It seems to me that you have to read that with the pre-concieved notion that god had a just reason for confusing the languages to arrive at that conclusion. God said these guys can do whatever they set their mind to, we need to confuse their languages. Unless god speaks in non-sequiter, that's a pretty clear statement of the problem followed by the solution.
OneEyedJoe
JoinedPosts by OneEyedJoe
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35
Nimrod: Fact or fiction
by dugout innimrod and the tower of babel-is this history or biblical myth.
god confused their lauguges?.
sounds quite comical when you think about it.
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Nimrod: Fact or fiction
by dugout innimrod and the tower of babel-is this history or biblical myth.
god confused their lauguges?.
sounds quite comical when you think about it.
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OneEyedJoe
If it is true, it could be that God wanted the people to spread out and fill
the earth and not congregate in the middle east.
Confusing the languages would facilitate that.
If that's the case, why does the bible misrepresent god's reason for doing it? The bible is pretty clear that god confused the languages in order to limit their capabilities.
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SAD HOLY SPIRIT ILLUSTRATION
by GreenhornChristian injust got an email from elder sharing illustration from assembly.
the holy spirit does not seem to be in control as it supposedly was in the 1st century.
it's just lube now.
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OneEyedJoe
Reminds me of a talk by the CO a while back in which he asserted that HS "flows" to us from the GB down through the organization, to each of us in the congregations. I believe a comparison was made to the roman aqueducts. He said that we needed to make sure that our thinking was in line with the organization because we didn't want to "block the flow" of the HS. I was still mentally in at the time of the talk, and now that I'm typing this up, i think it was possibly one of the most culty talks ever. Completely removed Jesus from the equation, and the GB/organization are now in charge of supplying holy spirit.
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Nimrod: Fact or fiction
by dugout innimrod and the tower of babel-is this history or biblical myth.
god confused their lauguges?.
sounds quite comical when you think about it.
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OneEyedJoe
Also adds to the confusion of the issue of soverignty issue.
[As the story goes], God decided to let man have a hand at governing himself to prove that he would be unsuccessful, but then just as soon as man gets to the point of really being able to accomplish something grand ("he could accomplish anything his heart desired") he meddles with them such as confusing the language to thwart their efforts.
That seems fair and just.
Doc
That's a really great point. It's like god said "Oh, shit, they're better at this than I thought they'd be!"
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Nimrod: Fact or fiction
by dugout innimrod and the tower of babel-is this history or biblical myth.
god confused their lauguges?.
sounds quite comical when you think about it.
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OneEyedJoe
It wouldn't surprise me if there was some great building project that was started but eventually failed, but the confused languages bit is just an explanation for something they didn't understand (i.e. we all came from adam, so why don't we all speak the same language?). Of course, today, we have observed the evolution of language and understand how different groups end up speaking completely different languages. If god really confused the languages, he didn't do a very good job since english/spanish/latin/etc all share a lot of words, as well as many gramatical constructs.
Just in the relatively short period of time that the US and UK have been seperate cultures, it's clear that we're developing our own disprate languages. In the US if you ask for a lift, you're asking for a ride home, in the UK you'll be directed to the nearest elevator. Clearly god is not required to cause this "confusion."
What's more, is if god observed a group of people trying to build a tower that would rise into the heavens in order to be impervious to any future flood, I can't imagine why he would've done anything more than laugh. If the flood waters covered the top of Mt. Everest, they couldn't have had the slightest chance of building a tower higher than that, especially not starting in the region where they're supposed to have begun building, as it is barely above sea level. With all our technology (and vastly greater world population) we would be hard pressed to build such a tower today. So why would god confuse the languages to stop them from attempting something that was beyond their means anyway? Just to be a dick? I think it would've been a greater "witness" to the superiority of god if he'd just let them fail on their own, instead of acting as if he were afraid that they might succeed.
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How many born ins actually stay?
by lostinthought ini was wondering if anyone know sany statistics of the amount of born ins that actually stay in the orginization.
i think i have read it before on here but i can't really remember what it was.
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OneEyedJoe
The statistics make me think that there's some hope, but my personal (anecdotal evidence) experience hasn't been as good. Of those that I was friends with growing up, there were a few that never got baptized, didn't really go to meetings, etc. all of them eventually got baptized in their 20s and are now as 'in' as they can be. I only know of 2 that left, one was gay and I don't know the circumstances of the other, but I think he just didn't care enough (whatever it takes). I just hope both found TTATT. 2 out of a group of 10-15 isn't entirely optimistic.
It definitely varies from one group to another. One (more recent) friend of mine said the other day that essentially everyone he grew up with is now DF'd.
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Going on the OFFENSIVE
by Coded Logic inthe wtbts has an easy time painting x-witnesses as apostates because the direction of information is entirely one way.
and jws rarely get an opportunity to consider both sides of the equation for themselves.
i think that websites like this one are a great tool for those who are already questioning their beliefs or are already entirely out.
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OneEyedJoe
Gone AWOL - sounds like a great idea to me. One thing I'd recommend, though is to go with a less controversial message. The UN thing is just so unbelievable to anyone who's still indoctrinated that they'll probably assume it's a creative lie and not investigate further.
I like the idea of printing up the picture on jwfacts (or on like it) that shows a grandparent with their child and grandchild captioned "how many generations do you see?" Then the address for jwfacts. Since the generation change is still fresh, I feel like that's probably the best thing to go with.
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Going on the OFFENSIVE
by Coded Logic inthe wtbts has an easy time painting x-witnesses as apostates because the direction of information is entirely one way.
and jws rarely get an opportunity to consider both sides of the equation for themselves.
i think that websites like this one are a great tool for those who are already questioning their beliefs or are already entirely out.
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OneEyedJoe
If you get too aggressive about it, you inevitably end up playing the role (bitter apostate) that the wts has cast for us. If you're not careful, you may actually delay someone's awakening by keeping the apostate phobia strong. The only way any apostate information will ever take hold is if it is presented in a non-threatening way. There are few ways to do that better than to just put it up online and let the doubters find it themselves. Of we remain passive, everytime the WT has an article about bitter apostates it will stir up doubts because it won't line up with their experience.
That said, I think simple signs (I.e. ones with only www.jwfacts.com written on them) might work since it plants a small seed that can eventual come to fruition in private. Additionally, I try to play a small role by never directly going in the name for sites like this, instead I use Google to get to it, which can improve the rankings and get the sites a little more visibility.
The public in-your-face campaigns handing out leaflets at conventions will probably never have great success because even a jw with huge doubts can't take anything while others are watching.
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IF you believe in evolution, theistic or not.....
by DATA-DOG inare you more amazed by nature documentaries now, or were they better when "god did it"??.
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dd.
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OneEyedJoe
Nature shows are way cooler when in the context of evolution, for sure. One of my favorite quotes that sort of related to the topic, by Douglas Adams:
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
Going a but further, I think it's more beautiful when you don't believe in the fairies.
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2014 AGM announcement rumour
by yadda yadda 2 infrom barbara anderson, former watchtower headquarters researcher and writer, on another recent thread:.
it is expected that at the 2014 annual meeting, usually held the first saturday in october, will serve watchtower leaders well to cover-up all the 100-years of prophetic nonsense.
rumor has it they are going to celebrate their 100-years of announcing the kingdom in an adroit way by featuring a move of "great" significance to do with the expansion of the governing body to an "apostolic" 12 or some other fantasy idea.. .
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OneEyedJoe
As far as picking the new GB members from non-annointed goes, I kinda expect that you'll start seeing non-annointed GB helpers start partaking, then 5-10 years later bam they're on the GB. Since the scriptures talking about the anointment are meant to apply to all christians, it seems like it'd be pretty easy for a couple GB members to sit down with their chosen future member, discuss some scriptures and leave with the candidate planning on partaking at the next memorial. Do this right before the memorial, get them to partake once and they're now in too deep to reconsider.