I don't know for sure about all in my congregation, but any of the elders that are under the age of 60 are born-in. A couple who are 60-80 are recruits but have been in the cult for well over half their lives at this point. Of the non-born ins that I know a little better, all were recruited in their late teens or early 20s.
OneEyedJoe
JoinedPosts by OneEyedJoe
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20
Elders: Born-Ins vs Recruits
by breakfast of champions inthis is an unofficial survey.. was curious as to the number of currently serving elders who were born-in and/or raised as jw versus those who were "recruited"( i.e, not born in or raised as jw.).
for instance, right now in the hall i am assigned to:.
2 elders were born-in and/or raised as jws.. 5 were not (recruited as adults).
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36
A Non J-Dub paying a visit to KingDumb Hall!
by J-DUBBED ini was thinking of doing a pop-in visit when they're doing their thing(what ever that might be).
to just see what it is that lures and hooks people, like our son.
i was worried there is some sort of subliminal messages in audio or video that start to brain-wash a person.
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OneEyedJoe
As others have said, the love bombing is the biggest thing to be aware of your first time out. If you're aware of what's going to happen, though, it will give you the objectivity to not be sucseptible to it. You'll likely quickly understand how someone in an emotionally vulnerable state could get pulled in.
I would also reccomend that you read this information on the BITE model just so that you can be on the lookout for ways in which they are able to control people. You'll almost certainly see examples of emotional manipulation at every meeting, and the behavioral control will be obvious when you walk in and see a bunch of clean-shaven men in suits and women in dresses (no pants) etc. The information/thought control is a little less frequent but it wouldn't surprise me if you caught some good examples of that too.
Also, while far from the magic mind control ray that you fear, I would also suggest that you not participate in singing the songs (someone will almost certainly offer you a song book), or bowing your head during the prayers. There's a known psychological effect that occurs when you perform small acts of conformity like that and it will cause you to relate to the cultists a little more and you'll lose some of your objectivity. I don't think it's likely that you'll get sucked into the cult, but it's important to stay as detached as possible so that you can recognize and call them on their bulls**t if needed.
All that is probably overkill, but I'm the type that prefers to be over-prepared for things and figured if you asked the question you might be too.
What would you suggest? I have no idea other than to walk in and act like a deaf mute....
It depends on what you're hoping to gain by the visit, but I don't see any reason why the truth (that your son joined up and you thought it was time that you saw what it was all about) would hurt anything.
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How Do You Answer Someone Who Says JWs Are Not False Prophets?
by minimus init used to bother me that people would say that about my well meaning religion.
how do you prove that witnesses are indeed, false prophets?.
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OneEyedJoe
If you ask any JW what prophecies the WTS has made / got right then they will invariable say something about predicting 1914.
That was me probably a year ago - though I was also the one asking the question. You don't even have to find old publications, even the latest "God's Kingdom Rules" book admits that in 1914 they believed that JC's presence began in 1874.
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How Do You Answer Someone Who Says JWs Are Not False Prophets?
by minimus init used to bother me that people would say that about my well meaning religion.
how do you prove that witnesses are indeed, false prophets?.
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OneEyedJoe
One of the most damning indicators of Watchtower's guilt as a false prophet is their own Reasoning Book
Out of curiosity I looked it up. I found this sentence particularly hilarious -
If any individuals or organizations claim to represent God but decline to use God’s personal name, and make it a practice to express their own opinions on matters, are they measuring up to this important qualification of a true prophet?
By this line of reasoning Jesus was a false prophet! If I remember correctly, there's no recording of him using God's personal name.
And the second half is pretty good too, if an individual makes it a practice to express their own opinions on matters they're a false prophet - Sorta like AMIII at two zone visits, and he even went so far to tell any objectors "take it up with god" and to claim in his concluding prayer that the cousel was not from the branch, but from jesus.
False prophets even by their own convoluted definition
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The Jonestown Massacre, Remembered
by Londo111 inhttp://time.com/3583781/jonestown-massacre/.
it was 36 years ago today.. the watchtower has caused far more deaths due to the blood transfusion ban and the suicides from disfellowshipping.
unfortunately, these deaths are mostly invisible to the public, since they didnat occur at once and in one location.. .
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OneEyedJoe
I truly feel that the essence of the WTB&TS boils down to the same kind of control that Jones had.
I don't think there can be any arguing with that.
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/would-you-take-the-pill-a-simple-facebook-test-has-shocking-results
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Will firing the DOs be the first step to a new Watchtower?
by Juan Viejo2 inagainst my better judgement, i've decided to share the following as a response to guy pierce passing and the announcement of the elimination of district overseers later this year.. late in january (2014) i got an email from one of my contacts (a fader) who served at bethel for several years, but is no longer at wt hq.
he still has a lot of close contacts within the service department and in other departments at patterson and knows people in all of the ny offices.
i kept this email set aside on a flash drive and haven't shared it with anyone - figuring i'd publish an article about it later this year when i had more time to do it right.
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OneEyedJoe
really? Like what?
'cause I don't see one single thing from the OP that has come true yet.
Thanks...I was beginning to wonder if my reading comprehension had taken a dive - the only thing in the OP that happened was the firing of the DOs, which was already a done deal at the time of the post. 144k symbolic? nope. New GB members? nope. The only other thing that could be said to have occurred is that there have been changes and hints of changes in the magazines - but that's always the case with this cult.
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10
creating planets how does it work?
by Crazyguy ini read that many believe planet's start out as large rocks that create some gravity there by attracting more asteroids, then comets etc and become larger and larger until its a planet.
ok but how do the explain the rotation or spinning of the planet and the energy that a planet has ie lava etc.
