Posts by OneEyedJoe

44

We talk a lot about conditional friends on here

by cappytan in

jw
friends

so, when people post about being shunned by their friends, i've heard several posters say things like, "their friendship is conditional.

real friendships aren't conditional.".

i'm sorry, but that just isn't really true.. if you and i were friends, there are conditions.

OneEyedJoe

Yeah, I tend to agree. There's conditions to everything. The point, though, is that when those conditions include privately held beliefs/morals or things done in private that don't impact the other party in any way, that's someone attempting to enforce an undue level of control over your life. It's just easier to call it unconditional love than to go into all the ins and outs.

One other difference is that many people (though they may not get there immediately) can still find it within themselves to wish another person well even after ending a friendship due to being wronged. Even if they no longer wish to pursue the relationship, they can forgive and forget. That, to me, is the only version of unconditional love that can really be said to exist. And much of the time it's wholly absent in JWs. I've heard the most vitriolic slander spoken about people merely because they no longer attend meetings. They haven't even wronged anyone in any way, they simply don't believe it. Yet they are spoken against and many JWs will miss no opportunity to make their life more difficult.

I get it that when people don't see someone twice a week, their friendship is probably going to drop off and not be as close. People lose touch. That's fine. When people are suggesting that simply because you're not around you're lying, cheating on your spouse, stealing or (honestly, I've heard all of these said about apostates by their family members, and the only justification given was their apostasy) plotting to purchase a bunch of guns and shoot up a kingdom hall - that's the sort of stuff that crosses the line. The fact that most JWs are mentally prepared to treat you like you don't exist merely for failure to believe the insane claims of 7 men in NY demonstrates that not only do they not show unconditional love, but that they don't really love to begin with.

8

Possible crack in the door that I can expose

by WasOnceBlind in

so on monday when i went to pick up my son from my mom i noticed a framed print out of a poem on my moms living room.

it was in spanish but i read it and i was kind of surprised at what it said.

i don't remember it verbatim but i would go as far as to say it had some apostate factors in there.

OneEyedJoe

In my opinion there is a difference between the actual teaching and how most dubs rationalize it in their lives.
My wife would never agree that only witnesses will survive to the new system but she wouldn't disagree with the WTS viewpoint either. Weird right?
Maybe the lady that rejected his door knocking efforts did die at armageddon and was resurrected? That would fit dub theology.

Agreed. When I said something about how JWs believe that only JWs will survive armageddon, she responded "I've never believed that." A friend of mine similarly refuted that belief, indicating that he believed that J will read the hearts of everyone on earth. My question, then, was why are we bothering to preach if he's going to read everyone's heart? If they don't have to do anything more than be good at heart, then why are we going around telling people 'what god requires of them' and just let them be? That's when they start inventing their own theology and saying things about how loving the organization is and how it's the best way of life.

I myself struggled with this teaching and had to tell myself that they'd gotten it wrong, but that was one of my major doubts. I guess if you're the type that really wants truth, you'll see that pulling one string quickly causes the whole thing to come apart. If you're just in it for the social support or a sense of self-righteousness, you can invent a hastily stacked house of cards made from excuses and as long as you don't touch it, it stays up.

Then there's the spiteful, bigoted, self-righteous JWs (usually elders) who wholeheartedly believe that anyone who's not a JW will die at armageddon.

As for the JW theology allowing for the woman to die at armageddon and be resurrected - I don't think that's correct. I think for her to make it she would've had to die moments before armageddon, but if she lasted to armageddon and god had to be the one to kill her, he doesn't bring her back. If, after all, god kills her at armageddon only to bring her back, this could not possibly be just. If Jesus died for everyone's sins, then this would be a needless death.

15

bust fellow worker leaving job 2 hours to go to KH

by JunkYardDog in

jw
friends

the last 2 tuesdays one of my fellow workers would step out for 2 hours.

tonight he came back with a wt book in spanish .

i worked with his this man year and never knew he was a jw.. i went into how the wt lied to the mexician gov't just to own the land of the kh's .

OneEyedJoe

Typical freeloading, lazy, entitlement-minded, JW moocher. Report his dumb ass to the Boss immediately, and have a good, clean conscious. After all, Jehovah will provide for him.

Yeah, you'll be doing him a favor! We all know that anyone who gets fired for going to meetings will find a better paying job that very same day! Plus it'll be fewer hours and he'll enjoy the work more!

23

WT is a human rights violator according to the definition of state.gov and USA law - time for us to start putting pressure in lawmakers!

by EndofMysteries in

religious freedom taken from http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/religiousfreedom/index.htm#wrapper.

quotingdirectly from the article...."it is the responsibility of governments to safeguard universal human rights and fundamental freedoms, including the right to life and the freedom of conscience, belief, practice, worship, and to explain and change ones faith.........people cannot enjoy religious freedom unless they have both the right to express their beliefs freely and change their religion without facing persecution, violence, or discrimination.... (ask yourself if the wt article i'm quoting next is allowing the freedom to change religion without discrimination and persecution.

so with that being said.....is the wt protecting religious freedom?

