Posts by darkspilver

21

What is the name of this specific book?

by QuestionAskerPersonMan in

i'm taking a class, and we are learning about jws.

my teacher is talking about a "big brown book" that is used for any questions or scriptures quoted by the person who jws are talking to.

he used it in the context that if they don't know the answer off the top of their head, they look for the verse in this book.. what is the name of this book?.

darkspilver

Remember when we say 'magazine size' we mean JW magazine size - ie Watchtower and Awake magazines

Width = 7 1/4 inches

Height = 9 1/4 inches

21

What is the name of this specific book?

by QuestionAskerPersonMan in

i'm taking a class, and we are learning about jws.

my teacher is talking about a "big brown book" that is used for any questions or scriptures quoted by the person who jws are talking to.

he used it in the context that if they don't know the answer off the top of their head, they look for the verse in this book.. what is the name of this book?.

darkspilver

He told me after class that it is about the same size as Reasoning from the Scriptures but was much thicker. Is it still this Comprehensive Concordance then?

No, the Concordance is 'magazine' size for width and height, but about as thick as bible.

Reasoning book is half the size, similiar to the standard song book.

Maybe it was the mini-concordance / scripture index in the back of the Bible?

Or might be one of those customized Bible/Reasoning book combos you used to be able to get?

21

What is the name of this specific book?

by QuestionAskerPersonMan in

i'm taking a class, and we are learning about jws.

my teacher is talking about a "big brown book" that is used for any questions or scriptures quoted by the person who jws are talking to.

he used it in the context that if they don't know the answer off the top of their head, they look for the verse in this book.. what is the name of this book?.

darkspilver

big brown book.... they look for the verse in this book.

Sounds like the Comprehensive Concordance? - about the same size as the old magazine bound volumes, but printed on thin 'bible paper'.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5jNoZSyIWQWd3NrTDd3bVBONUU/view

Search With a Bible Concordance. A Bible concordance is an alphabetic index of words used in the Bible. It can help you locate scriptures that relate to the subject on which you are doing research. As you explore them, you will learn other helpful details. You will see evidence of “the pattern” of truth set forth in God’s Word. (2 Tim. 1:13) The New World Translation contains a basic listing of “Bible Words Indexed.” The Comprehensive Concordance is much more extensive. If it is available in your language, it will direct you to all the texts containing each of the principal words in the Bible.

90

Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial

by darkspilver in

day 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.

jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.

february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.

darkspilver

Mulling this over for a bit....

First I must say that I admire and greatly appreciate anybody who takes the time, effort and financial cost to attend court proceedings with a view to reporting on them.

We've had just one daily update from the court - that of the first day Tuesday 7 Feb, which was posted on this forum on Sunday 12 Feb, by which time the court case was probably effectively finished as the parties settled the following day, on Monday 13 Feb (following negotiations over the weekend?)

I wonder if...

the court room narrative was actually not following the expected road map that those reporting on it had envisioned and was moving forward only slowly, hence lack of daily updates.

the therapist Lori Barton’s notes actually played a far greater role in this than the Plaintiff was expecting (note that Lori Barton was not due to be a witness? hence her notes would have had to stand without any additional explanation)

the Defendants where also actually putting up a stronger defense than might have been expected (due to above?). The case had already run four days (?) and was initially expected to last only five or six days - I wonder how many of the 14 main witnesses had actually been called to testify?, very few I suspect - therefore the Plaintiff would have realised that the court costs where rapidly raising.

It's Wednesday 15 February now. What has happened to the reports from Day 2 Wednesday 8 February; Day 3 Thursday 9 February; and Day 4 Friday 10 February?

Although the court case appears to have been heard in pubic - and is a matter of public record...

I wonder if, due to their having been dialogue between the Plaintiff and those hoping to report (ie give an editorial opinion on the case as it unfolded) - vis-a-vis the reporter having had contact and supplied information to the Plaintiff that was deemed to be useful to the Plaintiff's case - that now the reporter themselves has their own hands tied due to the settlement's gag order.

