OneEyedJoe

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Posts by OneEyedJoe

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  29

  if pre 1975 you said "The system will still be here late 2017" what would be the J.W's reaction?

  by karter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one word for it.....apostate!

  !.

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  OneEyedJoe

  I remember doing some reasoning along the lines of the unexpected hanging paradox (i.e. you're going to be hung this week, but you won't expect it - you know it can't be friday because if friday comes you'd expect it, therefore it can't be thursday for similar reasons, etc, etc) when I was in my late teens (I think it was about 1998) and declaring to my mother that armageddon couldn't possibly come before 2000, because everyone expected it to come before then and it was supposed to come unexpectedly. That earned me a stern rebuke, and I was told never to say anything like that again.
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  9

  Leah Remini Returning to A&E to Investigate JWs

  by AMNESIANO in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  “the first episode will be about jehovah witnesses and another episode will be about nxivm, a controversial self-empowerment group, according to the source.”.

  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/leah-remini-returning-to-ae-to-investigate-other-cult-like-religions/amp/.

  amnesian.

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  OneEyedJoe

  Am I missing it or did it not say when the new season will air? Will it be called the same thing (seems like they might change the name since it's not about scientology anymore). I want to make sure I don't miss this.
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  69

  284000 baptized in 2017

  by jw-verite in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  seen in the 03/2018 watchtower study :.

  "during the 2017 service year, more than 284,000 “rightly disposed” individuals symbolized their dedication to jehovah by water baptism.".

  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-march-2018/baptism-requirement-for-christians/.

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  OneEyedJoe

  The numbers for the US are pretty telling, though. 28k baptized, with a publisher growth of only 3k. No matter how you interpret that, it's not promising. Even without the typical calculus that would leave you estimating that 25k left (obviously this is only an estimate and relies on these numbers being typical and sustained since baptisms and publishers aren't exactly aligned). Looking at the publisher growth as people that are soon to be getting baptized actually makes it look worse in my view. Yeah, they baptized 28k last year, but if the publisher growth stays at these levels, baptisms will inevitably dry up too.
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  12

  JW.org Featured Artical: When Your Adolescent Questions Your Faith

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is one of the featured articals on jw.borg at the moment.

  could it be because the young ones are googling their parents religion?, seeing the bullshit?, and calling their parents out on it?

  i hope so.. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20120201/adolescent-questions-faith/.

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  OneEyedJoe

  This article brings back memories for me.
  

  Yeah, same here. The strategy of "you have doubts so we're going to study with you more" is exactly how my parents approached my questions starting when I was about 12. Repeatedly being punished with stern looks and monotonous drudgery for asking questions or expressing negative emotions taught me to repress my emotions and has had far reaching effects for my personal relationships...
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  12

  JW.org Featured Artical: When Your Adolescent Questions Your Faith

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is one of the featured articals on jw.borg at the moment.

  could it be because the young ones are googling their parents religion?, seeing the bullshit?, and calling their parents out on it?

  i hope so.. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20120201/adolescent-questions-faith/.

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  OneEyedJoe

  Wow, what a great article.

  As they mature, many youths choose to adopt the religion of their parents. (2 Timothy 3:14) Some, however, do not. What can you do if your growing child starts to question your faith? This article will discuss how Jehovah’s Witnesses handle such a challenge.

  A couple thoughts right off the bat - many youths adopt the religion of their parents...isn't that very fact demonstrative of a giant hole in your doctrine that deserving ones find "the truth"? If it turns out that many children blindly adopt the religion of their youth, how can it be that a just god would kill them for something that is clearly a built-in psychological bias that, presumably, god was the one to build-in?

  Next, it's interesting that they seem to be starting this article out referring to it as if it's a general problem regardless of what religion you subscribe to. Of course they say this as they send their members out to try to recruit other people's children into their cult. Hypocrite much?