OneEyedJoe

This is far too complex an issue for it to be feasible to attack directly. At best I think you may get some sort of sanction against tax-exempt (loss of status, maybe) organizations that systematically advocate shunning people merely for changing religions. Or maybe something with regard to the use of shunning as punishment for failure to shun someone else. But there are ways around that. I don't think the government would ever take action to stop or sanction an organization for advocating that you shun people who don't live up to your moral standards, and that's a loophole that's big enough to probably make any government sanctions pointless and ineffective. Anyone with the power to enact some sort of sanction against the WTS would likely see this and decide not to devote any further energy to it.

12

Magazine Demo

by OzGirl in

two sisters did a magazine demo recently.

one used her tablet to show a scripture to the other one.

the second one said: "that looks easier than trying to find it in a book.".

OneEyedJoe

It's all about appearances. They didn't want people using paper printouts at meetings because they used to love to go on and on about how people in other churches didn't open their bibles. Now they're trying to appeal to a younger generation so it's all about technology.

Another advantage that I'm sure they just love is the way they've now designed the literature to be read from tablets. They've got the scriptures right in there at the end of the chapter, conveniently removed from the context. Now there's much less chance of a JW getting bored at a meeting and reading the context of cited scriptures and realizing that they're misrepresenting the meaning.

23

Halloween / Birthday celebration

by River Song in

new to the board, first time posting a topic.

i just wanted to say how refreshing and sometimes funny it has been lurking here.

so much so that i decided to sign up to this message board.

OneEyedJoe

Welcome! I always enjoy a good doctor who reference.

When you go trick or treating with your kids, do you ever have flash flashbacks? I guess the whole experience is pretty positive so hopefully not.

Have a great day you pagan, you.

13

Disfellowshipped at a funeral

by Yogapants in

recently at a funeral for an active jw, death was sudden and tragic.

was surprised that that one of the disfellowshipped children of the deceased was comforted by the jw's at the funeral.

i would say the majority hugged and said a few short words to the disfellowshipped child on the recieving line to comfort the family.

OneEyedJoe

I think usually funerals are seen as an opportunity to love bomb someone back into the cult. They might use different phrasing, of course, but I think many make an exception on the shunning in order to try to manipulate people to return. I've seen it a number of times.

Of course, if the love bombing doesn't yield immediate results, they're cut off again just as quickly.

It's absolutely disgusting the way this cult uses death/funerals almost solely as a means of recruitment, it's rarely about the deceased at all.

105

New Watchtower Propaganda and hate speech destroying families (Feb 2016 WT)

by Daniel1555 in

the following is a paragraph from the new february study watchtower article "learn from jehovah's loyal servants.".

7 a conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped.

for example, a sister named anne [1] received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother.

OneEyedJoe

I just realized (a little slow today) that Ann / Andre
are very similar names.
Might we expect to see more of her...?

I can hear the conversation in the writer's room now:

JW1: Hey, did you look over that WT article I wrote? Do you have any suggestions?

JW2: Yeah, you know where you talk about "Andre" *snickers* who wrote the letter to his shunned father? I think it might be a better idea to make them both women. You know those women seem to have a much harder time dealing with this, being the weaker, more emotional, vessel.

JW1: Great idea! But I've already got the layout all lined up....hmmm...I know! I'll just change "dr" to "n" in the name!

10

Curiosity killed the cat.

by James Mixon in

don't you think with all the talk about apostate sites, this is having a reverse.

effect for the rf.

if i was a jw today i would wonder what are all the lies these people are saying.. and i would try defending their truth on these sites, but in each case those that come here.

OneEyedJoe

In a way, the negativity towards apostates helped me to wake up. For a time the indoctrination had me questioning my own motives for doubting, but as things remained unresolved I eventually started to wonder if it were possible that not all apostates were simply looking for their own followers or just couldn't live up to god's standards and left, bitter. When I realized that I had never once actually heard of an example of someone leaving and trying to "draw off followers after themselves" I realized that they might not all fit so neatly into little boxes. Since there's no way to explore doubts in the cult without retribution (unless you're willing to accept the all too common excuses that don't stand up to even passing scrutiny, which I no longer was) I set out in search of information online. Since everything online is apostate (well, I wasn't about to jump through the ridiculous hoops to register on jwtalk) here I am.

Obviously there's always a lot more in play than just one factor, but I think the constant reinforcement that there are people who have left and disagree with the WT will make some wonder if maybe they'd fit in better with that group. The apostaphobia might be effective on those who are fully in and have no doubts or problems with the cult, but I think it can serve to push out those who are only hanging on by a thread.

47

Taking bets on how long this cult will last and what will happen to it

by macys in

i wanna make a poll here.

how many years do you think the jdub cult will exist as is and what will happen to it?.

i say the growth stops this year and starts to decline.

OneEyedJoe

The Borg has survived two world wars, and the great depression,

The cult has proven that it can flourish in difficult times (as do most religions) but as the world becomes more prosperous, I think they're going to have more trouble.