darkspilver

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Posts by darkspilver

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  49

  Rookie exJW Question

  by Phoebe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.

  every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.

  i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.

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  darkspilver

  I understood the basic issue in the Jimmy Swaggart case was whether tax needed to be paid on 'religious' books and magazines that where sold?

  And that was an important principle that would effect many religious organizations
  

  The JWs were effectively selling their publications, so if tax needed to be paid, the WT would have needed to also pay the tax - hence the WT had a 'vested' interest in the outcome of the court case.

  The WT thus became a:

  https://www.google.com/search?q=friend+of+the+court
  

  someone who is not a party to a case and is not solicited by a party, but who assists a court by offering information that bears on the case.

  And of course, following the case, the WT went down the 'literature donation' path... which some believe was the first 'trigger' in the WT's apparent financial problems that continues to have ramifications down to day - by removing a consistent revenue stream - maybe they should've just kept charging, and paid the tax...

  there's more here, as you may have already read:
  

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/129627/jehovahs-witnesses-jimmy-swaggart
  
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  8

  UK Charity Comission Contacted Me Re Speke Congregation Of Jehovah's Witnesses

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  hi guys,.

  following on from my earlier threat about huge amounts of money simply vanishing from my old congregations bank account with nothing to show for it (here: https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5742472565096448/satisfying-decline-my-old-congregations-donations) - i actually did take someones advice and requested the uk charity commission to investigate.

  i was called today by a person who is not investigating this.

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  darkspilver

  any update, reply or acknowledgement?
  
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  10

  What is Ibid?

  by Belladonna75 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi all, i'm diving deep into historical jw literature research and i keep seeing ibid as a frequently cited source - what is this?

  i've tried the old google, but no luck.

  does this stand for something (i'm probably missing something incredibly obvious) or have i spent too many hours reading 1930s the golden age magazines and depleted all my electrons already?

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  darkspilver

  Belladonna75: I've tried the old google, but no luck.

  Diogenesister: By the way Its something most people learn at uni, so another practical disadvantage witnesses have due to Watchtower policy of no higher education.
  

  haha!

  Google seems to work?... what was the problem you had with using it Belladonna75?
  
  https://www.google.com/search?q=Ibid
  https://www.google.com/search?q=sic
  https://www.google.com/search?q=op.%20cit.
  
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  7

  Manchester, New Moston Congregation Charity Commission case.

  by freddo in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  we have had a week or so of occasional national news and certainly local news about this case in north west england.

  it is on the government charity website too.. is anyone able to furnish the forum with any information about how it is being perceived in the local community - especially the local jw's?.

  or anywhere else?.

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  darkspilver

  Hey dozy

  IMHO this is why getting articles into printed newspapers is important.

  It is the printed newspapers that lead audience engagement - AND it is still the printed newspapers that both lead and shape the news agenda that is subsequently picked up and discussed on radio programmes and on TV programmes (both news-style and life-style type programmes)
  

  In a recent study: Newspaper Consumption in the Mobile Age:
  

  This article combines data from the British National Readership Survey, the Audit Bureau of Circulations, and comScore to calculate how much audience attention newspapers’ print, PC, and mobile platforms attract. The results show that, of the time spent with 11 UK national newspaper brands by their British audiences, 88.5 per cent still comes via their print editions, 7.49 per cent via mobiles, and just 4 per cent via PCs

  http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1461670X.2017.1279028?journalCode=rjos20

  http://neilthurman.com/timespent.pdf
  
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  20

  Is There Anywhere To Go for an Outed JW elder/pedophile enabler?

  by mrmagic in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  since the australian royal commission, a lot of jw elders have been outed for either being pedophiles/molesters or for enabling it.

  the jw elders who enabled it, are publicly outed to their community online and offline.

  it's become a congregational matter with the entire kingdom hall and someone said that this elder would lose his eldership possibly, due to it "being known in the congregation and community" that he enabled child sexual abuse.

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  darkspilver

  I wonder how the elders in the New Moston, Manchester, England case are faring? The ones that sparked the UK Charity Commission investigation - because they made the sex abuse survivors testify against their abuser face to face - which in turn has made the national news and mainstream media this week?

  The case is rather complicated and covers a number of years, but...
  

  I didn't think that it was actually the New Moston local elders/trustees that did that? - I thought the ONLY face-to-face meeting was presided over and organised by the 4 member appeal committee, NONE of whom where local elders/trustees, but where (experienced) elders from other congregations?
  

  I thought that was the point - when the local New Moston elders/trustees had organised the previous JCs, they hadn't arranged for face-to-face meetings.

  Have I understood the CC Report right?
  

  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/manchester-new-moston-congregation-of-jehovahs-witnesses-inquiry-report/manchester-new-moston-congregation-of-jehovahs-witnesses
  
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  7

  Manchester, New Moston Congregation Charity Commission case.

  by freddo in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  we have had a week or so of occasional national news and certainly local news about this case in north west england.

  it is on the government charity website too.. is anyone able to furnish the forum with any information about how it is being perceived in the local community - especially the local jw's?.

  or anywhere else?.

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  darkspilver

  daveysmithy30: The Guardian did publish an article

  Thanks, yes, as per my links above, the Guardian did have an article on their website.

  BUT
  

  As far as I have seen with my own copies of the Guardian's PRINTED newspaper - they did not print anything in the actual newspaper - that was my surprise: nothing in the printed newspaper.
  
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  7

  Manchester, New Moston Congregation Charity Commission case.

  by freddo in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  we have had a week or so of occasional national news and certainly local news about this case in north west england.

  it is on the government charity website too.. is anyone able to furnish the forum with any information about how it is being perceived in the local community - especially the local jw's?.

  or anywhere else?.

