Posts by Strangelove

106

If you thought Tony Moris the Third was extreme, wait till you hear this other GB member!

by Island Man in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqzc2m8_mba&list=uus0vqkpnsxult0gsz6ahpta.

Strangelove

Unbelieveable.

Very shocking, but of course, not surprising. I have little to offer or say on this matter. Only that the treatment of women in this organization was one of the core and primary reasosn I began to doubt, and inevitably leave.

6

What are the phases on a cult exit journey?

by Fernando in

jw
friends

for reasons i am still trying to fully understand and explain i was not able to properly pinpoint, identify and name the phases of my cult exit journey as i was going through them.

now i feel the need to even more.. some phases that came to mind this morning for me:.

identity crisis (who am i, what do i believe).

Strangelove

It seems different to everyone. Not trying to defer your thought, it's a good point.

Let's see, mine are a bit vague.

Doubts that creep around for years seem to be common. At least from my stand point as a born in. They evolve to, as you said, the questions of who you are, and what you believe. For me, it was asking the age ole "What if I am wrong?" That scared me so much, and I was so concerned with how others viewed me, I did deep research to appear spiritual in others eyes.

But after a few years, it doesn't seem to matter. There is always this lingering feeling you're doing something wrong without realizing it. You don't want to see your 'worldly' associates die on judgement day. Constant barrages of just how silly Intelligent Design is. (Thank God for forums) Being so conditioned to think about what some deity thinks of you is so self condeming. And you start to think that even being happy might be sinful. I know I did. And I'm still recovering from that line of thought.

Not to sound Pessimistic, but rather realistic, I am not sure Born Ins will ever be completely normal. I mean, considering how much are past can influence are future. Think of how important a Childhood is. So that if and when they learn TTATT, said person will try to live as rebelious as possible to make up for their losses, or linger in sorrow about what they didn't have. I like to think I can move on past all of this. And to an extent, yes, you can. But my memories will always have stains attacted to them. That sucks. Even the good memories have traces of JW all over them. It's why I personally try to make new memories with people who not only care about me, but I for them. Something that has nothing to originate with this sect. I know, I know. No regrets. Everything is a learning experience. I've heard that one before. No sense in feeling sorry for myself for somehing I had no control over. And when the time came, I made the best decision I could by leaving.

I think after some doubts, I know it sounds corny, but Love is a big impacter. For me, it came before the massive research phase. I am not even sure when it happened, but after years of researching feminism, and disagreeing with certain teachings. I met someone who would be considered 'Worldly' in the eys of WT land. And while it had come up before, I confronted it now with full force. The term worldly was a very negative label given to people who in their own right were capable of good and bad. And in this case, I had met someone who was good. And the thoughts that came with others reffering to this person as worldly, or saying that Satan works in mysterious ways, sickened me so much, I for once in my 19 years of going, considered the possibility again, a possibility I hadn't thought in 2 years, What if I am in the wrong religon? Who has the right to say any other religon is incorrect?

I usually refer to it as, Loving someone more than god. Being opened minded. I tried to be as open as I could given the circumstances. I was always very tolerant, despite others concerns. This site was like opening a world I never knew. I ate up all the topics young and old like I'd been starving. I spent hours relearning everything. Ploting an escape, trying to cope with knowing how ill prepared I was for anything outside the organization. Resenting the Governing Body. Which, that's the turning point for me. When I finnally admitted I didn't think the men in charge were God's direct channel. That I had to beleive first and foremost that their interpretation of the bible was correct, and I didn't. Revelation was just too far fetched.

Yeah, joining of the dots, 1914 being too insane to work, with my thoughts of how women were treated like second class citizens. It becomes a lot more clear. I remember the hardest part was coming to grips with my mortality. I'm fine now, but at the time, it was a scary thing to die.

Then it became death wasn't scary at all. But after that, I felt Death could only be scary if I had something to live for. I know that's really weird to get across. But for a time I contemplated Suicide after being rejected by my family, and just the scary concept of being co-dependent to an Org that didn't care about me. Yeah, Death seemed kind of nice at the time.

But I got a reason to live now, everyone's different, mines private. It's a healthy fear of death I think. To not actually be scared of a lack thereof of conscience, but that you would be leaving the people you love behind. It's made my existance more whole, and made me contemplate purpose closer, and feel a little more optimistic.

