Fudging the Numbers: Is the WTBTS in decline?

by Coded Logic 46 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic

    It's no secret that the WTBTS has a cash flow problem. Over the past three years they have closed 20 of their 116 Branches. They have sold off most of their properties in and around NY (including some kingdom halls), drastically reduced the # of printed pages for the Watchtower and Awake magazines, reduced the printing of books and other materials, increased the number of single page tract campagnes, installed CC machines at their assembly halls, and are now seizing of controll of property assets from local kingdom halls using renovation projects.

    Its hard to believe that donations have gone down this much but the number of JWs is still increasing. Has the GB been fudging the # of active publishers? Is the WTBTS in decline?

  • alanv
    alanv

    I dont think they are fudging the numbers. Although they certainly put a spin on any bad figures they publish. The problem I think is that most of their increase these days come from the poorer areas of the world. That is the reason they want witnesses in the richer countries to pay a set amount forever each month if they are currently buying a kingdom hall. The extra money will help pay for halls in the poorer lands.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    We keep hoping to see signs of definite decline don't we ? But as numbers are deceiving if not used totally tranparently we can not be sure of the true position.

    It seems to me that you are dead right about the fall in donations, I think this happened after the crunch of 2008/9 and they have not recovered, hence the down-sizing and cost cutting.

    I just have a gut feeling that there is real overall increase worldwide, a lot of it from non-Internet 3rd World places, but that things are pretty stagnant in most of the West.

    For the rich part of the world to be slow growth is a problem for the JW.org "religion" because that is where the money comes from.

    I think there are a huge number within the JW's that are now disgruntled and beginning to wake up, the GB and their masters will need to do some pretty nifty changes if they are not to face a major decline in truly active, truly believing, JW's in the future.

    Those who are dis-enchanted and full of doubt do not donate much, if at all.

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    This topic has been analysed many times on this forum. My reading of the situatuon is that the WTS has gone through the same process most large corporates have done over the past 20-30 years as the use of technology has changed the landscape as far as doing business is concerned.

    At a corporate level they have downsized. Part of this is because technology allows them to do more with less. Part of it is numbers. There is growth but mainly from poorer parts of the world. There are strong indications that those in richer nations are giving less. It would also can be assumed that those donating as a percentage of the number in a location is reducing. The funds have further to go.

    The WTS has been able to realise funds from capital tied up in assets such as property. They are doing this in Brooklyn and around the world. This does give them a big injection of working capital but they can only do this once for a given asset. Of course, further investment is happening (e.g. Warwick) but they have to have operating bases and cannot forever buy, develop and sell on the scale they have at the moment.

    However, the change to how halls are funded is interesting as this allows them to once again grow an asset base. In countries like the UK where each congregation is a seperate charity there are some protential issues here. In another thread about a special local needs upcoming in the UK I thought it might signal some begging for the new branch build at Chelmsford however someone made this point about the rules around charities and property ownership. It could be that the WTS will change the structure of congregations in England and Wales to make this property grab more straightforward.

    The reductions they are making in literature production are part of the downsizing and cost savings. I am not convinced that all of this is being driven by cash flow projections - it could still be an element of the dog wagging the tail rather than the other way round - however the net result is the same: they need less money to operate and therefore can mitigate the effects of reducing income over a longer time.

    The other aspect to consider is the WTS is driven by numbers. They NEVER comment on negative figures, only ever promote positive numbers. They will do everything they can to spin the numbers to present decline as growth. Have you noticed the lack of emphasis on the amount being printed nowadays? All the hype at Twickenham was about the number of languages the web site is in, how many people attended in the UK, how many hours are being done (never contextualised of course) etc. The only mention of printed material was when one of the printing overseers was interviewed and they talked about brochures and that they had printed enough to make a stack X number of times the size of The Shard (the tallest building in Western Europe).

    For the moment the proselytising in poorer nations will keep the growth as a net gain for some time, perhaps decades. The publishers figures is fudged in the sense that it always presents a peak, not an average but is not the important one. It is still possible to extrapolate information by comparing figures to historical numbers and by slicing and dicing reports to take into account location for example. There are posters on here who have done sterling work.

    It is obvious from their efforts that the WTS is not really growing in a sustainable way. It does not really reflect an organisation being blessed by God. It is not preaching in a meaningful way to the vast majority of the world's population. My personal opinion however is that reports of the death of the WTS have been exagerated. It can go on for years, not just financially but also with the duping of millions of people. It will take something of huge magnitude to hasten any decline. I don't even think that a very public peodophile scandle would do it unless it could be proven there was a GB sanctioned cover up of epic proportions.

    1-2% growth in western nations has been the case for years. Even decline would not shake most people just so long as the overall numbers are growing.

    The biggest risk to the WTS is education and awareness. The hype of this summer and it's conventions will die down and people will be back to the same old same old. The changes going on do keep people on their toes but you cannot change everything or do things quickly without consquence. I live in hope that more and more people will wake up but the WTS have proved masters of managing congnative dissonance.

  • tunnistaja.ee
    tunnistaja.ee

    1) The members growth comes from the 3rd world - no donation numbers there.

    2) Though the decline of members is still slow in the developed world, the donations have long since ceased because a large % of the dubs don't buy into the crap fully any more. Fear, paranoia and the no-way-out policy keep members in, but doubting members do not donate money and do not make very many new followers.