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  darkspilver

  I was very surprised that the Guardian newspaper did not print an article about it - I was definately expecting them to publish something... in fact, out of all the national newspapers, I would have said that the Guardian would have been the newspaper to have printed it, but apparently they didn't.
  

  What 'local news'? - the only one I think that has been mentioned on this forum is the Manchester Evening News? Any other newspapers?
  

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/_post/5752902951895040

  A number of respected UK newspapers included articles about the CC Report on their websites:
  

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/_post/5078681938558976

  In addtion two of the above national newspapers - The Daily Telegraph and The Times - published articles in their printed editions the day after:
  

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/_post/5666369427210240

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/_post/5646001215897600
  

  The major local newspaper - Manchester Evening News - published an article in their printed edition:

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/_post/5185606223134720

  BBC Radio 4 broadcast a segment regarding the CC Report on their Sunday morning religious news and current affairs programme:

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4906571056283648/_post/5181899129487360
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  64

  My jaw dropping OMG moment at the end of the convention

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  yes folks.

  over the past few days i can honestly say the convention was relatively quite good.

  most of the talks, videos, symposiums were in line with scripture if you have faith in the bible.

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  darkspilver

  slimboyfat: I don't think so. I think the official JW position now is that gay people are probably born that way but that they should deny themselves.
  

  btlc: Recent articles about homosexuality.... Awake! October 8. 2003; Awake! December 2010
  

  Recent?

  There's this one from last year - it was part of a three-page article which was discussed here previously (link at bottom)
  
  
  Awake Issue 4, 2016
  

  What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality?

  Is the Bible’s View Cruel?

  What about people who have homosexual inclinations? Were they born that way? If so, would it not be cruel to say that it is wrong for them to act on their desires?

  The Bible does not comment on the biology of homosexuality, although it acknowledges that some human traits are deeply ingrained. Still, the Bible says that certain conduct — including homosexual acts — must be shunned if we are to please God. — 2 Corinthians 10:4, 5.

  Some would say that the Bible’s position is cruel. But their claim is based on the premise that we must act on our impulses or that sexual impulses in particular are so important that they should not — even cannot — be controlled. However, the Bible dignifies humans by stating that they can resist their urges. Unlike animals, they can choose not to act on their impulses. — Colossians 3:5.

  Consider a comparison: Some experts say that certain behavioral traits, such as aggression, may have a biological cause. The Bible does not specifically comment on the biology of aggression, but it does acknowledge that some people are “prone to anger” and “disposed to rage.” (Proverbs 22:24; 29:22) Yet, the Bible also says: “Let go of anger and abandon rage.” — Psalm 37:8; Ephesians 4:31.

  Few people would disagree with that advice or say that it is cruel to those who have aggressive tendencies. In fact, even those experts who believe that anger is rooted in a person’s genetic makeup work hard to help people control such tendencies.

  Jehovah’s Witnesses take a similar position toward any conduct that conflicts with Bible standards, including sexual acts between two people of the opposite sex who are not married to each other. In all such cases, the Bible counsel applies: “Each one of you should know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not with greedy, uncontrolled sexual passion.” — 1 Thessalonians 4:4, 5.

  More discussion regarding this Awake article is here:
  

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6263873405452288/awake-4-2016-homosexuality
  
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  11

  Speaking of the 144,000...................

  by The Fall Guy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ...........why would an all-powerful christ, whom the bible describes as having been given "all authority", need 144,000 other king/priests as "helpers" to run his universal organization?

  (matthew 28:18) .

  1 corinthians 15:25 - "for he [not 144,000] must rule as king until god has put all enemies under his feet.".

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  darkspilver

  Check out the 9th post:
  

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5138702978252800/why-need-144000-imperfect-humans-rule-christ-jesus-1000-years-he-incapable-ruling-himself
  
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  51

  I was impressed by part of today's symposium entitled ' Safeguard your children from what is evil'

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  well i have to give credit where credit is due.

  it was the part of today's symposium - build a house that will endure.

  the part i was most impressed with was 'safeguard your children from "what is evil".

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  darkspilver

  The big play that the WT take with their meetings is that they are 'family' services - they do not hold any children/youth services, which most other churches probably do.

  Therefore another interesting section in the Baptist's Safe To Grow document is:
  

  Chapter 14: Safe practice and safe premises (page 73 to 76)
  

  14.9 Welcoming children into an all-age community

  Family or all-age services

  The particular challenge of family or all-age services is that no one may understand themselves to be responsible for the formal care of the children and young people who attend.

  It is imperative that the parents or carers of children and young people understand the basis on which their children are attending the service.

  Any parents/carers who are present should know that they are not entrusting their children into the care of others but remain responsible themselves for the welfare of their children.
  

  http://www.baptist.org.uk/Articles/499204/Safe_to_Grow.aspx
  

  Of course the WT is also very clear in terms of the above - don't they say it is always the parent's responsibility?
  

  Picking up on what UnshackleTheChains said above - the Baptist document (page 74) highlights the concept of the Safeguarding Policy being known about, being read, and being understood by ALL church members, as part of the actual safeguarding process.
  
  

  These situations highlight the importance of the Safeguarding Children Policy being adopted, owned and understood by the whole church membership. The annual review of the policy should address areas of church life where adults, children and young people come together but where no formal children’s or youth activities are being organised. The report of the review should also give an occasion for educating the church meeting and helping all church members and members of the congregation to understand their responsibilities with regard to safeguarding