I do hope we at least get the daily transcripts - the daily reports would have been nice too - but I wonder if the reporter was basically too late in posting them, before the settlement (and gag order) was announced. Which is a big pity considering the time, effort and money they must have put into attending.

39

UK: Paul Shields "abused girls after luring them with video games"

by darkspilver in

fyi from north-east england:.

http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/johovahs-witness-abused-girls-after-12538877.

jehovah's witness abused girls after luring them with video games, court told.

darkspilver

his being df'd DOES only depend on his being found guilty by the congregation.
In the Berry and Fitzgerald case, the abusers went to jail for a period of time, but neither man was df'd from the congregation.

Yes - but this is the other way round? - here it appears the Defendant was DF'd for something that a jury has found the Defendant to be unanimously not guilty of.

It looks like the JC was looking for signs of 'repentance' (hence the emails the Defendant sent) but you can't repent of something that you say you have never done - you can say sorry that your original course of action gave an impression that you did something wrong - and that is apparently what the Defendant expressed in those emails - hence why they seemed 'strange'.

But still it poses the question - after being found unanimously not guilty by a jury - what else, of a sufficiently serious nature could the Defendant have committed that would have warranted the Defendant being DF'd?

The JC must have had evidence of wrongdoing for them to DF the Defendant - from whom?

All I can think of is if the Defendant had been strongly counselled to stop being so 'friendly' with the young girls (ie not letting them sit on his knee, being less touchy-feely, not being alone without another adult etc) as a precaution, and the Defendant brazenly ignored the counsel? But that's all, and that seems unlikely for DF rather than private/public reproof?

The other question is regarding the three witnesses - are they JWs? If so, how does this court case and the outcome effect the congregation's relationship with them?

But this is all (rather fruitless) speculation - we are also very unlikely to find out how the congregation/s involved have/are handling the situation....but I do think the unanimous 'not guilty' verdict by a trial jury will be very unsettling for the congregation publishers.

9

Anointed o es disfellowshipped and then reinstated

by Lostandfound in

sorry if this already covered, have any one seen a professed anointed one disfellowshipped and subsequently reinstated?

still partaking after return.. i witnessed one who had to be "advised" not to attend memorial as his partaking in df state could stumble.

he later told people he observed memorial with emblems privately at home..

darkspilver

There was an earlier Questions from Readers, which seems to be the first direct reference to replacements for unfaithful annointed.