  Also I love how they passively force any JWs reading this to adopt whatever advice they give by simply stating it as a fact that 'this is how JWs handle this" instead of something like "here's some ways to handle this situation." They just assume that their word is taken as law by all JWs. They're quite full of themselves.

  “I don’t want to follow my parents’ religion anymore. I just feel like giving up.”—Cora, 18. *

  Of course - kids that don't want to continue on with your cult are just lazy and worn down and weak...it couldn't possibly be that they've discovered that they've been systematically lied to by every adult that they've grown to trust....

  YOU are convinced that your religion teaches the truth about God. You believe that the Bible promotes the best way of life. It is only natural, then, that you try to instill your values in your child. (Deuteronomy 6:6, 7) But what if, as he grows, your child loses interest in spiritual things? * What if he begins questioning the very faith that he seemed to accept eagerly as a child?—Galatians 5:7.

  Ahh yes, questioning one's faith is an emergency...but only if one is a JW. As is typical, they lead with "losing interest" as if the problem isn't with the cult itself, but with the commitment of the child. No, it can't be the cult's fault.

  If that is happening, do not conclude that you have failed as a Christian parent. Other factors may be involved, as we will see. However, know this: How you handle your adolescent’s questioning may well determine whether he will choose to draw closer to your faith or pull farther away from it. If you declare war with your adolescent over this issue, you are in for a strenuous battle—a battle that you are almost certain to lose.—Colossians 3:21.

  Well I wasn't thinking I was a failure until you put the idea in my head...now I'm depressed, what should I do about my new depression? Oh, right, more service and meetings and ritual prayer and obedience. Especially for those parents that have already "lost" their child to unbelief, this paragraph seems designed to instill a feeling of failure and weakness in the readers to whom it applies.

  It is far better to heed the admonition of the apostle Paul. “A slave of the Lord does not need to fight,” he wrote, “but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, keeping himself restrained.” (2 Timothy 2:24) How can you show yourself “qualified to teach” if your adolescent questions your faith?

  Never miss a chance to do some light programming. Remember: you're a slave.

  Deceived?
  Myth: Parents who are Jehovah’s Witnesses force their children to follow their faith.

  Oh, this is gonna be good.

  Fact: Witness parents strive to inculcate love for God in their offspring, just as the Bible commands them to. (Ephesians 6:4) Nevertheless, they realize that when a child becomes an adult, he or she will make a personal choice with regard to worship.—Romans 14:12; Galatians 6:5.

  Oh, when you put it that way it sounds super reasonable. Of course you fail to mention the, often life threatening via suicide, consequences that are dropped on a child that makes the "wrong" decision. This is scarcely more accurate than saying that a robber demanding money at gunpoint isn't forcing anyone to do anything. They are, after all, completely free to make their own decision about whether or not to comply...lets just not mention that if they don't they get shot.

  Be Discerning
  First, try to discern what factors might be contributing to your adolescent’s view. For example:

  Before I go any further, I'm going to make a prediction: none of the factors contributing to this will be related to the child's genuine desire to know the truth or their performing accurate research on reasonable doubts of insane doctrine.

  Does he feel lonely and friendless in the Christian congregation? “Because I wanted friends, I got close to several schoolmates, and it hindered my spiritual growth for years. I lost interest in spiritual things for the most part because of bad association, and now I have many regrets.”—Lenore, 19.
  Does he lack self-confidence, making it difficult for him to speak up about his faith? “When I was in school, I was hesitant to share my beliefs with my classmates. I was afraid that they would view me as weird or as a ‘Bible boy.’ Any kids who were different were rejected, and I didn’t want that to happen to me.”—Ramón, 23.
  Does he feel overwhelmed by the responsibility of living up to Christian standards? “I feel as if the Bible’s promise of everlasting life were at the top of a big stairway, and I am not even on the steps; I am far, far away from them. The fear of getting on the stairway has been so big that I have considered giving up my faith.”—Renee, 16.

