What was that with a "wedding shower"? It is not the custom here thank goodness and I thought such displays of materialism were frowned on ...
Yeah, totally weird - that's why I posted it
darkspilver
JoinedPosts by darkspilver
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20
Witness weddings
by dothemath inrecently went to a witness wedding, and after the vows the bride and groom were introduced as "brother and sister".....(then last name).....(then the big kiss).
this is likely not unusual (i've heard it before), but with lots of "worldly" people in attendance it seems out of place to me.. i was just wondering if that's the way it is most places?.
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darkspilver
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Baumgartner - Dr. Mark Morehart: State of Washington Appeal Court - aborted use of cell saver machine
by darkspilver infor information:.
court of appeals of the state of washingtondivision iidocket number: 48070-1file date: 01/24/2017.
keisha baumgartner appeals the summary judgment dismissal of her medical malpractice wrongful death claim against anesthesiologist dr. mark morehart and columbia anesthesia group, p.s.
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darkspilver
(hey dubstepped - I think we're getting caught up in the middle.)
ANY medical procedure has risks - the important thing is knowing those risks, and managing them.
While refusing blood increases those risks in many cases - the issue here is OrphanCrow's arguing that blood transfusions are safer than they actually are - her 'six sigmas' for example - or just 3.4 defects per million opportunites.
The Serious Hazards Of Transfusion organisation studies ALL the issues regarding blood transfusion and publishes an annual report.
Did you know that even merely DONATING blood could be riskier than OrphanCrow's six sigmas?
SHOT's annual report report SAEDs - that's serious adverse events of donation - as well as issues and problems with the use of cell-salvage / cell-savers. It's a pretty comprehensive annual report - but it is 190 pages....
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Baumgartner - Dr. Mark Morehart: State of Washington Appeal Court - aborted use of cell saver machine
by darkspilver infor information:.
court of appeals of the state of washingtondivision iidocket number: 48070-1file date: 01/24/2017.
keisha baumgartner appeals the summary judgment dismissal of her medical malpractice wrongful death claim against anesthesiologist dr. mark morehart and columbia anesthesia group, p.s.
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darkspilver
@ dubstepped: Who said blood transfusions were without risk?
OrphanCrow said that: "blood transfusions are the safest procedure available to the medical profession. The safest. That is a fact. Blood transfusions are the only medical procedure that reaches a six sigma safety rating."
A six sigma safety rating is the equivalent to the occurrence of 3.4 defects per million opportunities - a defect is everything that does not meet customer requirements such as even staying in the hospital one day longer than required or a mistake during the procedure.
https://www.isixsigma.com/industries/healthcare/six-sigma-powerful-strategy-healthcare-providers/
Interestingly The Serious Hazards Of Transfusion - SHOT - is the United Kingdom’s independent, professionally-led haemovigilance scheme, which is funded by the four British Blood Transfusion Services and is based at the Manchester Blood Centre, UK.
They collect statistical data, and present an annual review - 2016 hasn't been published yet, so the latest one is 2015.
http://www.shotuk.org/ -
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Why was Rutherford sent to prison?
by Alfred inwell that was 93 years ago so well probably never know all the facts.
but the wt claims that russell and others were falsely accused of sedition.
the may 9, 1918 new york times article that covered these arrests and sedition charges states that they were charged with spreading doctrines calculated to promote unrest and disloyalty among the men of the army and navy.
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darkspilver
A. H. Macmillan in his book Faith on the March provides more information on the actual charges on pages 92 and 93
Our indictment was in four counts, each count charging a separate and distinct offense under different parts of the statute. This statute, known as the Espionage Law, was enacted June 15, 1917, and was strictly a war measure. It would be impossible to violate it when the country is at peace. The indictment as originally returned charged that a conspiracy was entered into some time between April 6, 1917, the date the United States declared war, and the sixth day of May, 1918. Upon motion the Government specified the date of the alleged offense as between June 15, 1917, and May 6, 1918. A conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit an unlawful act. At the trial the Government contended that The Finished Mystery was written and published designedly to hinder the United States in raising an army and prosecuting the war and that the defendants had written letters to members of the Society within draft age that interfered with the raising of an army. The Finished Mystery was offered in evidence by the Government and portions of it read, particularly the preface, pages 247-252, 406, 407 and 469. The Government counsel contended that these pages were designedly hidden in different parts of the book for the purpose of getting a person interested in some other part of the book and then influencing him by the statements concerning war; that publishing the book, The Bible Students Monthly and The Watch Tower, as well as writing letters to conscientious objectors, all were overt acts in carrying out the conspiracy.
