Posts by darkspilver

57

interesting EX-CO AMA ( Ask Me Anything) over on exjwreddit

by Diogenesister in

ex-circuit overseer here, ama.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/6usaky/excircuit_overseer_here_ama/.

darkspilver

More answers....

What were you providing by way of training or training materials?

Ha ha training materials. All of us in the circuit work in that country used to joke about that. "Where are our training materials? Where is the training book?"

There was no book. I received a letter stating I was invited to CO training in two months time and prior to that to prepare three service talks adaptable to different situations. The training was two weeks long. I observed a CO for one week serving a congregation, I didn't give any talks or preside over anything. Then I served the next congregation and he observed me. Then that Sunday evening we sat down and he reviewed my performance and sent his recommendations to the Branch. Three weeks later I received my appointment and my circuit assignment. That's it! I received a copy of all letters to Circuit Overseers from 1973 on, some said to make sure we start the week Tuesday at 1 pm. Others talked about judicial matters. Others talked about assembly prep. It seems so bizarre that they would give us such a position with so little training. The Branch Organization Manual which was kept in the Branch Office Library, some of you have seen this, has a page or two on Circuit Overseers. It says they should be "seasoned elders and experienced pioneers." So usually a CO has a lot of elder experience. I had three years experience. by that time. After I was a CO for three years or so, I started to train other elders as CO's. Same thing. They would accompany me for a week observing, then I would observe them for a week. Then I wrote my recommendation to the Branch. I trained 7 elders to be CO's, I recommended 6 of them. One guy was so clueless even I couldn't recommend him.

But it's a joke, really. Where was the real training to actually help people? People on here keep asking the same valid question, where was your real training?

There was none.

Its a joke. Men dressing up in suits acting like they know how to tell others how to live.

Can you give a quick summary of your personal progression from unbaptized publisher through to CO, including approximate ages for each event?

My personal progression? Publisher at 5 years old. Baptized at 15. Pioneer at 16. MS at 20. MTS at 23. Missionary at 24. Appointed elder at my assignment at 24. CO at 28.

Did you ever stay in people's houses, or were you always based in a missionary home? Apparently caravans where quite common in the US for COs to have massive caravans they would park at the Kingdom Halls.

For the first two years I had no car. I rode the bus and stayed in people's houses. Poor, rural areas. I slept on a squeaky cot with a sheet separating me from the rest of the family. No hot water. Showering with a bucket like they did. Mosquitos and dust everywhere. After I actually drove a car down there, I bought it here in the US and drove 5 days with another brother all the way to my assignment, it was a salvage vehicle that I towed with a pickup truck, I had a car! I had it fixed and then I drove everywhere. After that I always went back to the missionary home at night.

I used to see the huge RV's (Caravans) the CO's here used to have. Nice. But I was young and I liked being out there in the missionary field. At least I told myself that.

You say that most inactive were offended by something - does this mean that no one you called on ever had a valid reason (to you) for leaving? Did you always just write people off like that?

That's correct. In my arrogance no one was ever right in leaving. I used to tell the illustration of a person walking into the Kingdom Hall and someone tripping them. They fell onto the ground and refused to get up and go in. They were so angry at the person who tripped them they didn't get up. They just stayed on the ground. So too friends, do we blame Jehovah when someone stumbles us? Bla bla bla.

Thinking back now I am sure some became inactive due to figuring out it is a scam. I sure didn't think that before.

Tuesday used to be a meeting day, correct? So when did this meeting with the secretary happen? After the meeting or before it?

Every Tuesday the CO meets with the Secretary of the congregation he is serving to go over the records.

ADDED NOTES:
Previously, during the week of the CO visit, the congregation would have a meeting at the KH on Tuesday and Thursday evening. Currently the same pattern continues but the Thursday meeting has been dropped. If the congregation shares the KH, the meeting evenings would be moved around to enable the congregation with the CO visit to always have a Tuesday evening meeting.
Organised to do Jehovah's Will, page 45
Tuesday afternoon, the circuit overseer examines the Congregation’s Publisher Record cards, meeting attendance records, territory records, and the accounts. This will give him some insight into possible needs of the congregation and how he may be of assistance to those responsible for keeping these records. The coordinator of the body of elders should make arrangements for the circuit overseer to receive the records in advance. Sometime before the Tuesday evening meeting, the circuit overseer meets with the coordinator or another local elder to discuss any questions he has as a result of reviewing the records.