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OneEyedJoe
The swirling effect is just created by all the gas and dust coming towards the densest point in the cloud due to gravity. As it collects, the gravity gets stronger and it swirls in faster - sorta like the water draining out of a bathtub. The rotation of the planets is the left over momentum from the same effect, combined with the effect of past impacts with other massive bodies in the early solar system.
As for the process of accretion , it's actually a bit more complicated - in the early solar system there was tons of dust and gas swirling around, but no single particle has enough gravity to bind it to another. Instead static charge starts to stick the dust together to form larger pebbles. these pebbles still don't have enough gravity to pull anything in, but through chance collisions (which often have sufficient energy to melt the rocks into a molten ball, fusing the two peices together) they'll eventually get to that point and gravity starts to take over. This is a gross simplification, but if you look up some information on accretion, I'm sure you'll find some interesting reading if you want more.
As for the molten core of the earth, it's also, to a certain extent, a left-over from the early solar system. The impacts with other proto-planets left the earth sorta a molten ball, and the surface has now cooled but the core is still hot. There's also the effect of the earth's gravity applying immense pressure on the core that keeps it hot, along with tidal forces (from both the moon and sun) that create friction inside the earth's core to heat it up.
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Organic molecules detected by Philae
by konceptual99 inhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-30097648.
lots of detail to be added but very interesting news..... .
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OneEyedJoe
It seems likely that most of the water on earth was delivered by comets.
Actually, I was reading something recently that indicated that (contrary to the long-held thought that comets did it) most of the water on the earth is much older than can be explained by comets delivering it.
Not the article I initially read, but on the same topic from a quick google search:
http://www.designntrend.com/articles/23895/20141103/earths-water-older-previously-thought.htm
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Ongoing frustration with wife
by Flipping El ini've tried taking the slow, patient approach with my wife.
i believe i first posted here about 13 months ago about my wife.. we've always had good communication and could talk endlessly about philosophy, neuroscience, sociology and then when i learned the ttatt, i clammed up a bit about spiritual things.
i'd always been fairly liberal, suggesting other alternative ideas, but then i told my wife about the un/ngo scandal (i ran across the guardian story doing a talk as an ms, lol!
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OneEyedJoe
If me telling her would have ended this marriage then would it have lasted if some other big disagreement or problem came our way?
I think about this a lot. I think part of the problem, though, is that objection to the cult isn't seen as just any old disagreement or problem. The cult is the 3rd strand of the 3-fold cord of your marriage, and they're indoctrinated to believe that if that goes away the marriage is doomed and it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy.
Flipping El - I don't have a lot of sage advice for you, since I'm not in any better of a situation, but I would suggest that you do at least have one advantage - you talk about it. My wife knows there's something wrong, and I've made some statements here and there about things that I object to, but she doesn't ask me anything about it. I think you may be closer than you think to reaching her if she at least is asking you what's up. One suggestion that I'd give would be to get some sort of commitment out of her prior to discussing it further. When she asks you what's wrong, ask her "if we talk about it, will you promise that you'll try to see it from my point of view without judging or making assumptions?" or maybe ask that she make an effort not to be upset that you've expressed an honest feeling.
In some ways I envy you that you talk about it at all. Because I always knew there was something wrong with JWism (and religion in general) I never really wanted to talk about it at all - it was too uncomfortable because of my many doubts. Now we're at a point where we just don't talk about it and the only JW activity we do together is sit at the kingdom hall. There's so much unspoken tension that I don't even know where to begin in addressing it. If i could get her to ask me what's wrong I feel like there'd at least be some relief. What's more, I know she's constructing her own little story about why I'm doing what I am and this imaginary story is going to do nothing but cast me in a bad light.
Anyways, please keep us updated. Hearing stories like yours is about the only source of hope that I have. Even if you don't make progress or hit a snag, it helps just to know other people are going through the same problems. Thanks for sharing.
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Londo - I've often thought the very same thing about Hassan's methods. When you've been born-in and married for 10 years, even asking a question that betrays some doubt is immediately viewed with suspicion. Since questions are the main way he says to get someone thinking, I just don't know what to do...
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How to wake up and reverse the trance???
by J-DUBBED inhow do you wake up someone taken from us by these screwed up people?.
our son was hooked by a jw at the age of 25. within 3 months they were married and we never even new about it.
he is now 29 and has nothing to do with his family(except his sister the odd time, when he needs something) of any freinds.. we are lost and have been for four years.. .
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OneEyedJoe
Just nice if there was some magic word to say and he'd open his eyes.
If there where, I suspect this forum would not exist. It sounds like you have a lot of work to do in order to repair your relationship with your son. You telling him that you'd rather he be a drunk/druggy instead of a JW will sound to his ears that you'd rather he be a drunk vs "serving the true god." That's almost certainly a large factor in why you've been shut out. JWs don't normally completely shun non-believing family once they're indoctrinated (though there's usually a significant withdraw). For him to completely shut you out of his life he has decided that you hate him and are persecuting him for his stance to (as he sees it) serve god. Unfortunately, you played right into their hands. New JWs are indoctrinated into expecting persecution from family/friends very soon when they start studying. When family/friends learn of their cult involvement, obviously they'll raise objections - and knowing nothing of cult mind control, they play right into the expectation of persecution. Your objection to your son's joining the cult only reinforced the indoctrination by essentially proving their prediction right. You NEED to make amends for hurting him. Write letters, send emails, call or visit, whatever it takes. You CANNOT attack him or his beliefs, only express concern for his completely withdrawing from his family that loves him.
From reading your additional posts, I'm going to restate that you absolutely need to read Steven Hassan's books. There's a lot of information there that will help you to fix the root cause of the problem. It sounds like there's a lot that needs to be repaired before you can even begin to undo his indoctrination. This is going to be a long process and will require a ton of work and patience from you.