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Why was Rutherford sent to prison?
by Alfred inwell that was 93 years ago so well probably never know all the facts.
but the wt claims that russell and others were falsely accused of sedition.
the may 9, 1918 new york times article that covered these arrests and sedition charges states that they were charged with spreading doctrines calculated to promote unrest and disloyalty among the men of the army and navy.
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darkspilver
This is the Yearbook 1975 version, pages 104 to 108:
On May 7, 1918, the United States District Court for the Eastern District of New York issued a warrant for the arrest of certain principal servants of the Watch Tower Society. Involved were President J. F. Rutherford, Secretary-Treasurer W. E. Van Amburgh, Clayton J. Woodworth and George H. Fisher (the two compilers of The Finished Mystery), F. H. Robison (a member of the Watch Tower editorial committee), A. H. Macmillan, R. J. Martin and Giovanni DeCecca.
On the very next day, May 8, 1918, those of this group who were at Brooklyn Bethel were placed under arrest. Eventually all were in custody. Shortly thereafter they were arraigned in Federal Court, Judge Garvin presiding. All of them were met with an indictment previously returned by the Grand Jury, charging them with
“(1, 3) The offense of unlawfully, feloniously and willfully causing and attempting to cause insubordination, disloyalty and refusal of duty in the military and naval forces of the United States of America, in, through and by personal solicitations, letters, public speeches, distribution and public circulation throughout the United States of America of a certain book called ‘Volume Seven—SCRIPTURES STUDIES—The Finished Mystery’; and distributing and publicly circulating throughout the United States certain articles presented in pamphlets called, ‘BIBLE STUDENTS MONTHLY,’ ‘THE WATCH TOWER,’ ‘KINGDOM NEWS’ and other pamphlets not named, et cetera;
“(2, 4) The offense of unlawfully, feloniously, and willfully obstructing the recruiting and enlistment service of the United States when the United States was at war.”
Principally, the indictment was based on one paragraph in The Finished Mystery. It read: Nowhere in the New Testament is Patriotism (a narrow-minded hatred of other peoples) encouraged. Everywhere and always murder in its every form is forbidden; and yet, under the guise of Patriotism the civil governments of earth demand of peace-loving men the sacrifice of themselves and their loved ones and the butchery of their fellows, and hail it as a duty demanded by the laws of heaven.”
Brothers Rutherford, Van Amburgh, Macmillan and Martin faced a second indictment of trading with the enemy, based on a claim that the Society’s officers sent $500 to the manager of the Swiss branch of the Society at Zurich. Each brother arraigned was held over on bail of $2,500 for each of the indictments. They were released on bail and appeared in court on May 15, 1918. The trial was set for June 3, 1918, in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of New York. The brothers pleaded “not guilty” to both indictments and considered themselves completely innocent of all the charges.
Owing to the feeling manifested in preliminary hearings, the defendants filed affidavits showing why they felt Judge Garvin was biased against them. In time, United States District Judge Harland B. Howe was brought in to preside at the trial. According to A. H. Macmillan, although the defendants were unaware of Howe’s views, the government knew that he “had special prejudice in favor of the prosecution of the law and against the defendants charged with violating it.” Macmillan also stated: “But we were not left long in the dark. From the first conference of the attorneys in the judge’s chambers before the trial began his animosity was manifested, and he indicated, ‘I’m going to give these defendants all that is coming to them.’ However, it was now too late for our attorneys to file an affidavit of prejudice on the part of the judge.”
Macmillan said that the indictment as originally returned charged that the defendants had entered into a conspiracy sometime between April 6, 1917, when the United States declared war, and May 6, 1918. Upon motion the government specified that the date of the alleged offense was between June 15, 1917, and May 6, 1918.
