Posts by darkspilver

7

Manchester, New Moston Congregation Charity Commission case.

by freddo in

we have had a week or so of occasional national news and certainly local news about this case in north west england.

it is on the government charity website too.. is anyone able to furnish the forum with any information about how it is being perceived in the local community - especially the local jw's?.

or anywhere else?.

darkspilver

I was very surprised that the Guardian newspaper did not print an article about it - I was definately expecting them to publish something... in fact, out of all the national newspapers, I would have said that the Guardian would have been the newspaper to have printed it, but apparently they didn't.

What 'local news'? - the only one I think that has been mentioned on this forum is the Manchester Evening News? Any other newspapers?

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/_post/5752902951895040

A number of respected UK newspapers included articles about the CC Report on their websites:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/_post/5078681938558976

In addtion two of the above national newspapers - The Daily Telegraph and The Times - published articles in their printed editions the day after:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/_post/5666369427210240

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/_post/5646001215897600

The major local newspaper - Manchester Evening News - published an article in their printed edition:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/_post/5185606223134720

BBC Radio 4 broadcast a segment regarding the CC Report on their Sunday morning religious news and current affairs programme:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/_post/5181899129487360

64

My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

by UnshackleTheChains in

yes folks.

over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

darkspilver

slimboyfat: I don't think so. I think the official JW position now is that gay people are probably born that way but that they should deny themselves.
btlc: Recent articles about homosexuality.... Awake! October 8. 2003; Awake! December 2010

Recent?

There's this one from last year - it was part of a three-page article which was discussed here previously (link at bottom)

Awake Issue 4, 2016

What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality?
Is the Bible’s View Cruel?
What about people who have homosexual inclinations? Were they born that way? If so, would it not be cruel to say that it is wrong for them to act on their desires?
The Bible does not comment on the biology of homosexuality, although it acknowledges that some human traits are deeply ingrained. Still, the Bible says that certain conduct — including homosexual acts — must be shunned if we are to please God. — 2 Corinthians 10:4, 5.
Some would say that the Bible’s position is cruel. But their claim is based on the premise that we must act on our impulses or that sexual impulses in particular are so important that they should not — even cannot — be controlled. However, the Bible dignifies humans by stating that they can resist their urges. Unlike animals, they can choose not to act on their impulses. — Colossians 3:5.
Consider a comparison: Some experts say that certain behavioral traits, such as aggression, may have a biological cause. The Bible does not specifically comment on the biology of aggression, but it does acknowledge that some people are “prone to anger” and “disposed to rage.” (Proverbs 22:24; 29:22) Yet, the Bible also says: “Let go of anger and abandon rage.” — Psalm 37:8; Ephesians 4:31.
Few people would disagree with that advice or say that it is cruel to those who have aggressive tendencies. In fact, even those experts who believe that anger is rooted in a person’s genetic makeup work hard to help people control such tendencies.
Jehovah’s Witnesses take a similar position toward any conduct that conflicts with Bible standards, including sexual acts between two people of the opposite sex who are not married to each other. In all such cases, the Bible counsel applies: “Each one of you should know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not with greedy, uncontrolled sexual passion.” — 1 Thessalonians 4:4, 5.

More discussion regarding this Awake article is here:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6263873405452288/awake-4-2016-homosexuality

11

Speaking of the 144,000...................

by The Fall Guy in

...........why would an all-powerful christ, whom the bible describes as having been given "all authority", need 144,000 other king/priests as "helpers" to run his universal organization?

(matthew 28:18) .

1 corinthians 15:25 - "for he [not 144,000] must rule as king until god has put all enemies under his feet.".

darkspilver

Check out the 9th post:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5138702978252800/why-need-144000-imperfect-humans-rule-christ-jesus-1000-years-he-incapable-ruling-himself

51

I was impressed by part of today's symposium entitled ' Safeguard your children from what is evil'

by UnshackleTheChains in

well i have to give credit where credit is due.

it was the part of today's symposium - build a house that will endure.

the part i was most impressed with was 'safeguard your children from "what is evil".

darkspilver

The big play that the WT take with their meetings is that they are 'family' services - they do not hold any children/youth services, which most other churches probably do.

Therefore another interesting section in the Baptist's Safe To Grow document is:

Chapter 14: Safe practice and safe premises (page 73 to 76)
14.9 Welcoming children into an all-age community
Family or all-age services
The particular challenge of family or all-age services is that no one may understand themselves to be responsible for the formal care of the children and young people who attend.
It is imperative that the parents or carers of children and young people understand the basis on which their children are attending the service.
Any parents/carers who are present should know that they are not entrusting their children into the care of others but remain responsible themselves for the welfare of their children.
http://www.baptist.org.uk/Articles/499204/Safe_to_Grow.aspx

Of course the WT is also very clear in terms of the above - don't they say it is always the parent's responsibility?

