Posts by OneEyedJoe

43

Do the Governing Body believe their own teachings or know it's a lie? Are they atheists?

by BucketShopBill in

the new young blood gb member, you think he really thinks this is the truth or is he protecting his financial interest like all the older gb members who enjoy basking in glory of men?

do you think they believe in the "over-lapping generation" or was that a mistake done by barr?.

how much of the watchtower and the bible do the governing body know, ray franz jr. said he was not impressed with their bible knowledge and their lack of knowledge of the watchtower cannon.

OneEyedJoe

Apognophos - I think you are largely right on the money. I think another element to it is in how much you have invested in the organization when you learn particular bits of TTATT. If you're extremely reliant or invested in the org then you're more likely to try to rationalize away anything you learn. That's one reason why the org wants everyone to pioneer or go to bethel or be an elder. The more time you invest into the org, the more traumatic it would be if you learned it was all a sham, so you're more likely to rationalize away anything you do learn.

That's also why they have secret elder's books, and secret elder's training and they keep the goings-on at bethel secret. By the time you get to the level where you are allowed to know the secrets, you've already invested so much in the org that you'll find a way to rationalize it. If someone is studying and was handed a fully annotated elder's manual to read, they'd almost certainly leave the organization, but if you take that same study, wait a few years, get them to pioneer for a while, then hand them the elder's manual and have them annotate it themselves, they're almost sure to stay on board.

71

BORG running low on $$$??

by fader77 in

dear brothers:.

re: personal literature supply.

reducing existing stock at the branch office before the revisions are released.

OneEyedJoe

So, should present copies be marked: What DID the Bible Really Teach?

Yesterday I was hanging out with a couple of JW friends when one of them brought up this announcement. At one point I threw berrygerry's joke out there, and let's just say it wasn't well recieved

It's kinda hillarious (in a really depressing way) to watch a JW friend's reaction when you poke fun (especially if it raises a legitimate point) at the JW leadership. They seemed kinda shocked and one of them had a split second change in their demeaner and said "No! and you'd better not go writing that on there!"

46

Fudging the Numbers: Is the WTBTS in decline?

by Coded Logic in

it's no secret that the wtbts has a cash flow problem.

over the past three years they have closed 20 of their 116 branches.

they have sold off most of their properties in and around ny (including some kingdom halls), drastically reduced the # of printed pages for the watchtower and awake magazines, reduced the printing of books and other materials, increased the number of single page tract campagnes, installed cc machines at their assembly halls, and are now seizing of controll of property assets from local kingdom halls using renovation projects.

OneEyedJoe

So I was playing around with google.com/trends with some JW related search terms. I found the results a bit surprising, and certainly interesting, so I figured I'd share.

First off, the link to what I tried: https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%2Fm%2F0dtdq%2C%20jw.org&cmpt=q

One of the most surprising things that stood out was the regional interest. The top 3 countries for both "jw.org" and "Jehovah's witnesses" searches are Angola, Zambia and Congo, and the entire top 10 of both lists is dominated entirely by the 3rd world. Now, I think google scales these based on the total search volume from the regions in question, so it's perhaps a little less shocking, but it does show that the per capita interest in JWism is much higher in 3rd world countries than it is in the more educated/secular places. On a scale from 1 to 100 the US ranks a 6 for interest in JWs, and the UK comes in at 3. Pretty dismal, I'd say.

Another thing that I found interesting was the related searches section. The top 2 related searches for jw.org (once you skip the obvious "jw") are both clearly made by spanish speakers (and jw.org/es - the spanish site - also made the top 10). Also, several of the top 10 related searches for "Jehovah's Wittness" are clearly not english. It seems that the bulk of the interest in JWism is from latin america(since spain is significantly more secular than latin america, i think we can assume spaniards are contributing very little to the spanish JW related searches) or from immigrants originating in latin america. This supports what I've seen in the US, where it seems the only congregations that are growing are foreign language groups, and especially the spanish congregations (though they seem to be plateauing).