So yeah, all I do now, is work day to day, reading all the info I can and keep myself educated on matters. Associate more with real friends. Help them, learn from them, be there for them, and they for you. Not in a overwhelming way either, I do not wish to be uber rebelious. But yes, my current thinking conflicts with the WT. And that makes me very happy. Because I don't have to hide who I am anymore.

Exampe; I can be a somewhat sad person. In the org, I felt guilt for this because we couldn't bring reproach on God's name or people. Had to be a happy people. So I constructed a facade. Had to be happy all the time. Now that I am out, I felt free to be as sad as I wanted to. And only after that liberation am I starting to feel, a hell of a lot better about everything.

See, I have always been guilted that selfish thinking is wrong. I love Movies, Games, Literature, and more specifically, Storytelling. To pursue such might have been seen as an independent attitude. I felt bad about that. Now though, I can pursue it all without reproach. That feels amazing and relieving.

I'm trying to end this thing gracefully, but everytime I try to wrap it up with "Just get some friends. The Real ones." I think of a new experience to share. Just knowing how much better it is for you than being a JDub. Yeah it sometimes feels like they get more perks with their Christian duty to help others, but knowing how artificial it is, helps in confronting reality's.

Life's not easy, or even fair. But we can take advantage of our existance, leave are mark, help other people (That brings me such satisfaction) Learn, Love, Enjoy.

I refuse to live an ignorant life inside a bubble believing the world is out to get me. In theory it seems like it wouldn't help me sleep. But beleive me, I haven't slept this good in years. Holidays, Blood, Religon, Sex, Life, People, Fear, Hope, all have been turned upside down in my life. And I'll be spending the next few years re-evaluating just what kind of person I am. Because after all these years of conforming, I don't really know who I am. So with all this knowledge presented before me, I aim to be the best damn human being I can be.

Einstein said Morality doesn't need to be consistant or even related to Religon. Sympathy, Education, Social Ties. That's all you need. I've been well off from that alone. And think being open minded and kind have served me well. I'm listening a lot more to outside ideas. Practicing Yoga, searching for Truth and expressing joy. Not the fake Joy either. The real kind.

TL;DR: Cult Sucks. Live and Learn. Spend Life moving on. Love Yourself and others. Maybe leave a mark. The End. (And maybe it won't be the end. Guess we'll find out together)

39

I do not miss anything about the conventions

by Darth Fader The Sequel in

this weekend nearly everyone i have ever known or that i am related to is sitting in a convention.

i miss none of it!!!!.

i do not miss:.

Strangelove

You know what, there are some things that I kind of miss. That of the ending. This can be in line with general meetings, service and of course, are topic of choice, the Conventions and Assemblies.

See, at the very end, that feeling of anticipation to briskly walk out the doors into the summer wind, or in some cases, butt cold temperatures was almost overwhelming. JDubs feel it too, only they call it something else. Holy Spirit.

I remember on our "Night" meetings, I would be half asleep near the end, had school or work in the morning, and when I got out, I felt this energy within me. I confused this and said I had been spiritually fed. (Bleh!) My excitment was really just escaping a boring and stuffy program I was forced to be in for, a really damn long time. The night before the convention, I never wanted to go to bed. Like a romantic night, you never want it to end, but my reasoning was just as every one elses. "I do not want to get up at 6 in the morning on my weekend off to sit for hours in a crowded enviorment. And then, to do it all over again for 3 to possibly 5 more days depending on your decade in."

I mean, I thought it was boring as hell when I was a child. But I really tried as hard as I could to get anything out of the conventions I attended as an adult. And nada. It was actually paying attention that got me to be more critical in thinking. It's why I honestly think more apostates are formed from actually looking deep into the doctrine and paying close attention. Given time, they will leave.

Ugh, and who can forget when the AC went out. I think we've all been there. Seeing everyone and their mother next to you fanning themselves with WT Literature. An image I probably won't forget. As I did the same, cause mom and dad did it. How times can change a person.

The OP. One I took from in particular was the ass numbingly long opening and closing prayer. Good Greif those were brutal. I mean it too, absolutely painful to endure. Gah!