SCENES IN THE COURTROOM
The United States was at war. A court trial of Bible Students on a sedition charge thus attracted great attention. What about public sentiment? It favored anything that would further the war effort. Outside the courtroom bands played and soldiers marched around nearby Brooklyn Borough Hall. Inside the courtroom the fifteen-day trial wore on, piling up a veritable mountain of testimony. Why not step inside and witness the proceedings.
A. H. Macmillan, one of the defendants, helps us to sense the atmosphere, for he later wrote: “During the trial the government said that if a person stood on the street corner and repeated the Lord’s prayer with the intent of discouraging men from joining the army, he could be sent to the penitentiary. So you can see how easy it was for them to interpret intent. They thought they could tell what another person was thinking, and so they acted against us on that basis even though we testified that we never at any time conspired to do anything whatsoever to affect the draft and never encouraged anyone to resist it. It was all to no avail. Certain religious leaders of Christendom and their political allies were determined to get us. The prosecution, with consent of Judge Howe, aimed for conviction, insisting that our motive was irrelevant and that intent should be inferred from our acts. I was found guilty solely on the basis that I countersigned a check, the purpose of which could not be determined, and that I signed a statement of fact that was read by Brother Rutherford at a board meeting. Even then they could not prove that it was my signature. The injustice of this helped us later in our appeal.”
At one point, a former officer of the Society was sworn in. After looking at an exhibit bearing two signatures, he said he recognized one as that of W. E. Van Amburgh. Here the Transcript of Record reads:
“Q. I hand you Exhibit 31 for identification, and ask you to look at the two signatures or purported signatures, of Macmillan and Va[n] Amburgh, and ask you first as to Van Amburgh, if in your opinion that is a mimeograph copy of his signature? A. I think it is. I recognize it as such.
“Q. Mr. MacMillan’s? A. Mr. MacMillan’s is not so recognizable, but I think it is his signature.”
Concerning the defense presented by those on trial, Brother Macmillan later wrote:
“After the Government had completed its case we presented our defense. In essence we showed that the Society is wholly a religious organization; that the members accept as their principles of belief the holy Bible as expounded by Charles T. Russell; that C. T. Russell in his lifetime wrote and published six volumes, Studies in the Scriptures, and as early as 1896 promised the seventh volume which would treat Ezekiel and Revelation; that on his deathbed he stated that someone else would write the seventh volume; that shortly after his death the executive committee of the Society authorized C. J. Woodworth and George H. Fisher to write and submit manuscript for consideration without any promise made concerning publication; that the manuscript on Revelation was completed before the United States got into the war and all the manuscript of the entire book (except a chapter on the Temple) was in the hands of the printer before the enactment of the Espionage Law; hence, it was impossible for any such conspiracy as charged to have been entered into to violate the law.
“We testified that we never at any time combined, agreed or conspired to do anything whatsoever to affect the draft or interfere with the Government in the prosecution of the war, nor did we have any thought of so doing; that we never had any intention of interfering in any manner with the war; that our work was wholly religious and not at all political; that we did not solicit members and never advised or encouraged anyone to resist the draft; that the letters written were to those whom we knew to be dedicated Christians who were entitled under the law to advice; that we were not opposed to the nation going to war, but as dedicated Christians could not engage in mortal combat.”
But not everything said and done at that trial was open and aboveboard. Macmillan later reported: “Some of our people who were attending the trial later told me that one of the attorneys for the Government had gone out into the hallway, where he talked in low tones to some of those who had led the opposition within the Society. They said, ‘Don’t let that fellow [Macmillan] go; he’s the worst of the bunch. He’ll keep things going if you don’t get him with the others.’” Remember that at this time ambitious men had been trying to get control of the Watch Tower Society. No wonder Rutherford later warned brothers left in charge at Bethel: ‘We are advised that seven who opposed the Society and its work during the past year attended upon the trial and lent aid to our prosecutors. We warn you, beloved, against the subtle efforts of some of them to fawn upon you now in an attempt to get hold of the Society.”