The JW.org campaign of august does seem to have had a little success with a peak in interest in august. However, I suspect the roughly 50% increase from July to August was less than what the typical R/F JW would expect. Where was that success, though? Not in the US or UK! If you filter by region, interest in JW.org peaked in January of 2013 in the US and October of 2013 (the app/bible release) in the UK.

I think by itself this is essentially irrefutable evidence that the JWs are experiencing decline in the US, UK and western europe.

80

" Do not ask permission, just play the video--" service meeting instructions.

by prologos in

jw
friends

this statement startled me out of the pleasant mental absence during this week's "service" meeting.. pushing the org.

explanation: "the listener has time to interrupt, if they want--" .

together with an incredible boring "study" of an hand held device, or it's stored content, i will be a totally new crop of orgies at the halls,.

OneEyedJoe

The return of the phonograph, but in a different form.

You must not have been paying attention at this year's convention! The GB turd on the tie in (the german guy) was extremely insistant that playing the video for people is NOT a return to the methods of the phonograph, merely updated with modern technology! Oddly enough, he provided no line of reasoning nor any evidence to back this assertion.

80

" Do not ask permission, just play the video--" service meeting instructions.

by prologos in

jw
friends

this statement startled me out of the pleasant mental absence during this week's "service" meeting.. pushing the org.

explanation: "the listener has time to interrupt, if they want--" .

together with an incredible boring "study" of an hand held device, or it's stored content, i will be a totally new crop of orgies at the halls,.

OneEyedJoe

Yeah, that's just the typical progression...they've essentially been doing the same thing for years with the frequent serve-us meeting parts on "conversation stoppers."

I always sat there thinking to myself that conversation stoppers are rather obviously designed to stop the conversation. Why don't we just take the hint and move on? The reality is that if JWs are politely rejected everywhere, they'd eventually get discouraged. If you train them to fight the conversation stoppers, the people will realize "these assholes aren't leaving till I take their pamphlet" and they'll take it, throw it away and not answer the door next time. This leaves the JWs encouraged and reinvigorated, even though the functional result is the same.

21

Reflections - Updating MD card - did you stop updating?

by berrygerry in

i finally removed my md card from my wallet yesterday.. although we were encouraged to create a new card annually, i had an internal hesitation, and a lack of enthusiam for it, as well as the meaningless cards for my kids.. the card that was pulled from my wallet was dated 1994. i obviously had some unconscious, if not conscious, problems with the borg, maybe with the 1995 generations bs.. did others stop updating their cards long before exiting?.

.

OneEyedJoe

It's kind of curious - the blood doctrine hardly gets a mention anymore. Once a year in the KM at most.

Not sure if it is significant, but "just don't say anything about it" for 2 or 3 years is the Watchtower MO when they decide to change a doctrine.

I think there's a mention in the 11/14 WT. There was a thread about that a while back.

80

Will JW.ORG actually harm the WT Society Long Term ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

my son and i were discussing this yesterday over coffee.

since the wt society in previous years virtually demonized going on the internet at all for jw's - now wt leaders are doing a complete turn around or about face probably so as to " compete " or keep up with all the anti-jw websites that are out there to give the wt society point of view.. however- it very well may backfire on them as once people start doing google searches looking for jw.org it will bring up all the other websites dealing with any jw issues and in the privacy of their own homes out of curiosity i'm sure lots of jw's are going to want to check out some of these sites to see what all the " apostate " hoopla is all about.

i wonder how many jw's will do this and will it have an effect in opening more minds to other views ?

OneEyedJoe

Thinking about this a little over the last couple days, I'm wondering if it might be worthwhile to start an appostate campaign of google searching for jw.org or jehovah's witnesses and then clicking an appostate site (I would suggest we all stick to either JWN or jwfacts.com) on a daily basis. This could push the appostate sites up in the google rankings so that they'd get more visibility by the r/f.

Another option would be to search for things like "jw.org cult" or "jw.org pedophile" etc. That would get those phrases to pop up in the search auto-complete when people type jw.org, and might plant doubts in the minds of those who would otherwise continue on blind.

