so may we pray and read the Bible, the truth is still with God and Christ and they aren't fictitious characters in a meaningless book.

We just have to run a final cycle and let the 8th King complete their world government mission for a while, the "one hour" of Revelation 17:12. And yes, JWs in any case are going to need to be given help to keep hope, and understand diverting faith to men and "org", is why faith goes down with those men and "org" when that time comes, and come it will, JWs are now idolatrous, but they can be recovered, it was a sly subversion very slowly applied. (Dan8:12) We just tell JWs to direct faith to where it was supposed to have remained, on God and Christ alone, and God's ability to fulfill His own Word. God does big judgment events with repentance in mind for those putting 2 and 2 together. The Bethel microcosm is just a convenient place to get some global attention from a bad situation, attention to looking closely at prophecy again. Obviously Bethel parrots the Bible, but they only study it for the subversion agenda, not to progress JWs, but to retard them.

Just get ready for an adventure, but never lose hope or be too distracted by the common ploys of men and the world, it will keep "panting to the end" and it will have to run its full course, there is no short cut, yet at the same time it will arrive, "it will not be late". (Hab2:3), But at the same time God is not sneaking in, He will give full warning, it is JWs He sneaks in on for the judgment. (1Pet4:17, Zech3:1-3)

The JW downfall, really a temple judgment, was a requirement before "the vision" would fully be realized in that Habakkuk 2:3 prophecy "for the appointed time" is aided by the apostasy being fully exposed where it is: at and in Bethel; Bethel is who is "The Apostate". Thus the delusion "to the effect Jehovah's day is here" at Bethel now defines 2Thess2:1-2, but the apostasy is what must be exposed well before "the day" arrives as per 2Thess2:3-4. and this is why Bethel sells the "it can end tomorrow brothers!" delusion, to dupe JWs further "to the effect Jehovah's day is here". But in reality Bethel must be globally exposed as apostate first to the hilt. It allows a final warning and invitation to go forth free of the Bethel sins and burdens, they just helped reveal the apostasy where it was (is) in final form.

Bethel is what can "end any day now brothers!", the world system will run its full course, Bethel was just 8th King road kill of Dan8:13 required first "trampling". While JWs are derailed to oblivion, for a time (Dan8:14), the world government boys will just put the pedal to the metal in the final global cycle leaving JWs behind to eat their dust, eventually left scratching their heads wondering what the heck is really going on.

But that is just my take on this overall development in view of the four global cycles WW1, WW2, the Cold War and the final cycle have to form overall. I know why they want JWs thinking it is a "slam dunk" "end of the world", they can down Bethel and sell it to JWs as "the end", and that forms the perfect exit strategy, JWs will have to figure it out with the GB head lopped off and no Bethel, imo, to whatever degree necessary by God. The GB definitely has to go. How far Bethel is trashed I do not know, it may go down fully, not sure, it aint looking good right now I can tell you that.

24

Today's WT study (10/12/14) - a sales seminar!

by OneEyedJoe in

this cult is getting really shameless.

the wt study was always supposed to be for discussion of 'the deep truths' of the bible.

the wt may have always been filled with utter nonsense, but at least it had the appearance of a topical discussion of bible doctrine.

Ocean1111

It must have been hard for some to stay in Bethel in the past. How possibly can anyone do so in the present?

Excuse my short story here, I really have thought a lot about the other possible dots in the JW picture. I really do like your average JW, I just do not like the Bethel elitist camp, I am not talking the average guys and gals at Bethel either, but the corporate spiritual serial killers actually running the place, actually in the authority to stop, change, apologize and make amends, but who continue what they KNOW is harming and stumbling MILLIONS of people. Those guys are not big dummies, they are evil genius—they KNOW what they are doing, they KNOW the global effect their purposeful spiritual malaise is producing. They are not Christian, and they are a faction that has gained control. And that is why even at the top, there may be a few last Christians in the Bethel system. I am not sure, it certainly is not Christians controlling the ministry, in fact it is the opposite.

...

I think any system affecting millions of people and even people indirectly affected has effects that we cannot see but only assume. Some are fooled fully, some partially, some not at all, while others remain in denial, or just go for the fun of it, like going to the VFW for a drink. Its probably a more complex mix knowing as well how the guilt and coercion loop works, and the "peer pressure" the JW zombies can apply to others as they display their "theocratic" personality and valorous concern for spiritual hygiene, it starts to get ridiculous. I mean I really empathize and feel sorry for the average JW stuck in this mess, its like watching your family board the Titanic in a surreal nightmare, and somehow you just have to board with them, but close to shore you know you are going to hoist and toss them all over board and swim them back in yourself, but you just need the right opportunity when everyone is whale watching at the same time to get them all at once, time is of the essence.