Finally, after the lengthy trial, the awaited day of decision arrived. June 20, 1918, at about 5:00 p.m., the case went to the jury. J. F. Rutherford later recalled: “The jury hesitated a long while before rendering a verdict. Finally Judge Howe sent word in to them that they must bring in a verdict of ‘Guilty,’ as one of the jurors afterwards stated to us.” After some four and a half hours of deliberation, at 9:40 p.m., the jury returned with their verdict—“Guilty.”
Sentencing took place on June 21. The courtroom was full. When asked if they had anything to say, the defendants did not respond. Then came the sentence by Judge Howe. Angrily he said: “The religious propaganda in which these men are engaged is more harmful than a division of German soldiers. They have not only called in question the law officers of the Government and the army intelligence bureau but have denounced all the ministers of all the churches. Their punishment should be severe.”
It was. Seven of the defendants were sentenced to eighty years in the penitentiary (twenty years each on four counts, to run concurrently). The sentence for Giovanni DeCecca was delayed, but he ultimately received forty years, or ten years on each of the same four counts. The defendants were to serve their sentences at the United States penitentiary in Atlanta, Georgia.
The trial had lasted for fifteen days. Testimony recorded had been voluminous and the proceedings often unfair. In fact, it was demonstrated later that the trial contained over 125 errors. Only a few of these were needed by the Appellate Court eventually to condemn the whole procedure as unfair.
“I went and suffered through it all with the brothers as they were subjected to this unfair ordeal,” comments James Gwin Zea, who was present as an observer. He continues: “I can still see the judge refusing Brother Rutherford an opportunity to make a defense. ‘The Bible doesn’t go in this court’ was his comment. I stayed with Brother M. A. Howlett in Bethel that night and about ten o’clock word came that they had been convicted. They were sentenced the next day.”
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Witness weddings
by dothemath inrecently went to a witness wedding, and after the vows the bride and groom were introduced as "brother and sister".....(then last name).....(then the big kiss).
this is likely not unusual (i've heard it before), but with lots of "worldly" people in attendance it seems out of place to me.. i was just wondering if that's the way it is most places?.
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darkspilver
Where abouts are you??...
In Delaware it's 'Brother and Sister...' - June 2015 - See at 7.50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua02Wpih1FU
In Florida it's 'Mr and Mrs...' - January 2017 - See at 29.50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5GQMwn3K7gIn California, just cover all bases, and say both!.... March 2016 - See at 6.45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX8ncKsoSmY
Oh, and don't forget to watch the 'Mr and Mrs' above have their Wedding Shower
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIH2ArZ1bcE -
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New light in this weeks WT?
by Indian Larry inanybody have any ideas where they are going with the "new light" they have been pushing last week and this week?
for instance in this weeks study article one section reads:.
in years gone by, we believed that jehovah became displeased with his people because they did not have a zealous share in the preaching work during world war i. we concluded that for this reason, jehovah allowed babylon the great to take them captive for a short time.
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darkspilver
OK, here goes....
What did they actually believe before? (my emphasis)
Watchtower 1 March 2001, page 15, paragraph 17
In 1918 they went into spiritual captivity when leading officers of the Watch Tower Society were imprisoned. The organized preaching work virtually ceased. Then, in 1919, Jehovah restored them and reinvigorated them with his spirit, whereupon they set out to fulfill the commission to preach the good news in all the inhabited earth.
Isaiah Book Vol 2 (2001) page 181, paragraph 4
During the first world war, however, her representatives on earth — anointed Christians — unwittingly broke Jehovah’s law because they did not properly understand true Christian neutrality. Losing divine favor, they came into spiritual captivity to “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion. (Revelation 17:5) Their condition of being in slavery climaxed in June 1918 when eight staff members of the Watch Tower Society were imprisoned on false charges, including conspiracy. At that point the organized preaching of the good news virtually stopped. In 1919, however, a clarion call to spiritual wakefulness was sounded forth. Anointed Christians began to separate themselves more completely from the moral and spiritual uncleanness of Babylon the Great. They rose from the dust of captivity, and “Jerusalem above” came to have the splendor of a “holy city” where spiritual uncleanness is not allowed.