  Ahh, yes. They're lonely, they're lacking self confidence or they're overwhelmed. I'll sum it up in two words: they're weak. That's the only reason for "doubts." Any "doubts" are always fueled by some other motivation. Not by the fact that they're being forced to listen to dubious claims backed by spurious evidence, which typically leads rather naturally to doubt. No, they first have a problem, then they invent doubts as an excuse to take the easy way out. That's the only thing it could possibly be!

  Talk It Out
  What underlying issue might your adolescent be facing? The best way to find out is to ask him! Be careful, though, not to let the discussion deteriorate into an argument. Instead, follow the admonition of James 1:19: “Be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath.” Be patient with him. Employ “all long-suffering and art of teaching,” just as you would with someone outside the family.—2 Timothy 4:2.
  For example, if your adolescent balks at attending Christian meetings, try to find out if something else is bothering him. But do so with patience. Little good is accomplished by the parent in the following scenario.
  Son: I just don’t like going to meetings anymore.
  Father: [hostile tone] What do you mean you don’t like going?
  Son: I find them boring, that’s all!
  Father: Is that how you feel about God? You find him boring? Well, that’s just too bad! As long as you live under our roof, you’re going with us—whether you like it or not!

  Yup, of course. The theme is that it's never just doubts, there's always some underlying weakness or problem with the child that has simply manifested superficially as doubts. Couldn't possibly be the cult at fault.

  God requires that parents teach their children about him and that children obey their parents. (Ephesians 6:1) However, you want your child to do more than blindly follow your spiritual routine and reluctantly go with you to Christian meetings. If at all possible, you would like his mind and heart to come along too.

  Except that's exactly what the cult demands of its followers - following blindly. Or lest we forget the now infamous 'follow any instructions received even if they don't make sense' directive in the watchtower?

  You have a better chance of accomplishing that if you discern any underlying issues that might be contributing to his attitude. With that in mind, consider how the above conversation could have been handled more effectively.
  Son: I just don’t like going to meetings anymore.
  Father: [calmly] Why do you feel that way?
  Son: I find them boring, that’s all!
  Father: Sitting for an hour or two can be boring. What do you find most challenging about it?
  Son: I don’t know. I guess I just feel like I’d rather be somewhere else.
  Father: Is that how your friends feel?
  Son: Well, that’s just it! I don’t have any—at least not anymore. Ever since my best friend moved away, I feel like there’s no one to talk to! Everyone else is having a good time. I feel so left out!
  By drawing out the adolescent, the father in the above scenario not only gets to the underlying issue—in this case, loneliness—but also builds trust, thus keeping the door open for further discussions.—See the accompanying box “Be Patient!”

  Ahh yes, the meetings aren't even boring, your child is just lying to you and to himself! They're not boring because of extreme monotony and repetition or because of the complete lack of informational content above a 3rd grade level, they're not even boring at all - he's mistaken his loneliness for boredom.

  Be Patient!
  Talking to your adolescent might require the utmost patience on your part. But the payoff—building trust—is worth it. One teenage girl relates: “In one night’s discussion, I told my dad that I secretly had a social network page and a boyfriend and that I wanted to run away. He stayed so calm as he talked the whole thing out with me! I don’t know another dad who could just sit there and not start yelling at his daughter when he found out she had kissed a guy and was texting him nonstop. I feel like I can tell my dad anything. I know he really wants to help me.”

  Really setting the bar low, aren't we? If you manage not to yell at your child for engaging in perfectly normal activities of youth, you're an exceptional parent the likes of you the world has not known! No consideration is given to the fact that this girl felt the need to have a double life so that she could explore natural impulses to have relationships with the opposite sex. Why could that be? Is it possible that her father (apparently unparalleled in his composure) is pushing an extremely repressive and damaging way of life on his daughter that makes it an almost certainty that she'll either live a double life or find herself in adulthood without the experience needed to make good decisions about who to date/marry? Nope, she just woke up one day and decided, for absolutely no reason at all, that she needed to have secrets from her (again, apparently reasonable) parents. If they're truly so reasonable and composed, why didn't she openly tell them about this boy before they started dating? If they're so reasonable and composed, why wouldn't they support their daughter in exploring life safely and maturely? It seems that she must have known that her father would have insisted on her repressing her feelings and desires instead of learning how to handle them appropriately. In any event, this example doesn't even pretend to be about the original topic of children doubting - they've now completely changed the subject to "kids are reckless little liars, don't trust them if they depart from anything the cult tells you."