So I think some have left internally and remain for various reasons. The worst "reason" is just being fully fooled by the veneer which looks like it seems to have always looked. But now even that veneer is altering in a strange way, as if branded by some Madison Avenue corporate advertising campaign, a spiritual Taco Bell "spiritual food" operation, a well thought out color coordinated sound bit re-branding externalizing what has actually been forming internally the whole time in that " Governing Body" and its shadow cloned second board of directors doing likewise to the legal plumbing of the corporations at trans-national level of alteration. Those clowns don't even wear the same underwear twice, they are twice removed, three times, from JW reality, and JWs think they are just like them, average Joes. But no Virginia JW, them things aint even human, its all appearances and the grand JW delusion empowering it all.

Many JWs do not know about the second board, though it was officially mentioned. And we are now talking a multi-billion dollar cash cow, this is not Knorr era wealth here, we are talking a BIG score and a true elitist core Bethel sub-culture at the top. The elusive aloof "Watchtower Society" is now their version of a Watchtower "Skull and Bones". The ministerial hierarchy is just a Neo-Papalism slicked up in western corporate dress codes and business attire, but it is at heart the same thing. All the parts of subversion and apostate control, top down, and bottom up, is ALL present in JWs well removed from what was their own billions in aid that is now in the legal spiderweb globally. Imo, JWs will lose most if not all of that. But we shall see, it is not going to just turn out for a short-cut to paradise, I can tell you that, it is a Bethel criminal operation requiring a massive dose of cosmic fate not to mention the "finger of God", it is set up like a disaster and laughing stock waiting to happen, a humble pie picnic, a weird poetic justice.

Meaning how can all the signals of apostasy and corporate takeover all be flashing at once and it all be just random development and all peaking in strange final form since 2012? Its weird is what it is called.

So in effect you have a right hand diversion in the GB visual and talking head group, aided by assumed traditions and JW history of the past, while experts in other areas re-circuit the org finances and corporate and ministerial system logistics globally as the sleight of left hand operation, and it is aided by external experts and the score is worth billions of dollars as the end of the JW Ponzi scheme arrives. It has actually expanded exponentially by hard work of JW slaves globally, that turned big donations regularly into million dollar properties globally, and who knows what kind of top level expert guided market investments they have made with this literally endless cash cow as JWs keep showering them with millions of dollars globally.

I mean they know how to turn 1 JW donated dollar consistently into 10, and they have been doing it fully since 1970 and it has expanded even if the JW percentile numbers consistently declined in appreciable growth percent (now like 2% now, or whatever), the capital core kept expanding in base JW labor and raw wealth resources. They kept expanding the capital system regardless of whether it was really needed, they consistently re-invested cash in things they can valuate with free JW labor—that others can scoop up later, and it is quite a lot of property as but one area they have invested into. They are ripping off JWs blind right in front of them, and JWs fill the bags for them, a lug it all to the get-away car, JWs are that naive, and will keep being that naive even when it implodes duped JWs will aid the corporate raid process for some time.

The UN NGO is evidence of the kind of internal iceberg developments of which the UN NGO is just the tip, a sort of pilot aberration they flung out in 2001 with the 911 events to see how JWs would react. The weird thing is that UN endorsement phase was never officially addressed by Bethel, so some JWs, due to the nature of the news release timing with 911, imo, do not even know about it. So Bethel is actually cleverly concealing what is the greatest red flag of infiltration and or apostasy to EVER form in this supposed truthful ministry. Most JWs are in a fog of traditions imo.

Meaning I think some are literally, in worst case scenario, buying the old school JW ministry veneer maintained for that effect floated over actually horrendous anti-Christian activity spawned internally, by intelligent design, from within Bethel. Thus assumption is aiding these fooled ones, and the true corporate tapestry is a billion dollar labyrinth the Bethel corporate elites can engineer with zero external JW interest or curiosity, they can do whatever the heck they want, whenever the heck they want to, and the closed system is the only authority.