Isaiah Book Vol 2 (2001), page 241, paragraph 16
The climax came in 1918 when the public preaching work virtually stopped and responsible officers of the Watch Tower Society were imprisoned on false charges of sedition. In this way, Jehovah’s modern-day servants went into a spiritual captivity, reminiscent of the physical captivity of the ancient Jews. Great reproach hung over them.Note capacity is tied to the infamous imprisonment of those bethel members from June 1918 to 1919 - and it was: "At that point the organized preaching of the good news virtually stopped." (what does the Study Watchtower for Sunday 29 Jan - paragaph 7 - state about the preaching work during that time, June 1918 to 1919 - no not during 1914, or 1916, that wasn't the time of spiritual capacity)
What do they believe now?Study Watchtower March 2016, pages 29 to 31
Questions From Readers: When were God’s people held captive by Babylon the Great?
That spiritual captivity lasted from the second century C.E. to 1919.NOTE - in the QFR answer below, that infamous imprisonment of those bethel members has been completely dropped from the explaination and isn't mentioned at all... hmmmm....
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UK Daily Mirror: Vampire Farms
by darkspilver infront page of today's daily mirror newspaper in the uk (26 january 2017).
vampire farms exposed: british meat in cruel horse hormone scandal as pregnant mares' blood is injected into pigs.
thousands of pregnant horses are kept on blood farms for fertility product which is then sold to uk vets and factory farmers to help increase production.
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darkspilver
Hi NikL
Those are the red top tabloids - but although they'll print and feature 'sensational' stories, often in more simplistic black and white terms - it doesn't mean that the actual facts behind those stories are inaccurate.
In this instance, The Daily Mirror, decided to give the story maximum coverage with a 'campaigning' front page backed up by a double page spread inside - in contrast to other newspapers, who seem to have responded with their own stories on their websites:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4159146/Inside-vampire-horse-farm.html
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/horse-blood-hormone-used-in-british-bacon-and-sausage-vhkt50xtn
Remember, this is not a new story:
BUT it is The Daily Mirror that has given it wide-spread national coverage.
The Daily Mirror's 'saving grace' is that, in contrast to the majority of the UK national press, it is traditionally a 'working class labour/left-leaning' mass market newspaper, and is probably thought of as the most reliable of the red-tops - partly due to it's background of providing a print outlet for such investigative journalism of noted reporters such as Paul Foot and John Pilger.
On the 'quality' newspaper side, The Guardian (and it's sunday sister title The Observer) are also liberal/left-leaning. Although things have changed now regarding newspaper buying - from experience of visiting JW friends etc, it used to be that, particularly on Sundays, that households would buy BOTH The Observer and The Sunday Mirror. - remember that, although less so nowadays - in broadbrush terms, in the UK, the daily newspaper you read depends on your politics, not on where you live.
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Any updates on the org's $4000 per day fine?
by The Searcher inhttp://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2016/jun/24/ticker-judge-sanctions-jehovahs-witnesses/#.
it's heading towards $900,000 now..
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darkspilver
On Saturday 10 December 2016, Trey Bundy said: "In June, Strauss ordered the Watchtower to pay $4,000 a day until it complied with the court’s order. The Watchtower is appealing."
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UK The Times: "We need to do more to tackle sexual abuse among JWs"
by darkspilver inarticle written by kathleen hallisey appearing on the website of the uk's times newspaper - the article does not appear (yet?
) to be in the print version.. kathleen hallisey is a senior solicitor at bolt burdon kemp, specialising in child abuse.
she acted on behalf of the claimant in the landmark case of a v watchtower [2015] ewhc 1722 (qb), the first judgment against the jehovah’s witnesses in the uk for historical sexual abuse.. in the article she refers to the wt uk child safeguarding policy - click here for a side-by-side 2012/2017 comparision of the document.
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darkspilver
PLEASE NOTE: The original article has been amended. It appears that they forgot to upload the last TWO paragraphs to the website - I've copied them below. You can view the amended complete article here
@ Half banana: Unfortunately most JWs don’t read The Times.
And you do, I hope?
I rechecked my copy of The Times newspaper for Thursday 26 January 2017 (Thursday editions carry a special weekly 'Legal & Law' section) - and I note that the article by Kathleen Hallisey was flagged up as being an 'online exclusive for Times members' in a box in the middle of page 55 - as per the picture below:
The newly added last two paragraphs read as:
