Paris - while I've not dealt with it before, I've read enough first and second hand accounts here of the pain caused by shunning, and the guilt and fear of Armageddon that can accompany it. None of that is deserved, and I want to make sure he doesn't have to cope alone, if at all.
OneEyedJoe
JoinedPosts by OneEyedJoe
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22
Help me help my DF'd friend
by OneEyedJoe inso i got a text from a friend of mine today telling me that he'd been df'd.
since i'm still nominally a witness, this puts me in a tricky spot.
i intend to tell him in no uncertain terms that i will not shun him, but i'm not sure where to go beyond that.
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Help me help my DF'd friend
by OneEyedJoe inso i got a text from a friend of mine today telling me that he'd been df'd.
since i'm still nominally a witness, this puts me in a tricky spot.
i intend to tell him in no uncertain terms that i will not shun him, but i'm not sure where to go beyond that.
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OneEyedJoe
As I said in the OP, he's married and has a 1yr old. I don't think there's any risk of him running off the rails...he's in his 30s and quite stable. Though I guess part of being a JW is appearing stable even of you're not.
I just told him I won't shun him, and I'm here of he needs to talk or just wants to get a beer. I guess I'll ask why he got the boot...I was hesitant to ask since I'm not usually one to pry, but I guess its the only way to feel things out.
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Help me help my DF'd friend
by OneEyedJoe inso i got a text from a friend of mine today telling me that he'd been df'd.
since i'm still nominally a witness, this puts me in a tricky spot.
i intend to tell him in no uncertain terms that i will not shun him, but i'm not sure where to go beyond that.
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OneEyedJoe
So I guess to clarify a bit, I want to help him, but I've read many here who recommended caution when trying to share TTATT with JWs if you don't want to get yourself DF'd. My relationship with my wife is only relevant in that it explains why I'd like to avoid being DF'd for apostasy.
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Help me help my DF'd friend
by OneEyedJoe inso i got a text from a friend of mine today telling me that he'd been df'd.
since i'm still nominally a witness, this puts me in a tricky spot.
i intend to tell him in no uncertain terms that i will not shun him, but i'm not sure where to go beyond that.
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OneEyedJoe
He lives nearish. I'm not sure if he reached out to me specifically, the text had the feel of a generic notification that he might've mass texted to all his friends.
As for my wife, she's not super zealous, but most criticism of the WTS is met with resistance. I suspect she has some small doubts, bit I don't know what they are yet. I'm still feeling her out. As for what we talk about, we're basically a normal couple, there's just this huge waste of time in our life. I don't know if she'd turn me in, but she probably wouldn't like it if she knew I wasn't shunning him, but I can deal with that.
Yes, I'm more or less in good standing
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Help me help my DF'd friend
by OneEyedJoe inso i got a text from a friend of mine today telling me that he'd been df'd.
since i'm still nominally a witness, this puts me in a tricky spot.
i intend to tell him in no uncertain terms that i will not shun him, but i'm not sure where to go beyond that.
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OneEyedJoe
First post fixed bump.
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22
Help me help my DF'd friend
by OneEyedJoe inso i got a text from a friend of mine today telling me that he'd been df'd.
since i'm still nominally a witness, this puts me in a tricky spot.
i intend to tell him in no uncertain terms that i will not shun him, but i'm not sure where to go beyond that.
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OneEyedJoe
So I got a text from a friend of mine today telling me that he'd been DF'd. Since I'm still nominally a witness, this puts me in a tricky spot. I intend to tell him in no uncertain terms that I will not shun him, but I'm not sure where to go beyond that.
I've known him for about 12 years but we've only had spotty contact for the las 6-7, but I still consider him one of my best friends....life just keeps us busy. He's married with a 1 yr old, and I can't imagine he cheated or anything like that, so I'm wondering if he might be awake, or waking up. I do know that he did get caught up in some BS with a past employer that nearly got him DF'd inspite of his complete innocence, and that's the type of situation that seems like it could eventually lead to an awakening, hopefully that's the case.
That said, I've not really even managed to begin a fade, and my wife is still very much in, so if he were to report me to his elder father, the wheels of "justice" would no doubt begin turning really quickly. Us awake JWs really need a secret passphrase or something.
I'm thinking of just telling him that I won't shun him, and that I'm always around to lend an ear if he needs to talk. And that anything he says will be kept confidential, and nothing he can say will make me drop him. I know just that is probably enough to get me DF'd, but I can handle getting the boot for simply supporting a friend. appostacy, on the other hand would imperil my footing with the wife. Is there anything else I can say that might comfort him and help absolve him of any guilt he might have? Id also appreciate help in the phrasing, as I'm no poet. I'm sure those of you who've gone through this before (on either side) will be able to help immensely.