18

Another lie. This time from the UK Branch

by alanv in

andrew schofield, a spokesman for jehovah’s witnesses in britain, states: “for almost 60 years, our administrative operations for britain have been located in london.

however, larger facilities became necessary due to the increased demand for bible-related literature and materials.

we began site preparation on the 34-hectare (approx.

darkspilver

alanv: Andrew Schofield, a spokesman for Jehovah’s Witnesses in Britain, states: “For almost 60 years, our administrative operations for Britain have been located in London."

FYI the quote is here: https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/united-kingdom/branch-office-breeam-rating-sustainable-design/

FAKE

Mr Schofield, even forgetting about the 'spin of increased demand', it appears you can't even get basic FACTS correct. And you should have 'studied' this less than a year ago!

Neither, in this instance (on the WT's own website), can you make the excuse that you where 'mis-quoted' or quoted 'out-of-context'.

Actually: "For almost 117 years, our administrative operations for Britain have been located in London."

Let's refresh:

God's Kingdom Rules! Chapter 2, page 29

Box: Prepared for the Birth of the Kingdom
1900: First branch office established in London, England

Oh. You should have 'studied' the above in the mid-week meeting in October 2016.

Here's a list to help you:

1900: Gipsy Lane (now known as Green Street), Forest Gate, London (8 miles from Charing Cross, the 'center of London')
1903: Eversholt Street, Euston, London (1.5 miles to Charing Cross)
1911: Craven Terrace, Lancaster Gate, London (2.5 miles to Charing Cross)
1959: The Ridgeway, Mill Hill, London (9 miles to Charing Cross)
2019: Temple Farm, Chelmsford, Essex (outside London and 31 miles from Charing Cross)

If you can't even get basic info right - why should we believe the rest of what you say?

And thanks to alanv for picking this up

24

September 11, 2017 Re: Global Assistance Arrangement for the 2018 Service Year

by wifibandit in

september 11, 2017 to all congregations in the united states re: global assistance arrangement for the 2018 service year.

darkspilver

sir82: I suspect the extortion amount is less per head in other parts of the world.

yeah, looking at previous year's - the British-per-publisher rate is about half the USA rate

24

September 11, 2017 Re: Global Assistance Arrangement for the 2018 Service Year

by wifibandit in

september 11, 2017 to all congregations in the united states re: global assistance arrangement for the 2018 service year.

darkspilver

Slidin Fast: The letter only refers to WT property, no genuine charitable help whatsoever.

That's kinda the point - it's not meant to be for 'charity' - AFAIK by joining up with the GAA, congregations avoid having to pay for commercial insurances (which would cost more?)

TO-57 Key Facts About the Global Assistance Arrangement

What is the Global Assistance Arrangement:
1. The Global Assistance Arrangement (GAA) is a means by which the organization sets aside funds to pay for expenses related to accidental loss. This includes property damage to Kingdom Halls, to Assembly Halls, and to branch facilities as well as liability claims against legal entities used by Jehovah’s Witnesses. The GAA will not be used to repair damage resulting from normal wear-and-tear or deterioration of property or for other maintenance needs.
2. The GAA is not a commercial insurance program. The Risk Management Desk in the Accounting Department administers the operation of the GAA in the branch territory. This arrangement is used to make virtually all applicable loss payments. It may also be used to purchase commercial “excess” insurance to protect legal entities and properties from large claims or catastrophic losses or to purchase insurance coverage that is legally mandated. Since loss payments would involve the use of donated funds, it is important that priority be given to safety and maintenance so as to prevent loss whenever possible.
PDF: https://jw.servehttp.com/en/document.php?is=TO-57-E_14.pdf

24

September 11, 2017 Re: Global Assistance Arrangement for the 2018 Service Year

by wifibandit in

september 11, 2017 to all congregations in the united states re: global assistance arrangement for the 2018 service year.

darkspilver

jwleaks: At the mandatory Watchtower published donation amount of US$14 per active publisher the GAA could raise cash reserves of US$116,773,748 (approx. $117 million) per year or US$977 per congregation per year.