Watchtower 15 June 1970, pages 382 to 384

Questions From Readers: Is God still selecting individuals to be associated with his Son in the heavenly kingdom? Or is it the hope of earthly life that all who dedicate themselves to Jehovah have in this day?
The selecting of Kingdom heirs to be associates with Jesus Christ began on the day of Pentecost, 33 C.E., with the pouring out of God’s spirit upon about 120 of Jesus’ disciples. (Acts 2:1-21) Some sixty years later Jesus Christ revealed to the apostle John that the total number of Kingdom heirs would be 144,000.—Rev. 7:1-8; 14:1-3.
Since Pentecost of 33 C.E., Jehovah God has been selecting those who are to be joint heirs with his Son. It is impossible to say how many down through the centuries were added to the initial thousands mentioned in the book of Acts. (Acts 2:41; 4:4) Even in modern times, until about 1935, the call continued to go forth to bring in the remaining ones of the 144,000, or the “remnant.” Since then, however, the emphasis has been primarily on gathering the “great crowd” of “other sheep,” who have earthly hopes. The “bride” has extended the invitation to these persons to drink life’s water. (Rev. 22:17) Their numbers have been greatly increasing, while the number of those professing to be of the heavenly calling (Heb. 3:1) has been decreasing. These many coming in have, by and large, been looking to the blessings of everlasting life on a paradise earth. Such ones now number several times more than 144,000.—Luke 23:43; John 10:16; Rev. 7:9-15.
Does this mean that, since about 1935, those already resurrected to heaven together with the spirit-begotten remnant yet on earth have made full the number of 144,000? Yes, that is the conclusion to which the evidence points. The general call for such ones has ceased to go out. But this side of the “great tribulation” it is possible for some of these remaining ones on earth to prove unfaithful. (Matt. 24:21, 22) God purposes to have, when his work with them is complete, the full number of 144,000 as faithful ones, with permanent places in the Kingdom. Accordingly, should one of these yet on earth prove unfaithful, his position would have to be filled by a replacement. (1 Cor. 9:27; Rev. 3:11) By whom? It could be by a newly baptized person, or it could be by one of the “great crowd” who has been proving himself a keeper of integrity under test up to that point of time. We cannot limit Jehovah God or Christ Jesus in such selection. But Bible examples and principles would certainly favor the selecting of the time-tested person over the novice, especially in view of the shortness of the remaining time. (Compare Luke 22:28, 29; 1 Timothy 3:6.) God certainly has a large supply of reserves among such faithful “other sheep” to draw upon if he so chooses.
Closely related to this matter of choosing replacements is the ‘sealing’ spoken of at Revelation 7:1-3. The apostle Paul tells us what the sealing is, at Ephesians 1:13, 14: “By means of [Christ] also, after you believed, you were sealed with the promised holy spirit, which is a token in advance of our inheritance.” This “token” gives the assurance that they are chosen ones. It is a pledge of the heavenly life to which they are called, and designates them as God’s spirit-begotten ones, with hope of achieving the final reward of heavenly life if they prove faithful.—2 Cor. 5:5.
Since Pentecost of 33 C.E., then, those who have been called, including Christians in modern times called to the heavenly calling, have received the seal of the holy spirit. One selected as a replacement would likewise receive this seal. What, then, is the sealing of the 144,000 that is completed during the time that the “four winds” of heaven are being held back? The Revelation vision reveals that, finally, 144,000 all retain this seal as permanent. The seal that they received at the time of their calling by God is kept by them, not lost through unfaithfulness. The seal remains in their “foreheads” through test, denoting God’s approval of them as his proved, faithful slaves in the sight of all. They will have their places assured to them as “called and chosen and faithful.” (Rev. 17:14) As pointed out in the book “Then Is Finished the Mystery of God,” page 83, this sealing refers to the “final, irremovable sealing of the full number of dedicated, baptized, anointed Christians, ‘the slaves of our God,’ . . . those who kept the ‘seal of the living God’ upon their foreheads until their final and decisive test, till a martyr’s death, if necessary.”
The apostle Paul, near the end of his earthly ministry, expressed the conviction that he had kept the seal by faithfulness, for he wrote: “The due time for my releasing is imminent. I have fought the fine fight, I have run the course to the finish, I have observed the faith. From this time on there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day.”—2 Tim. 4:6-8.
Recently in various parts of the earth there have appeared some who profess now to be of the remaining ones who have hope of being Kingdom heirs, although having only recently dedicated themselves to Jehovah God. Whether they are in truth and in fact of these prospective Kingdom associates or “remnant” is not for others to judge. It is a matter between the individual and Jehovah God, and time will tell. All who make this claim, however, would do well to ask themselves if their conviction is a holdover from the Babylonish teaching that all good persons go to heaven; or whether it could be due to a misconception, emotionalism, or even a misguided seeking for prominence. (See The Truth That Leads to Eternal Life, pages 78-80.) Those who truly have been begotten by God’s spirit and called to the heavenly hope are certain of it, even as the apostle Paul declares: “The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.”—Rom. 8:16, 17.
In the past, one may have sincerely partaken of the emblems at the celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal but later realized that he was never of the “remnant,” but is of the “great crowd.” Does this make him guilty of partaking of the emblems “unworthily,” within the meaning of Paul’s words at 1 Corinthians 11:27-34? No, not if he was not intentionally showing disrespect for the meaning of these emblems.
The context shows that, in speaking of the judgment one would incur by partaking of the emblems unworthily, Paul had discussed persons who treated the meal as just part of their regular evening meal, some even getting intoxicated at the time. They showed disrespect and hence they belittled the value of the body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Cor. 11:20-22, 33, 34) Certainly those who mistakenly partook under a misimpression, but with all due respect, were not trying to do that. Remember that Paul was writing to “sanctified” ones, “called to be holy ones,” therefore Christians who were under obligation to keep the Lord’s evening meal in remembrance of him, partaking of its emblems. (1 Cor. 1:2) It logically follows also, that any individual knowingly pretending to be of the “remnant” and partaking insincerely, hypocritically, would incur God’s disfavor. So one should certainly first search his heart, along with giving serious consideration to the Scriptures, before partaking. He should be very careful, and be fully convinced before partaking.

90

Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial

by darkspilver in

day 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.

jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.

february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.

darkspilver

The story looks to have been picked up by The Evening Sun which is part of the USA Today Network - though they've just summarized the OP article.

http://www.eveningsun.com/story/news/2017/02/13/sex-abuse-case-spring-grove-church-settles/97868588/

90

Day 5 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Ends: Plaintiff settles in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial

by darkspilver in

day 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff stephanie fessler has decided to settle..... http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html.

jehovah's witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled.

february 13, 2017 at 2:37 pm, updated february 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm.

darkspilver

Day 5 in court - and apparently the plaintiff Stephanie Fessler has decided to settle....

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html

Jehovah's Witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled

February 13, 2017 at 2:37 PM, updated February 13, 2017 at 2:44 PM
PHILADELPHIA - A settlement agreement has been reached, but neither the victim nor the church she said failed to report her sexual abuse to the authorities can talk about it.
On the fifth day of trial Monday in Philadelphia County Court, Stephanie Fessler, of Lancaster, settled the suit she filed against the Jehovah's Witness Church in Spring Grove.
"The matter with the Jehovah's Witnesses has been resolved," her attorney, Jeffrey Fritz, said Monday.
And that was all he could say due to the confidential settlement agreement, which bars all parties from talking about the case or disclosing the amount of the settlement.
http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html

Sorry - I posted here also, but it seemed more appropriate to follow the original OP's format and do a new thread for a new day in court, and so it didn't get buried. See also this 'pre-trial' thread.

64

Day 1 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Opening Statements and Motions in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial

by AndersonsInfo in

news bulletin: fessler versus watchtower – opening statements and motions in jehovah’s witness child abuse trial – day 1. .

posted on february 12, 2017. city hall, philadelphia, pennsylvania.

on a cold philadelphia morning the 7th of february, 2017, stephanie fessler walked into the court of common pleas of pennsylvania, first judicial district, civil trial division.

darkspilver

Looks like it's over.... apparently Stephanie Fessler decided to settle....

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html

Jehovah's Witness sexual-abuse-coverup lawsuit settled

February 13, 2017 at 2:37 PM, updated February 13, 2017 at 2:44 PM
PHILADELPHIA - A settlement agreement has been reached, but neither the victim nor the church she said failed to report her sexual abuse to the authorities can talk about it.
On the fifth day of trial Monday in Philadelphia County Court, Stephanie Fessler, of Lancaster, settled the suit she filed against the Jehovah's Witness Church in Spring Grove.
"The matter with the Jehovah's Witnesses has been resolved," her attorney, Jeffrey Fritz, said Monday.
And that was all he could say due to the confidential settlement agreement, which bars all parties from talking about the case or disclosing the amount of the settlement.
http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html

9

Anointed o es disfellowshipped and then reinstated

by Lostandfound in

sorry if this already covered, have any one seen a professed anointed one disfellowshipped and subsequently reinstated?

still partaking after return.. i witnessed one who had to be "advised" not to attend memorial as his partaking in df state could stumble.

he later told people he observed memorial with emblems privately at home..

darkspilver

It was a Question from Readers.....

Watchtower 1 March 1976, pages 158-159

Questions From Readers: Can an anointed Christian who is disfellowshiped later be reinstated and still have the heavenly hope?
Yes, that is possible. Of course, in each case Jehovah God is the one to determine whether he will extend forgiveness.
The fact that this is possible is borne out by what we read in the apostle Paul’s letters to the Corinthian congregation. He wrote to Christians who had been anointed by holy spirit and given the hope of heavenly life. Paul addressed them as “you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones.”—1 Cor. 1:2; 15:49.
One of these anointed Christians began to practice fornication. When he evidently did not repent and stop his immorality, Paul directed the congregation to disfellowship him. (1 Cor. 5:1-5, 9-13) However, it seems that this disfellowshiped person thereafter did sincerely repent. He is understood to be the person whom Paul was referring to in his second letter when he advised the Corinthians to forgive and accept back the former sinner.—2 Cor. 2:6-11; 7:8-13.
When that man was reinstated into the congregation, what was his hope? Had he lost the heavenly calling, and had his hope now been changed to everlasting life on earth? No, for the earthly hope is not, as it were, a second-chance prospect. Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and multitudes of other persons of outstanding faith had the hope of eternal life on earth, but this was not because they failed to measure up to the heavenly calling. They simply did not live in the time when the heavenly calling was in process according to Jehovah’s will. (Heb. 10:19, 20) Comparable faith and integrity are required of all who will gain everlasting life, whether in heaven or on a paradise earth. A Christian who is anointed with holy spirit and made a joint heir with Christ must prove faithful to that calling if he is to receive eternal life at all.—Rev. 2:10, 11; Phil. 3:8-14; Rom. 8:14-17.
This, though, does not mean that while they are on earth anointed Christians never sin. In the flesh, they are still imperfect and consequently they sin, as do all humans, and may even commit gross sin. The Christian disciple and Bible writer James, certainly an anointed Christian, wrote: “For we all stumble many times. If anyone does not stumble in word, this one is a perfect man.” (Jas. 3:2; 2:5) It appears that such unintentional sin resulting from imperfection is what the apostle John meant by “sin that does not incur death.” (1 John 5:16) God can forgive such sins. John said: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”—1 John 1:9.
But repentance is necessary. If an anointed Christian today practiced gross sin and did not manifest repentance, the congregation, out of obedience to God’s counsel, would have to disfellowship him. If he subsequently repented, though, he could be forgiven and reinstated, as was the man in Corinth.
God does not, however, forgive all sin. According to what Jesus said in Mark 3:28, 29, those who willfully and knowingly blaspheme God’s spirit can never be forgiven. And Paul wrote: “If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment.” (Heb. 10:26, 27) Such unforgivable sin is evidently what John referred to as “sin that does incur death.”—1 John 5:16.
If an anointed Christian sinned against the spirit, practicing willful sin without repentance and ‘impaling the Son of God afresh,’ God would completely and forever reject him. (Heb. 6:4-6) Not being repentant, he would not be reinstated. Jehovah would have to select and anoint another Christian as a replacement so that the full number of 144,000 would be kept complete. It might be compared to heaven’s choice of Matthias to replace unfaithful Judas Iscariot so that there would be twelve faithful apostles of Jesus on which to build the Christian congregation.—Acts 1:23-26; Eph. 2:20.
Is this to say that if an anointed Christian is disfellowshiped, Jehovah then and there selects a replacement? No human can say that, for we cannot know if the disfellowshiped individual has committed the unforgivable sin. Jehovah knows, and so the matter can be left in his hands. Just how and when he chooses to select a replacement is for him to decide. He did not give a detailed discussion of the matter in the Bible. So rather than speculate on what He will do or try to guess whether a disfellowshiped person is beyond the possibility of repentance, we can leave the matter up to Jehovah, the righteous Judge.—Heb. 12:23.
If a congregation has had to disfellowship a person but he later repents and is reinstated, we can rejoice over Jehovah’s mercy and forgiveness. (Luke 15:7) That is so whether the person professed the heavenly hope and continues to do so or had and continues to have hope of everlasting life on earth. All of us should take to heart the lessons learned from this—our own need to fight constantly against imperfection and sin, the importance of seeking forgiveness when we do sin and the necessity of enduring to the end so as to be saved.—Matt. 10:22.