Thanks in advance, everyone.
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Give me a reason not to go back
by chukky 594 inbeen out now for 10 yrs but life is a mess.
starting to think its because i have no spiritual compass.
why shouldn't i consider going back?.
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OneEyedJoe
I reccommend you get professional counseling from a therapist that's familiar with cults. On Steve Hassan's website (www.freedomofmind.com) there are resources for you to find help.
You're in a difficult situation, but there are better ways to handle it than by returning to a dangerous mind control cult.
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WT makes comic books now!
by wifibandit infull set http://imgur.com/a/jvcla .
i put that album together so you don't have to give www.jw.borg any more traffic .
sample:.
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OneEyedJoe
Is this real life?
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Is The Governing Body Afraid To Slam Muslims???
by minimus inthey boldly spoke against the catholics.
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i'd love to see them rail against the muslims..
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OneEyedJoe
What would they possibly gain from criticizing muslims? The whole point of their emphasis on the evils of christendom is to prevent JWs from having an answer to the question "[Where] else would we go away to?" It's conceivable that a JW might leave to go to a different christian church (and based on what I've read here, that doesn't seem too uncommon) but I can't imagine that a JW, fed up with the WTS, would suddenly decide to convert to Islam.
They do have something to lose. If they encourage people to look at other non-christian religions they could find that they're really just looking at a mirror of christianity, which then leads to the realization that it's all BS. When comparing christian denominations, the similarities are easily excusable, since they're all using the same source material. However, finding certain similarities in a non-christian religion could lead someone to the realization that indeed all religion is from the same source (the human mind).
Obviously, potential retribution is another big down-side. While they'd love to play the persecution card, the WT theology has pretty much exclusively predicted persecution at the hands of governments (who may or may not be in bed with religions) but not at the hands of individual folks from another religious background.
Once you think of it as an american cult that's aimed more at retention and monitization than conversion, it makes total sense that they never give a second thought to Islam, Buddism, Hinduism, Shintoism, etc except to list some vauge criticism that (if examined further) doesn't actually invalidate the religion in any way: 'Did you know that Hindus believe in over a hundred thousand gods? How could you possibly keep all that straight!'
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Was droping bomb on Hiroshima in 1945 evil?
by new hope and happiness insorry for such a depressing question, but i was moved by a picture i saw of the consequences.
( a woman carrying her child) and i realised:-.
a) it was a civillian population.. b) i don't see how a nuclear holocaust can ever be right.. c) they could have bombed tokyo where all the generals lived but chose hiroshima.. d) the irony after the bombing america conceeded to many of japans terms.. your opinion would be valued..
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OneEyedJoe
Addressing the points maid in the OP:
A) It was a civillian population.
B) I don't see how a nuclear holocaust can ever be right.
C) They could have bombed Tokyo where all the generals lived but chose Hiroshima.
D) The Irony after the bombing America conceeded to many of Japans terms.
A - As others have mentioned, the firebombing of other cities also largely affected civilian populations
B - Seldom is anything done in war 'right'
C - Since Tokyo had already been heavily bombed (it's an obvious target for the reasons you gave, and for the mere fact that it's the capital) so it was never a target for a nuke. The americans purposely kept 4 japanese cities as virgin targets for a nuke, because they wanted to truely demonstrate the power of the bomb. If they'd bombed a city that was already nearly destroyed, it wouldn't have had the same effect. I agree with others here who've said that the nukes on japan where probably about 50/50 motivated by wanting japan to surrender and displaying our supremecy to the rest of the world.
D - For those that don't know the full story, the irony goes deeper than you let on. The reason for the americans making concessions to the japanese after hiroshima was because they couldn't stomach the devestation of the nuclear bombing. They wanted to make it as easy as they could for the japanese to surrender, so they tried to allow them to keep some of their pride. The irony is that the Japanese likely would've surrendered had they not tried to let them off a little bit. The Japanese saw their concessions as weakness, and therefore refused to surrender. After Nagasaki was bombed, no such concessions where made and they did indeed surrender.
I'm not sure if I'm really for or against the bombing. It's difficult to know how history would've gone without it. Maybe russia would've eventually nuked us had we not displayed our might. Maybe the japanese would've surrendered soon anyway, since the war was all but lost for them already. Maybe there would've been less loss of life without the bomb, maybe more. I don't think there's much point in speculating on all that, and am comfortable just leaving it as this - violence is to be avoided, but things aren't always black and white. All we can do is use the war as one data point, and hopefully mankind will use it to create more desirable outcomes in the future.