Proof? Because that seems to be very USA-centric ?

I think the key word is 'could', because actually the majority of JWs actually DON'T live in the USA

The GAA (including CO travel) for the 2017 Service Year was

The USA rate was $14.00-per-publisher
The UK rate was $3.69-per-pubisher

Even excluding the CO travel part - the UK-per-publisher rate for the GAA is still less than half what the USA rate is.

And here's my proof: https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5710501243781120/2016-09-21-boe-re-global-assistance-arrangement-2017-service-year

57

interesting EX-CO AMA ( Ask Me Anything) over on exjwreddit

by Diogenesister in

ex-circuit overseer here, ama.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/6usaky/excircuit_overseer_here_ama/.

darkspilver

ENCORE???...... YES!

Here goes......

There's one thing I've never understood: How do missionaries go door to door in foreign countries?

The first three months in my assignment are spent with mornings in the ministry and then 4 hours of Language class in the afternoon , usually taught by an older missionary. Our little class had me, another MTS grad and two couples from Gilead. After those three months I was conversational enough, though it took me two years to get fairly fluent.

Tell us more about your time at Bethel! I know you can't get too specific, but I would love to know what your thoughts about Bethel were at the time and what they are now. Also comparing US Bethel to the Central American Bethel.
In poor countries, is the standard of living at Bethel higher than on the outside? In other words is it more advantageous from a purely economical perspective to go to Bethel than to not?

I stayed only occasionally at the local Branch since I lived mostly in a missionary home. In comparing the Central American Bethel to the local loving standard, it was WAY higher. Eating meat every day, nice rooms with a television. There was no air conditioning but it was cool in there. Some of the local Bethelites were so poor they lived in houses with dirt floors. So when they came to Bethel they used to spit on the floors in their rooms. Hey had to be taught not to do that. They also got a monthly stipend. They didn't get rich but it was a nicer life.
There are a few very rich families in Central America that live in mansions and have maids and cooks and chauffeurs. A few of them are actually Witnesses. They would NEVER apply to Bethel. Too much work and no servants.

What it's like to be a Circuit Overseer - Part 1

I was in the circuit work from 1993 to 2000. Many things were different then, plus I served in a foreign country and I lived mostly in a missionary home. My comments are mine of course and other CO's may have completely different feelings about the circuit work. I did however interact with a lot of other CO's and DO's and hear their personal thoughts, which were often strikingly similar. There was always another CO or DO living in the missionary home where I lived, some were locals and some were missionaries as well. We would talk and compare notes every week. Also, while I vacationed here in the States, I would visit other CO's to get advice, we would talk for a long time. I enjoyed the camaraderie even though they were usually way older than me. We felt the same about a lot of things. I guess what I am trying to say is that a lot of CO's feel the same as I did, they just won't tell you, just as I wouldn't have told you back then.

Anyway, for what it's worth, here is my take:

Tuesday afternoon.

Time to find the Kingdom Hall for that week and go over the records. It was always hot and sometimes I had a hard time finding the Hall. I would sit with the Secretary and go over the numbers. I would pull the last Circuit Overseers report and see what he wrote they needed to work on and I would ask the Secretary what they had done to apply the last CO's recommendations. I would see the percentage of meeting attendance versus publisher count. Usually it was over 100% on Sundays, a lot of non-publisher children were counted, and way less attendance during the week. I looked at the number of new publishers, newly baptized, how many were disfellowshipped and for what, who was deleted as elder or servant and why, who became inactive, what major problems were going on, etc. Mostly it was crunching numbers, though.