  In time, many young ones learn that if they confront the issue that is impeding their spiritual growth, they will usually feel better about themselves and their faith. Consider Ramón, the young man quoted earlier who cringed at the thought of identifying himself as a Christian at school. Eventually, Ramón found that speaking up about his faith was not as traumatic as he imagined it would be—even when it resulted in ridicule. He relates:
  “On one occasion a boy at school was poking fun at me because of my religion. I got really nervous, and I sensed that the whole class was listening. Then I decided to turn the discussion around and ask him about his faith. To my surprise, he was even more nervous than I was! Then I realized that many young people have religious beliefs, but they don’t understand them. At least I can explain my beliefs. Really, when it comes to talking about faith, my classmates should be the ones who feel awkward—not me!”

  Not much to say about this...they continue to change the subject and avoid the real issue - what if the kid has real, legitimate doubts about cult doctrine that can't be answered?

  TRY THIS: Draw out your adolescent by asking him how he feels about being a Christian. In his own view, what are the benefits? What are the costs? Do the benefits outweigh the costs? If so, how? (Mark 10:29, 30) Your adolescent could write down his thoughts on paper using two columns—the left-hand one for the costs and the right-hand one for the benefits. Seeing his assessment on paper may help your adolescent to identify his problem and work out a solution.

  Get your kid to make Pascall's wager!

  Your Adolescent’s “Power of Reason”
  Parents and experts have observed that there is a marked difference between the way young children think and the way adolescents think. (1 Corinthians 13:11) While young children typically think in concrete, black-and-white terms, adolescents tend to reason on things more abstractly. For example, a young child can be taught that God created all things. (Genesis 1:1) However, an adolescent might wrestle with such questions as: ‘How do I know that there is a God? Why would a God of love permit evil? How can it be true that God has always existed?’—Psalm 90:2.

  The lesson here: think like a child. We don't want people who's mental capacity rises even to the level of adolescence, regress yourself and your children to the point that they'll think in black and white and blindly accept authority...that's the way to live to be sure!

  You might feel that such questioning represents a step backward in your adolescent’s faith. In reality, it may well represent a step forward. After all, questioning can be an important aspect of a Christian’s spiritual growth.—Acts 17:2, 3.

  But only if your questioning leads you to double down on being a JW!

  Furthermore, your adolescent is learning to use his “power of reason.” (Romans 12:1, 2) As a result, he is able to appreciate “the breadth and length and height and depth” of the Christian faith in a way that he simply could not as a child. (Ephesians 3:18) More than ever, now is the time to help your adolescent reason on his beliefs so that he can develop firm convictions regarding his faith.—Proverbs 14:15; Acts 17:11.

  "help your adolescent reason" - read: wear them down by forcing them down the endless road of nonsense "reason" that the cult has published until they just don't have any fight left in them and the concede that the cult must be "the truth"

  The Value of a Mentor
  Sometimes youths are helped when an adult outside the family provides encouragement. Do you know someone whose spiritual outlook could be an inspiration to your adolescent? Why not arrange for him or her to spend time with your son or daughter? Your purpose is not to abdicate your responsibility. But think of Timothy. He benefited greatly from the apostle Paul’s example, and Paul benefited greatly by having Timothy as a companion.—Philippians 2:20, 22. *

  Keep throwing more and more authority at the kid until he submits out of sheer exhaustion or becomes distracted by someone that he actually looks up to. Whatever you do, don't address any actual doubts head on, because that's a battle you're sure to lose.