I think something that got me thinking while attending one of these, was, their advice. And realizing how much I rejected it. I tried to accept it, so as to not have a man in the sky read my thoughts to find imperfection. That of when we are in trouble, the Brother speaking said, "Pray, and if that don't work..." I swear this is what he said next, "Pray again."

I don't think I've ever heard advice quite as bad as that. And I knew it as I did the day I heard it sitting amoung the drones I called my family.

16

Hello fellow Las Vegans

by freeflyingfaerie in

jw
friends

hello to you .

i'm back 'home' in las vegas and wanted to have a meet up again if anyone is interested~.

peace.

Strangelove

Aww, I was mildly mislead. :P

I thought you meant Vegans. As in the diet and life style. (Something I follow considerably)

Las Vegas is cool too.

35

If you don't like being a Jehovah's Witness then leave....

by Quirky1 in

jw
friends

if you don't like being a jehovah's witness or going to the kingdom hall or the society then leave.... it's as simple as that... .

i left several years ago and have not been hounded, bothered or sought out by anyone.

i still see them from time to time, and yes, they do pour out the love bomb when you run into them, but eh, you know what?

Strangelove

I like your point that life is short, and the more one ponders on such, it can really help others push themselves into extraordanary situations that better them. Its what helped me leave as fast as I did. Regardless of consequence.

Howevor, It is not that easy. Not for everyone. Scenarios, experiences and the like are constantly different. We may all be in the same boat to a degree, we are still different. Example, can a child fully aware of the cult mentality just walk away? Well, yes, at the cost of running away from his or her family and sacrificing his/her shelter, source of food and a bed to sleep on. It just isn't realistic. I'd like to support this idea with full certainty he or her managed to suceed and escape from the Borg. But there is a level of uncertainty to this. Just because I would rather die that return, doesn't mean everyone else has to feel the same. Be like Andy Dufrane from The Shawshank Redemption. Be patient, and plan an escape. Patience is a virtue. Delayed Gratification. The harder the conquest, the greater the reward. And always recognize not everyone's circumstances are comparable to your own. As much as we'd like for that to be, some advice is futil to others. No matter what.

Still I applaud your encouraging post. :)

12

Watchtowers God cannot see very far into the future.

by Jeannette in

he wanted all his people to be window washers, toilet bowl cleaners, floor moppers, minimum wage workers, not get an education to get higher paying jobs and have some security, and now this country is being flooded by plenty of workers that will do minimum wage jobs.

kind of leaves us begging.

why didn't he see this coming and encourage us to get educated while we had the chance.

Strangelove

Ugh... I admit I do not care for the inscessent reminders of how poor the quality of my life may turn out because of this. Being conditioned since five years old that Higher Education was wrong, satanic, free spirited and represented an independent attitude. Being told any of those things are wrong in the first place has damaged me and countless others. I was never mentally prepared for any of this... And only now do I dare consider College, and am terrified. That's even if I was accepted. I have no money for it, not with my job. Family obviously never considered saving for it for obvious reasoning.

I don't like feeling sorry for myself, but I am constantly reminded every day just how bad this Orginization screwed me over. Trying to surpress my ambition. Again, not to mention over and over the many others in the same boat. Movies force feed you that 'Dreams' are important. The Borg has a different view on dreams. So growing up, there was constant mixed messages. I truly feel bad for any who stayed in 60+ Years. They really had their hopes and aspirations crushed and taken away before their eyes by an Org that has shown on a consistant basis, it has no love or care for them. Hmf. What a fucking mess it truly is.

@Focus: I would laugh at your chart, but the reality of how brutally honest it is, prevents me from doing so.

13

Intelligent design vs evolution.

by moley in

jw
friends

i was out walking my dog and thought, there is no way an intelligent being would create this animal :-).

Strangelove

While I do think the universe has a purpose, I do not know what that purpose is. Thankfully we are all in the same exact boat. Just a big guessing game.

Some things though, cannot be guessed at. Evidence suggests the diverse amount of life on this planet was through Darwinian Evolution and Natural Selection. The theory may have holes, but that doesn't make it not true. Having Intelligent Design shoved down my throat through the Watchtower has not helped either. ID is more of a sciency way of saying Creationism. Just without the 7 earth days thing. In reality, Intelligent Design is the theory. And not a scientific theory either. (I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and say I've heard worse. I mean, I read "Darwin's Black Box for Christ's sake! I gave ID more than just a chance. I had to believe it to be a JDUB)

I'd ask other Jehovah's Wittnesses my doubts concearning ID. Usually in line with, "Why do we have this many fingers and not more? Why get rid of the Dinosaurs, what was there purpose to begin with? etc." There answers usually came into line with "Because God(Jehovah) Made it that way."