I would also see who they wanted to recommend for elder and servant. And I would try and get the secretary to talk to me about congregation problems and matters while I did the numbers, so I wouldn't have to stay too long. There was always at least one disfellowshipping and a reproof or two and they would always tell me why. Fornication or adultery usually. I also looked at the pioneers publishers cards, at those who had become inactive and I would ask why that happened. I wouldn't go over every name, only those that stood out somehow. For example, I would see a publisher card of a brother age 21 who was putting in 30 hours a month and have a lot of placements and a Bible study. I would ask about him. Why wasn't he being recommended as a servant? Sometimes he was recently reproved or he had problems with his attitude or perhaps pornography or drinking or a worldly girlfriend or he misses a ton of meetings or he was in college. Yep, college was a valid reason not to recommend.

Or another card would show someone whose hours had gone way down. Why? They were sick or had been offended or they were reproved or they seemed to be hiding something, they had suddenly started missing meetings. I would try to find out and schedule a visit with them. I would try to get a sense of the personality of the congregation and I learned early on to try to solve the problems early in the week. I tried to limit that initial Tuesday meeting to one hour.

Did you feel you could really "know" individuals, say ones who were recommended, just by their hours or what other elders thought of them. Did you ever question the reasons given?

I always looked for what I considered "humble" brothers. Those who followed "theocratic direction." In hindsight they were the ones who would not rock the boat and would be somewhat scared to "sin" so as not to lose their privileges. But at the time it seemed like the "humble"' ones who were "reaching out" would be the most likely to be recommended. Yes, they recommended brothers for crazy reasons. They had this thing that engaged brothers couldn't be Ministerial Servants because they would probably sin with their fiancée. Which was true that usually happened. I tried to point out that being engaged didn't disqualify them from appointment but the elders knew from experience that appointing engaged brothers was not usually a good idea.

So, no, I never really knew the brothers I recommended even though I tried to work with them in service and the like.

If an ex Bethelite had been inactive for about 10 years, what's the likelihood this comes up to the C.O.? Not DFd. No discipline. Just straight up faded.

It depends on the following:

Does this ex-Bethelite have regular contact with member of the congregation somehow, such as through his work?

Does this ex-Bethelite live in the territory and is known by the friends when they preach in that area?

Does this ex-Bethelite make comments or posts or do something that could get him noticed by the CO?

Does this ex-Bethelite have family members in that congregation that could talk to the CO so he could "help" him?

When I was a new CO, I really went all out to find inactive ones. After a couple of years, I noticed that I hardly ever reactivated anyone. Seems they had their reasons to be inactive. Usually it seemed they were offended by something or someone and none of my scriptures about returning to Jehovah worked. So I didn't really try that hard after that to track them down. I might ask about someone if he was known and then became inactive but if he didn't have a lot of association with the friends and didn't identify himself as a Witness then I didn't bother. Now if he was openly living in sin in the territory and everyone knew about it then I would ask the elders if this person was "known" as a witness. If he was, then I would encourage them to form a judicial committee even if the guy wouldn't attend it. I wanted to "keep the organization clean" of those thought to be Witnesses in the community who were living in sin.

Skipping ahead to that last Tuesday, approximately, what did you notice that tipped you off as this organization being rotten?
Also, did you have any dealings with the HLC, or any anti-transfusion seminars, big wigs, etc?

What really bothered me was the idea that "Holy Spirit" was appointing men. At first when I started in the circuit work I believed it. But so many elders and ministerial servants would be appointed and then deleted within a year or two. It always seemed like every adult male in the congregation had been appointed and deleted and appointed again, at least in the country I served in. We averaged two elders and three servants in each congregation and the number would always fluctuate. That bothered me. Plus it seemed that some of the good guys never got appointed unless they sucked up to the elders. That bothered me as well but didn't make me leave until I as an elder I was on the hot seat years later for bogus reasons. Sadly, for years before that I played the game thinking that even though we were "imperfect", God was using us.