JWs are just the "aphids" in the "master ant" nest to milk, and yet stumble as well, to just maintain a balance that is functional for now, yet the Ponzi scheme already made its asset haul in the last 40 years of duped JW sweat, and the rest is setup for the coming implosions that will develop with broader global financial developments exacerbated by any of the host of new global developments with Iran, ISIS, Ebola and or Russia, and who knows what else to now throw into the mix.

In other cases some may know it is way off, but feel like "under covers" who merely hang out to observe further developments. I know I did that for a while until a long distance move allowed me to fully fall off the JW radar. But when I could go back I really did consider the UN NGO true severity to even the former JW "rules", not to mention anything claiming loyalty to God's Kingdom, and Matthew 24:15.

I felt it was actually a well hidden evil operation and it was good advice from Christ to "discern" the meaning of the "disgusting thing" in modern times. I mean if they disfellowship one for a mere smoke, but themselves endorse the 3rd United Nations "New World Order" presentation after the Cold War, and think that is just harmless library access to books publicly available globally anyways, then either stupid or evil men are running this ministry now.

The more I look into it, the more evil intelligence and design surfaces for which the "Governing Body hypocritical idiots" is just an easy to swallow diversion, it is just an act that well covers the actually billion dollar scoped experts in the organization that have redesigned the whole corporate networking, and that is not idiot dolts who accomplish these things, and it is not some big random development. The goal is shutting down JWs, and better yet, do it from Bethel's own mouth: The ministry is over! Go home! Good bye!

Thus if even half of that overall reality is there, it is very difficult and painful for JWs to accept the treachery actually at work in the ministry, and so denial is employed to just try to ignore it all as long as possible. I feel though things are going to develop, that at some point in their coup development, will not be deniable and some people will have seen its telltale signs all along. I hope people have not blamed the poor misled and hyper-holy JWs among us too much for what Bethel is truly the culprit bearing most of the responsibility because they could have changed, they know what is going on, they are not that dumb, yet they maintain the course to disaster.

May we toss JWs a life raft when the time comes, and understand they have been fully duped from the roots of what was once a valid attempt at Christian truth, that did expose the UN world government forming dangers, that did try to celebrate what Jesus Christ himself is really all about, that actually did try to "obey God as ruler rather than men" but that somehow lost focus, accrued astounding wealth, got too comfortable, got too cocky, and got too sleepy, and that attracted in the wolves and vultures, the money loving predators that now control not just the Bethel system and ministry, but even the JW puppet on the streets carrying their will, not God's any longer.

And yet Israel itself fell into the EXACT SAME pattern, and it equals judgment, it repeats and JWs cannot be that surprised once the dust and flames settle on their beloved golden calf house. I hope we can really lend them a helping hand, because they are going to be hurting and most of it will be from the Bethel treacherous screw job they will have just taken the brunt of and they are going to have a hard time swallowing a pill that big. We will have to crack into pieces for JWs to handle a bit at a time, I think God really will help JWs once the price is paid, just like old Israel. It can be recovered and at least learn a thing or two in the process, like give all people a break, (Jesus! especially our shunned an abused brothers and sisters!) and focus on undeserved kindness, anything competing with that will fail in the end, and that is also why Bethel will go down.

We do not want to be like Edom, and gloat over the JW tragedy, because then what was our own true motive, and unfortunately some people just love to hate JWs, but that is not the purpose, Bethel is the "a system of things" that should be shunned (Matt13:36-42), not the average human JW. Bethel is the main "weed" of our day, the true and classic final apostasy imo, and I feel of course it will be of prophetic proportions and actuality when it hits and runs its course, it will develop in a changing global context that also will forever be changed for the world at large. What happens to Bethel is going to be a big signal, imo.

24

Today's WT study (10/12/14) - a sales seminar!

by OneEyedJoe in

this cult is getting really shameless.

the wt study was always supposed to be for discussion of 'the deep truths' of the bible.

the wt may have always been filled with utter nonsense, but at least it had the appearance of a topical discussion of bible doctrine.

Ocean1111

Apparently the knob of absurdity does turn up to 11. It definitely has amplified especially since the "we are the faithful slave" show of 2012. I think deep in many a JW heart they have to know things are not quite right, even beyond the UN NGO era mess. But it is those who have seen the last couple decades that may see this weird morphology. For those just coming in in the last ten years, or last week, it seems like the Amway and Avon character was the way it always was. Bethel CNN will be normal. In fact it was a gradient to this level of surreal absurdity.