Picking up on what UnshackleTheChains said above - the Baptist document (page 74) highlights the concept of the Safeguarding Policy being known about, being read, and being understood by ALL church members, as part of the actual safeguarding process.

These situations highlight the importance of the Safeguarding Children Policy being adopted, owned and understood by the whole church membership. The annual review of the policy should address areas of church life where adults, children and young people come together but where no formal children’s or youth activities are being organised. The report of the review should also give an occasion for educating the church meeting and helping all church members and members of the congregation to understand their responsibilities with regard to safeguarding

51

I was impressed by part of today's symposium entitled ' Safeguard your children from what is evil'

by UnshackleTheChains in

well i have to give credit where credit is due.

it was the part of today's symposium - build a house that will endure.

the part i was most impressed with was 'safeguard your children from "what is evil".

darkspilver

UnshackleTheChains - thanks for the Baptist links

I thought the following section was interesting - seeing it set-out as they have:

'Safe To Grow' document
Page 79: When it is known that a person who has been convicted of sexually abusing children or young people is attending your church
http://www.baptist.org.uk/Articles/499204/Safe_to_Grow.aspx

BTW - weird, it looks like they actually shut down their Child Safeguarding website last year - http://www.safetogrow.org.uk/ - (see pages 65, 71, 77, 80, 81 and back (last) page of above document)

5

BBC Radio News Report On Pedophile Elder Allowed To Cross Examine His Victim

by pale.emperor in

https://youtu.be/jmolpaclsca.

darkspilver

thanks for the link

FYI - the actual Charity Commission's Report itself is being discussed on the following thread since it was released on Wednesday 26 July 2017 (links are also conveniently provided on the thread to the FULL report so people can read it themselves)

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/uk-charity-commision-reports-on-moston-manchester-congregation

also included in the above linked discussion is how it has been reported in both the local (to the area where this all took place) and national newspapers - both online and in the printed newspaper version.

The BBC Radio 4 report was also flagged up here and is being discussed here:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/_post/5181899129487360

45

UK Charity Commision reports on Moston, Manchester Congregation.

by snugglebunny in

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/investigation-leads-to-improvements-in-safeguarding-at-jehovahs-witnesses-charity.

darkspilver

BBC Radio 4 - Sunday 30 July 2017 - 7.10 to 7.55
SUNDAY - "Jehovah's Witness, Trafficking, Arts & Craft Stained Glass"
The Charity Commission have published a critical report into how the Jehovah's Witnesses managed allegations of child sex abuse at the Manchester New Moston congregation. Kathleen Hallisey a lawyer for survivors and Harvey Grenville, Head of Investigations and Enforcement at the Charity Commission discuss the issues with Edward.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08z97zy
(The radio programme is actually called 'Sunday')

Version on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcjLW-hSsh8

45

UK Charity Commision reports on Moston, Manchester Congregation.

by snugglebunny in

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/investigation-leads-to-improvements-in-safeguarding-at-jehovahs-witnesses-charity.

darkspilver

yeah - that's why I said "how the JWs dealt with it" - it's not just the face-to-face meetings but also by the very serious 'conflict-of-interest' issues that where revealed too.

9

Facebook shuts ex j-dub site for "hate speech"

by GoneAwol in

sorry if this has been posted, havnt had much time to look..

darkspilver

It may have been temporarily unavailable, but the Facebook page is still accessible:

I think that's a new 'page'?

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/6pvj6k/facebook_shuts_down_exjw_group_for_hate_speech/

Also, compare with: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/6o6fiz/the_truth_about_jwfacts_facebook_hate_page/

45

UK Charity Commision reports on Moston, Manchester Congregation.

by snugglebunny in

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/investigation-leads-to-improvements-in-safeguarding-at-jehovahs-witnesses-charity.

darkspilver

So they're still intending to investigate abuse accusations internally without reporting them to the authorities. What does it take to get through to these people?

In this case that they're commenting on, the perpetrator was known and had been dealt with by the authorities. The main issue that appears to have picked up is how the JWs dealt with it after (the face-to-face JC meetings).

Remember the - reverse - situation happens too:

Courts find alleged perpetrator not guilty - BUT the JW's find guilty and DF.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5656118292381696/uk-paul-shields-abused-girls-after-luring-them-video-games