That's the best answer I got. Even if it was, to me a copout answer. It's another reason why I am not of this bankrupted faith. There responses were not satisfactory.

I do not claim to know much about Evolution because of my having to deny it so much when I was in. It was through Forums that helped me come to a better knowledge. Evolution is just the process of Change. Understanding that helped open my mind, and I use it to open other peoples minds too.

This used to be a topic I followed with great interest. But it's a debate I now see as vanity. Everyone is just so stubborn and unwilling to see other perspectives. (It can get heated) Still, never hurts to raise awarness to JDubs how they are in the minoroity for a reason.

17

STOP calling JW's a CULT--unless . . . they fit the checklist!

by Terry in

it is unkind, premature and even irresponsible to label people with whom we disagree using pejorative names.. for example, labeling a movement as a cult.. consider this example:.

sociologists d. bromley and a. shupe once described what they called the tnevnoc cult.

membership was open only to women, who were required to shave their heads, change their names, and wear specific clothing once they had entered the group.

Strangelove

I'm guilty of labeling them as a cult. And occasionally will say I am a cult victim or survivor considering how early I was conditioned. I sometimes consider it to be rude, yes. To call them a cult.

But then I remember, they absolutely are a cult. I point to the concept of disfellowshipping as my primary reason. That kind of exclusive and/or inclusive mentality is hard not to associate with a cult.

I know when I was in I fought against that notion, but someone once asked me, "When has any religon accused of being a cult admitted to actually being a cult?" I thought about it, and yeah, even infamous cults never admitted to that definition.

I sometimes avoid using the term with actual JDubs though. See, I want them to see that the other side is just as kind. By screaming cult at them, then it falls in line with what they're taught that the world is out to get them. So I try to be as welcoming as possible and avoid the use of said word.

Admitably though, it slips on occasion. Can you really blame me though? (You could..)

39

why dont more elders leave?

by Crazyguy in

you would think that what they are exposed to more would wake up and leave, why not?

thoughts..

Strangelove

That's a very good question. Unfortunetly, some of the best questions have no answers.

See, I can recall a select few Jdubs who were really smart. No, like really smart. It taught me that it matters not how intelligent a person is, they are still suceptible to their emotions. And their emotions can be manipulated by Cults. I often forget the mentallity I once had. I was almost stubborn with my beliefs.

Elders are exposed to a bit more than your average memeber. But what I'd like to know is how The Governing Body and Bethelites sleep with themselves. Being a born in, having the Governing Body be this almost heavenly presense. That's what I was taught. It's sometimes hard to believe how evil they really are though. When Anthony Morris gave that rant about a Metro Sexual look. I was so appauled, and my heart betrayed. It's like a Cat-Lick learning the Pope is just some guy. Except in our case, these popes are much more decietful. They know all and yet keep there stance. I want to believe they are naive enough to still think they have the Truth. But after awhile, you realize all the hypocrisy is for them to see, and they do nothing to change or realize it's completely false. It was once hard to accept they were in it for the money, but it becomes more and more clear why they make the changes they do. It is always some spin to create more profit.

With a totem pole like that, I don't think it's far fetched at all to suggest Elders are only in it for the image. No matter how much they may say otherwise. Like mine did.

21

I was 36 when I started posting here. This weekend I celebrated my 50th birthday!

by nicolaou in

and i mean celebrated!

it was a cracking barbecue party for around 40 good friends and neighbours as well as my 'never jw' cousins and one of my brothers and his family.. .

drank a bit too much, embarrassed my kids with some 'dad dancing' and laughed until 2 in the morning.

Strangelove

I still have only left for a month or so. And while I still am trying to conjure up a reason to celebrate my own birthday, nothing has stopped me from celebrating others.

Our secretary recently had a birthday, So I crochet-ed a scarf for her. It's still strange saying Happy Birthday. But I feel it will help me de-condition and transition to a better quality of life.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY

NICOLAOU!