Yes I dealt with the HLC occasionally. They were appointed directly by the Branch in the country I served and were usually rich and influential. The Branch wanted brothers who could make an impression on doctors and so local elders who owned business and were prominent were usually chosen. They sometimes appeared on local television acting knowledgeable about blood. I went to those anti-transfusion seminars once or twice I didn't understand all the lingo. I accepted the idea that transfusions were dangerous and I ignored the hard questions.

hat tip: https://redd.it/6zkzvt

24

September 11, 2017 Re: Global Assistance Arrangement for the 2018 Service Year

by wifibandit in

september 11, 2017 to all congregations in the united states re: global assistance arrangement for the 2018 service year.

darkspilver

exjwlemming: Let's do a little math here.

notes

+ Ave publisher number used for the previous last available year (ie 2016 service year as in the 2017 yearbook for the 2018 figure)
+ GAA for 2016: https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4867658067476480/_post/5188088850546688
+ GAA for 2017: https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5710501243781120/_post/5645923642245120

10

RC 2018

by darkspilver in

following on from last year's threadhttps://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5695993188188160/rc-2017here we go with the 2018 regional conventions!.....

darkspilver

WT letters and application forms regarding 2018 Special Conventions:

September 7, 2017 TO ALL CONGREGATIONS Re: 2018 Special Conventions
September 9, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS Re: 2018 Special Conventions—Instructions for Congregation Secretaries
2018 Special Convention Application
2018 Special Convention Applicant Instructions

hat tip to wifibandit: https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5760262344802304/_post/5711738743816192

64

Free to sin but still cannot bring myself to do it

by sinboi in

have da'd myself nearly 3 months ago.

now i am part of this world but i feel myself the odd one out.

something inside me is still blocking me to do the things i have been longing to do while i was still a jw, such as attending birthday parties, sex, etc.... just last nite, i was on the way to attend a birthday party.

darkspilver

sinboi: Will I be able to get myself involve in bayonet fighting?
redvip2000: Not to go on a tangent, but if the military in your country still engages in bayonet fighting, you might consider emigrating altogether.

Oh...

The British Army: Combat Infantryman's Course - PARA

Weeks 9 to 11: Bayonet fighting
http://www.army.mod.uk/training_education/24683.aspx

The British Army: Combat Infantryman's Course - Foot Guards

Weeks 21 and 22: Bayonet fighting
http://www.army.mod.uk/training_education/24677.aspx

22

The Children Act: The Movie - By Ian McEwan and directed by Richard Eyre

by darkspilver in

richard eyre's film adaptation of ian mcewan's book the childen act has it's world premiere at the toronto international film festival in september 2017. the children act.

emma thompson and stanley tucci star in this adaptation of the novel by ian mcewan, about a high-court judge who finds personal and professional crises colliding when she is asked to rule in the case of a brilliant 18-year-old boy who is refusing the blood transfusion that would save his life.. adapted by booker prize–winning author ian mcewan from his own novel, this riveting drama stars two-time academy award winner emma thompson as a british high court judge tasked with making a decision that will speak to our most fraught questions regarding religious tolerance — and could mean life or death for an innocent young man.. judge fiona maye (emma thompson) is married to her work, which has become a problem for her husband, jack (stanley tucci), who announces that he wants to have an affair.

treating the matter more as an annoyance than a life-altering crisis, fiona kicks jack out and focuses on her current case.

darkspilver

Looks like a very positive review in the Portuguese newspaper Diário de Notícias - major article with picture that appeared on page 29 in today's (September 11, 2017) version of the PRINT newspaper.

Also it seems that the film has a distribution deal for Portugal.

FWIW the title of the film (and the book) is a reference to the 1989 UK Act of Parliament of the same name. I understand that in non-English territories it is being renamed. Thus in Portuguese it is: A Balada de Adam Henry / The Ballad of Adam Henry.

Ian McEwan well served by Emma Thompson

Diário de Notícias, Monday, September 11, 2017 (via Google Translate)
An instant triumph. The Children Act is further evidence that Ian McEwan's prose generally provides good cinema. The film is leveraged by a sober and powerful interpretation of Emma Thompson, a judge facing a moral dilemma when she has to decide on a case where a family of Jehovah's Witnesses refuses to have their child treated by blood transfusion.
READ FULL REVIEW: http://www.dn.pt/artes/interior/ian-mcewan-bem-servido-por-emma-thompson-8760491.html