Posts by darkspilver

49

Rookie exJW Question

by Phoebe in

jw
friends

i was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.

every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.

i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.

darkspilver

NONSENSE: I collect the sales tax from all my customers. They don't have to register. I do. I pay that sales tax that I collect directly from my checking account.

But isn't that the whole point? the same principle would apply to individual JWs and THEIR customers.

I think that it was the WT-JW relationship / concept that the WT did not want to be formalized - the WT wanted:

The individual JW are selling to THEIR own customers - ie the householder

The individual JW are NOT agents of the WT (the WT is very clear about this regarding liability)

Thus, just like YOU collecting sales tax from your customers and paying, the individual JWs would collect sales tax and pay it.

If the JW where acting on behalf of the WT, like being agents, then the WT would pay - but the WT does not want that liability.

49

Rookie exJW Question

by Phoebe in

jw
friends

i was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.

every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.

i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.

darkspilver

Phoebe: I was in the U.K. so we asked for donations.

Really? I didn't think you where allowed too, not unless the householder asked first.....

BoE Letter January 12, 2016 - Re: March Issue of the Life and Ministry—Meeting Workbook
From time to time, it may be necessary for us to write to each congregation giving guidance on specific parts in the Life and Ministry Meeting Workbook. For example, during the week of March 21-27, under the section "Apply Yourself to the Field Ministry," the "Initial Call" assignment directs the student to mention the donation arrangement. As a reminder, in Britain and Ireland, we do not ordinarily raise the matter of donations unless the householder asks. Therefore, in this scenario the householder should enquire about the funding of our work and the student can then provide details regarding the donation arrangement.
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5923059802308608/2016-1-12-boe-mentioning-donation-arrangement-householder

49

Rookie exJW Question

by Phoebe in

jw
friends

i was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.

every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.

i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.

darkspilver

I and everyone I knew, truly believed it was something directed by Jehovah.

But then why wasn't it introduced worldwide at the same or very similiar time?

It got confusing for JWs travellling around Europe in the early 1990s

Where you in a 'charging' or 'donation' country?

Remember it wasn't just for the ministry - it effected EVERY JW because it included their personal copies too that they picked up at the KH.

49

Rookie exJW Question

by Phoebe in

jw
friends

i was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.

every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.

i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.

darkspilver

crofty: Thanks for the time line

be aware that I understand that the actual introduction of the 'donation arrangement' in the above time line refers to the USA.

It appears to have taken nearly three years (January 1993?) before it was introduced elsewhere, such as in Britain:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/73117/_post/1169585

49

Rookie exJW Question

by Phoebe in

jw
friends

i was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.

every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.

i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.

darkspilver

I understood the basic issue in the Jimmy Swaggart case was whether tax needed to be paid on 'religious' books and magazines that where sold?

And that was an important principle that would effect many religious organizations

The JWs were effectively selling their publications, so if tax needed to be paid, the WT would have needed to also pay the tax - hence the WT had a 'vested' interest in the outcome of the court case.

The WT thus became a:

https://www.google.com/search?q=friend+of+the+court

someone who is not a party to a case and is not solicited by a party, but who assists a court by offering information that bears on the case.

And of course, following the case, the WT went down the 'literature donation' path... which some believe was the first 'trigger' in the WT's apparent financial problems that continues to have ramifications down to day - by removing a consistent revenue stream - maybe they should've just kept charging, and paid the tax...

there's more here, as you may have already read:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/129627/jehovahs-witnesses-jimmy-swaggart

8

UK Charity Comission Contacted Me Re Speke Congregation Of Jehovah's Witnesses

by pale.emperor in

hi guys,.

following on from my earlier threat about huge amounts of money simply vanishing from my old congregations bank account with nothing to show for it (here: https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5742472565096448/satisfying-decline-my-old-congregations-donations) - i actually did take someones advice and requested the uk charity commission to investigate.

i was called today by a person who is not investigating this.

darkspilver

any update, reply or acknowledgement?

10

What is Ibid?

by Belladonna75 in

hi all, i'm diving deep into historical jw literature research and i keep seeing ibid as a frequently cited source - what is this?

i've tried the old google, but no luck.

does this stand for something (i'm probably missing something incredibly obvious) or have i spent too many hours reading 1930s the golden age magazines and depleted all my electrons already?

darkspilver

Belladonna75: I've tried the old google, but no luck.
Diogenesister: By the way Its something most people learn at uni, so another practical disadvantage witnesses have due to Watchtower policy of no higher education.

haha!

Google seems to work?... what was the problem you had with using it Belladonna75?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Ibid
https://www.google.com/search?q=sic
https://www.google.com/search?q=op.%20cit.

7

Manchester, New Moston Congregation Charity Commission case.

by freddo in

we have had a week or so of occasional national news and certainly local news about this case in north west england.

it is on the government charity website too.. is anyone able to furnish the forum with any information about how it is being perceived in the local community - especially the local jw's?.

or anywhere else?.

darkspilver

Hey dozy

IMHO this is why getting articles into printed newspapers is important.

It is the printed newspapers that lead audience engagement - AND it is still the printed newspapers that both lead and shape the news agenda that is subsequently picked up and discussed on radio programmes and on TV programmes (both news-style and life-style type programmes)

In a recent study: Newspaper Consumption in the Mobile Age:

This article combines data from the British National Readership Survey, the Audit Bureau of Circulations, and comScore to calculate how much audience attention newspapers’ print, PC, and mobile platforms attract. The results show that, of the time spent with 11 UK national newspaper brands by their British audiences, 88.5 per cent still comes via their print editions, 7.49 per cent via mobiles, and just 4 per cent via PCs
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1461670X.2017.1279028?journalCode=rjos20
http://neilthurman.com/timespent.pdf

20

Is There Anywhere To Go for an Outed JW elder/pedophile enabler?

by mrmagic in

since the australian royal commission, a lot of jw elders have been outed for either being pedophiles/molesters or for enabling it.

the jw elders who enabled it, are publicly outed to their community online and offline.

it's become a congregational matter with the entire kingdom hall and someone said that this elder would lose his eldership possibly, due to it "being known in the congregation and community" that he enabled child sexual abuse.

darkspilver

I wonder how the elders in the New Moston, Manchester, England case are faring? The ones that sparked the UK Charity Commission investigation - because they made the sex abuse survivors testify against their abuser face to face - which in turn has made the national news and mainstream media this week?

The case is rather complicated and covers a number of years, but...

I didn't think that it was actually the New Moston local elders/trustees that did that? - I thought the ONLY face-to-face meeting was presided over and organised by the 4 member appeal committee, NONE of whom where local elders/trustees, but where (experienced) elders from other congregations?

I thought that was the point - when the local New Moston elders/trustees had organised the previous JCs, they hadn't arranged for face-to-face meetings.

Have I understood the CC Report right?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/manchester-new-moston-congregation-of-jehovahs-witnesses-inquiry-report/manchester-new-moston-congregation-of-jehovahs-witnesses

7

Manchester, New Moston Congregation Charity Commission case.

by freddo in

we have had a week or so of occasional national news and certainly local news about this case in north west england.

it is on the government charity website too.. is anyone able to furnish the forum with any information about how it is being perceived in the local community - especially the local jw's?.

or anywhere else?.

darkspilver

daveysmithy30: The Guardian did publish an article

Thanks, yes, as per my links above, the Guardian did have an article on their website.

BUT

As far as I have seen with my own copies of the Guardian's PRINTED newspaper - they did not print anything in the actual newspaper - that was my surprise: nothing in the printed newspaper.