    3) So, real-estate flip-flop is the new business. It would take years to earn net $100000 donations from a congregation of 100*, but if you make 100 ppl work on a building site for 2 weeks, you gain $100k by saving workforce costs in 14 days.

    ___

    * Besides, in averagely and below average developed regions like the Eastern Europe, for example, it's even not possible. The 100 members flush the toilets for more worth than they donate (again, mind you that most are not donating anything any more cause they have doubts).

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I don't know the details (someone here does) but they certainly have been fudging the United States numbers for a long time by eliminating separate "lands" like Alaska or certain islands and putting their numbers into the U.S. total. That, and taking peak numbers to include 15-minutes publishers and those that turn in multi-month time reports in one month.

    I doubt they can sustain growth in poor countries as they don't have any real charity compared to other religions.

  • Watchtower-Free
    Watchtower-Free

    Branch closings last 3 years

    1) Alaska
    2) Antigua
    3) Armenia
    4) Austria
    5 ) Bahamas
    6) Belize
    7) Belarus
    8) Czech Republic
    9) Cyprus
    10) Costa Rica
    11) Guadalupe
    12) Guinea , Africa
    13) French Guiana
    14) Guyana
    15) Hawaii
    16) Guatemala
    17) El Salvador
    18 ) Estonia
    19) Honduras
    20 ) Ireland
    21 ) Israel
    22) Iceland
    23 ) Latvia
    24 ) Lithuania
    25 ) Luxembourg
    26 ) Malaysia
    27 ) Malta
    28) Martinique
    29) Nepal
    30) Nicaragua
    31 ) Norway
    32) New Zealand
    33) Panama
    34 ) Puerto Rico
    35) Samoa
    36 ) Sudan
    37) Sweden
    38 ) Switzerland
    39 ) Togo
    40 ) Turkey
    41 ) Uruguay

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe

    Another factor at play is the age at which people are getting baptized. This year I saw, for my first time, a 6 yr old get baptized. I don't think there's anyone who's forgotten the stance on infant baptism (even though they haven't talked about it in a while) so they're running out of younger kids to get baptized in order to pump up the numbers. I predict a drop in baptisms in the next 5 years or so as they run out of younger and younger kids to baptize. The baptisms have already declined significanly, and it's only going to get worse. Of course the R/F won't notice, because if there's a decline they only print this year's numbers, and even 100k baptisms sounds good as long as you don't mention that it was 300k not too long ago.

    Another thing that's already been mentioned is consolidating branches. If the R/F compare numbers from a couple years ago for the US, to now it appears to be a huge increase. The problem is that a few years ago, the US was only the US (and I think excluded Alaska) but now its the "US Branch territory" which includes several new places. It seems like it might be difficult to keep up the consolidation of the numbers without people noticing, but there doesn't seem to be an end to what the R/F will swallow. Maybe in a few years Mexico and Canada will be in the "US Branch Territory."

    They definitely seem to have declining contributions. Also, because the "growth" in developed countries comes almost exclusively from born-ins coming of age, the best they can hope for is a lagging growth in contributions - that 6yr old that got baptized this year isn't going to be making any meaningful contributions for another 10 years. But as we know, fully 2/3rds of kids eventually leave, and that's probably without ever making any significant donations. So 2/3rds of the growth they're reporting is really just kids filling seats they're not paying for. Those seats indirectly cost money...without those kids taking up space, they'd likely be able to consolidate more congregations and sell off a few more KHs. Not to mention the money towards utilities to operate the extra KHs that means donations that aren't getting sent in to 'mother.'

    They're definitely not in a great place. That said, they can probably last a good while longer, so as much as I (and I'm sure many others here) would love to be able to just wait until they crumble around me so that I don't have to make an exit, that's probably not a viable option. I'm not waiting 20 (or even 5) years for them to implode.

  • kaik
    kaik

    All valid points. In the industrial world, JWs had reached saturation point and the demographics does not go well for their faith. People in Europe, Japan, and Northern America had aged and there is no easy for proselyte older population. 35 years ago, there was still a huge tail of postwar population boom in these countries who were 25-35 years old when they joined the cult. There is just not enough young people who are willing to jump into new crazy religion. The growth in industrial world is stagnant the best. Significant growh is comming from underdeveloped countries where population does not possess critical thinking skills to analyze religion indoctrination. It is always much harder to proselyte in countries that went through deep secularization like France, Estonia, or Czech Republic versus countries were faith is an integral part of anyone identity.

    When it comes to donations, years 2008-2012 were bad due deep economic recession. While the global crisis started in USA and UK sooner than elsewhere, in many industrial countries like Spain, Italy, Ireland, and Greece, it peaked in 2011 and did not yet recovered. Even less affected countries reached their peak in 2008 in 2014. It will take another five years to see really demographic and economic trend among JW. Considering that even deep recession did not boost their ranks, I doubt that they will succeed in recovering economies.

    Third world is major fishing ground for religions including JWs. But WT is not only player there. Catholic, mormon, Islam, and other faith compete there heavily for the souls.

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    The branch closings are hard proof that they are in official decline and retrenching.

    They are dead in the water in Europe and most of the developed world, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

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