  TRY THIS: Go back to the basics with your adolescent, revisiting subjects that you—and he—might have taken for granted. For example, have him think about such questions as: ‘What convinces me that there is a God? What evidence do I observe that shows that God cares about me? Why do I feel that it is always in my best interests to obey God’s laws?’ Be careful not to force your views on your adolescent. Instead, help him develop his own convictions. That way he will find it easier to build confidence in his faith.

  If your kid has doubts, punish them with study topics that are even more basic and boring than they're already used to! That'll show them that doubt only reaps punishment and it'll teach them to repress any negative feelings about the cult because it only makes their lives worse!

  “Persuaded to Believe”
  The Bible speaks of the young man Timothy who “from infancy” knew the holy writings. Yet, the apostle Paul urged Timothy: “Continue in the things you learned and were persuaded to believe.” (2 Timothy 3:14, 15) Like Timothy, your adolescent may have been educated in Bible standards from birth. Now, though, you need to persuade him so that he develops his own convictions.

  This paragraph is a little all over the place with a pretty poor analogy drawn to timothy. - are we to tell the kids to continue on like paul told timothy, or are we meant to persuade as timothy apparently was before paul told him to continue? Was timothy persuaded from infancy? If so that's a bit of a misnomer...you can hardly call directives handed down to an infant "persuasion." This paragraph is so poorly strung together that I don't even know how to criticize the actual content...

  The book Questions Young People Ask—Answers That Work, Volume 1, states: “As long as your adolescent lives under your roof, you have the right to require compliance with a spiritual routine. In the end, however, your goal is to instill love for God in your teen’s heart—not simply to elicit some mechanical action.” By keeping that goal in mind, you can help your adolescent become “solid in the faith” so that it becomes his way of life—not just yours. *—1 Peter 5:9.

  Try to brainwash your kid but, failing that, you'd better be damn sure that they keep going through the motions and serving the cult. If, in going through the motions, they actually manage to recruit someone, the cognitive dissonance is sure to overwhelm them into staying in the cult - so there's always hope

  ASK YOURSELF . . .
  How do I react when my child questions my beliefs?
  How could I use the material in this article to improve the way that I react?

  God forbid they publish something without demanding that you incorporate it into your psyche by envisioning yourself following their instructions...
  
  
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  12

  Walked in on my son doing personal study...

  by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho in

  1. social
  2. humour

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  yeah, he's a weird kid.

  but at least he's studious..

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  OneEyedJoe

  Sorry,...but when I saw the title, I thought it was a euphemism.....

  Came here to say this. I'm definitely using that later...put it right along side "gentleman's time" in my repertoire.
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  33

  Did You Know “Weird JWs” When You Were In The Organization?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it could be argued that all jws are weird.

  .

  i’m referring to really weird odd witnesses.. most of the oddballs that i remember were elders..

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  OneEyedJoe

  The observed pervasiveness of "oddball" JWs and JWs with clearly below average mental capacity was probably the very first troubling fact that I noticed about the cult - I remember asking my parents about this when I was about 12 years old: "Why does it seem that there are fewer smart people that have found the truth than ones like so-and-so." Of course I was given the expected nonsense about how god requires humility and he called those that were unlettered and ordinary, but even at that age I knew that was bullshit because "unlettered" was a status had by the vast majority in Jesus' time and besides other prominent figures like Paul and Moses were quite well educated, among other examples. The tone in my parent's voice and the look on their faces made it clear that this was not a question I should be asking, though, and the resumption of our family study shortly thereafter also seemed clearly connected. It didn't take me long to learn the lesson - suppress my doubts and any negative feelings about the cult or face consequences. That's a survival mechanism that's caused a ton of damage to my relationships and well being and I've only just begun to make progress resolving it in the last year or so.