31

Brave Ex Elder sues over defamation over fraud claims.

by Slidin Fast in

jw
friends

this looks interesting, this guy is bringing the right to family life into his case.

many have thought of doing this.

maybe a good test case.. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/jehovahs-witness-sues-for-150000-after-church-snubbed-him-over-fraud-claims-9750062.html.

OneEyedJoe

Considering the number of stories on this site about shady or lax JW business dealings, I wouldn't rush to this guy's defense without knowing the facts. I'm sure a lot of you know Witnesses you wish were disfellowshipped for their business practices.

From what I've read about people's experience on JCs, the fact that he was disfellowshiped is probably the best evidence of his innocence.

While I mean that mostly tounge-in-cheek, there may be something to it...if he was an elder and guilty, he probably would've played things strategically and managed to stay in. If he was innocent, he probably would've kept pushing back against the BOE, and the BOE would circle the wagons and boot him.

80

Will JW.ORG actually harm the WT Society Long Term ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

my son and i were discussing this yesterday over coffee.

since the wt society in previous years virtually demonized going on the internet at all for jw's - now wt leaders are doing a complete turn around or about face probably so as to " compete " or keep up with all the anti-jw websites that are out there to give the wt society point of view.. however- it very well may backfire on them as once people start doing google searches looking for jw.org it will bring up all the other websites dealing with any jw issues and in the privacy of their own homes out of curiosity i'm sure lots of jw's are going to want to check out some of these sites to see what all the " apostate " hoopla is all about.

i wonder how many jw's will do this and will it have an effect in opening more minds to other views ?

OneEyedJoe

Brother Stuck, by his own admission, routinely posts here on JWN during meetings while working the sound!

I've posted here a couple times while running microphones. Between getting to vent in real time about the stupid BS being spouted, and the adrenaline from having to seamlessly switch over to the WT when someone on my aisle gets called on, it makes the meetings slightly more tolerable.

As far as the JW.org frenzy, I'm not sure if it'll help or hurt long-term. I'm leaning towards it hurting the cult, though, simply because it is a tacit approval for JWs to go online. I think the main issue, though, is just the internet in general. If anyone is having doubts, they'll eventually build to the point that they have to express it to someone, somehow. Expressing doubts to elders is an unwritten no-no (even if it's officially encouraged so that you can recieve 'spiritual direction') because you know it'll turn into a whole ordeal. So where is one to go so that they can anonymously express/discuss their issue with the organization? I was in that situation, and that's exactly how I ended up here. I was completely mentally out within 3 days. I think this would play out with or without JW.org.

I will say, I'm a little bummed that they finally started releasing the KM on the site for everyone to get. Getting my KMs off of jwleaks was quite instrumental to my awakening. The unbiased nature of the site with it's "here's the documentation, you make your own assessment" style kept the "bitter appostate" alarm bells from ringing. Then little seeds like "why would someone bother to coin the acronym TTATT if there's nothing wrong with the org?" were planted, and it eventually led me here.

21

Reflections - Updating MD card - did you stop updating?

by berrygerry in

i finally removed my md card from my wallet yesterday.. although we were encouraged to create a new card annually, i had an internal hesitation, and a lack of enthusiam for it, as well as the meaningless cards for my kids.. the card that was pulled from my wallet was dated 1994. i obviously had some unconscious, if not conscious, problems with the borg, maybe with the 1995 generations bs.. did others stop updating their cards long before exiting?.

.

OneEyedJoe

The last card I filled out and signed was 2004. Actually, that's the only "blood card" I ever signed, as prior to that I only had the "Identity Card" for non-baptized people (which I still don't understand...why would they withhold the full protection of the blood card from unbaptized people if they want it?). I pulled it out and destroyed it about 2 days after my first post here.

After the changes to allow fractions, I could never wrap my head around the no blood thing. That, and I always instinctively push back when people try to get me to do something. So, I've never had a medical directive on file at the KH, I don't return the forms the secretary is always trying to get me to fill out with my address and phone numbers, etc. The blood thing was just another case of everyone saying it's important, but it didn't make sense to me so I refused to re-do it.