Ironically it shows signs of "intelligent design" even in the veneer of absurdity. Something else now roams the abandoned halls of Bethel imo, and it aint as dumb as it makes out to be, that is for JWs to assume the character of. Actually both JWs and most JWs critics are both equally subverted, just done in different ways. In th end the same goal is reached. Can that all just be random accident and coincidence? I mean there was a time JWs studied the Bible with modern reality in mind. (c. 1914-1969); There was a time JWs at least read the newspaper.

In all fairness to at one time sincere Jehovah's witnesess of that former era, I think the GB is the cult epicenter and a cult could not form without their obsession with dictatorial power, and that is when it all went comatose. The GB is what ruined the JW attempted Christian truth movement. Its done. Ironically, complete Bethel corporate implosion would be the best thing now that could happen to JWs to allow them to get freed from the corporate cult of western urban religious empire now surrounding them.

Its spiritually ruined as it is now. Dead.

23

Can a religion claim: Only we have the truth?

by Kalos in

truth is self-evident (things like: the whole is greater than its part ....).. truth is always right (things like: caring for the accident victim helplessly bleeding on the road ....).. claiming: only we have the truth is like claiming: only my university is useful.

history shows that many school/college drop-outs have made significant contributions to the society like many those who completed their education!

and on the contrary, many school/college drop-outs have made significant damage to the society like some of those who completed their education!

Ocean1111

What is truth?

—Pontius Pilate (John 18:38)

16

New methods?

by manda63 in

hi, had some strange things happen this week that have made me ponder what on earth is going on with the man made organisation.. 1/ while picking up some train tickets i was approached by a young man with an ipad of sorts who engaged me in a chap and then asked to show me a new website i asked what he was trying to sell or promote he assured me that he was selling nothing the website he showed me was jw.org so i quickly said so you are promoting an organisation with a brand name similar to how a christian would promote jesus and the bible he looked confused but then said yes, so i said that i thought that to be quite shamefull, he froze for a bit and didnt comment so i asked is this new symbol a trade mark of some marketting firm to which he said "no we are jehovahs witnesses" no one else was around so not sure of the "we" but anyway i said if god has given us the bible whats with a website that produces snippets out the bible with an opinion on the meaning he avoided the question and asked me what i believed in so i said my religions leeders dont let me discuss belief with anybody so i obey,listen to them and dont question he said "you have been blessed by j with a brain and freedom of thought to look and question" i said ok but i think its strange that you use a name for god thats perhaps made up by man, blindly follow and dont question a group of self appointed men as well as showing signs of idoatory to an organisation that has pushed jesus to one side, at this he suddenly he had to dash off.

2/ when out shopping i was apprehended by a group of people with a stand giving free literature and promoting the jw.org website so i had had to ask whats with this name change after all these years and are you a similar religion to the catholic church which led to a chat about how the catholic religion is false and how they wickedly have covered up sex abuse!

i didnt bite on this one but asked if birth control was banned in the jw.org religion a lady stepped forward and explained that it was cruel and not biblical to ban contreception i said i had been shown a bit in the bible that gives rise to this ban and she said they(catholic church) dont understand the bible and use it to control and miss inform people so i replied similar to how your organisation bans blood and birthdays by misinterpreting the bible i went on to say that i believe the organisation to be hypocritical,false , cult like and shamefull how it covers up sex abuse i also got in that the organisation had totally corrupted its self with its un membership and also with the sheer amount of false prophecy over its relatively short history at which the senior man at the table politely told me if i wasnt interested in the literature to be on my way and that hopefully i would mature enough to let jehovah into my heart before it was to late and that he felt sorry for me and the people i obviously associated with.

Ocean1111

...it would appear that the religion is moving in a strange path to worship the new abbreviated name,the Organisation and the self appointed men...

Yes it is at times those outside looking in, not those inside looking inside further at the "spiritual paradise" interior murals, are the ones who see the interior painted walls are in an exterior spiritual slaughter house only visible to those outside now. JW cows are milked and drugged regularly for a time, while Ronald McBethel runs the joint for the GB happy meal to come.

While claiming a "cruise to paradise", the icy waters are filled with icebergs as the moon light reveals the cruise ship is "Bethel Titanic". JWs were so busy "buffing the brass of the org Titanic" so as not to notice just how far it has veered WAY OFF COURSE! The only life boat says "Governing Body Only", see ya!

In fact they got off at the Cayman's with the JW billion in booty.