  Anyway, specific examples of oddball JWs:

  The elder that did some of my baptism questions claimed to be anointed (and he claimed to be so before the removal of the 1935 doctrine, and he wasn't old enough to have qualified...) but most in the congregation couldn't see how he could possibly be anointed. During my baptism questions he went on a looooong rant about how his previous wife had cheated on him multiple times but he'd stuck by her because that's what jehovah wanted and it wasn't until she left him that they were divorced.

  An MS of clearly diminished mental capacity once gave a prayer in which he apologized to Jehovah for "all the shit...errr...stuff that we do."

  There were a number of MSes that clearly struggled to read, not just on the platform but in casual settings as well.

  I knew at least 3 sisters that seemed to see god's hand in literally every aspect of their lives and weren't shy about sharing the details of these interventions in casual conversation as well as in 4-5 minute comments on an unrelated paragraph of the watchtower study. Experiences included deciding to go out in service instead of going to the store to buy toilet paper when, wouldn't you know it - she found a roll of toilet paper in the street.

  Honestly, I think nearly all the eminently normal people I knew in the cult (or, at least, they would've been normal had they not been in the cult) were from the pre-1975 era when the cult literature at least had something that exercised the mind (even if said exercise was mental gymnastics) and the few exceptions to this rule were the children of these ones. It seems any new converts that came in after 1975 were all a bit loony....I guess they'd have to be.
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  10

  Baby parts story from 1989 Awake magazine

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  *this post was prompted by a reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/7eqno4/jehovahs_witnesses_promote_truth_by_verifying/.

  so.. the org makes the claim that.

  "anyone who reads our publications or views our videos can be confident that the facts were thoroughly researched and are accurate.".

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  OneEyedJoe

  Considering that this particular hoax seems to have been fairly widespread, I think a reasonable argument could be made that they could well have done their full due diligence and still have published it as they did. This is certainly not the case with a great many of their deceptions, though, wherein they either purposely or thoughtlessly misquote or misatribute sources to forward whatever their current goal is.
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  52

  Are Beards becoming more acceptable due to decline in membership?

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i noticed a young brother with a beard being given more privelages within our hall.

  when he first grew his beard, he lost his privelages.

  but more and more recently he has been helping out a lot more.. the cobe is old school and a stickler for rules, but with the hall becoming more empty these days, and the need for young brothers, he seems to have relaxed on this particular watchtower/man made rule.

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  OneEyedJoe

  About 10 months ago my brother (this is in Texas, USA) reported to me that he'd seen someone reading the watchtower with a beard in another congregation, but it still wasn't allowed in his congregation. He was sure hoping that it would come to his congregation. I suggested that he just grow a beard if he wanted to, and he started reciting cult nonsense about wanting to help the flock and if he couldn't do that with a beard it wouldn't be worth it, blah blah blah. I further suggested that if anyone prevented him from helping due to his beard it was them hurting the flock not him failing to help. Predictably, this was dismissed without any real rebuttal.

  In any event, I do think practicality is winning out slowly - there's a lot of men that want to wear a beard, and beards are undergoing something of a resurgence these days. They're either valuing their personal expression above a bunch of drudgery sold as "privileges" (and if so, it's a shock it's taken so long...) or they're realizing that the shortage of men that care to do the drudgery puts them in a position of power as such a man and they're negotiating perks.
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  15

  WTBTS and the CCJW ?

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  apparently they made this new corporation called the christian congregation of jehovah’s witnesses in the year 2001. this is the religious side of the cult and wtbts is the printing side and probably the money side.

  since the gb think they are of the ccjw and have even stated their non affiliation with the wt is their a way that jws can use this to their advantage, maybe during a jc etc.?

  i for example was baptized before 2000 so with the new corporation formed and the gb going to that side what could be argued during a jc?

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  OneEyedJoe

  You can argue whatever you want in a JC, but if you submit yourself to a JC then you're submitting yourself to playing by their rules and those are subject to change at their whim. There's an absolute 0% chance that you can go in and admit to apostasy and have them ready to DF you until you start arguing about nuances of corporation structure. If you're saying that you're not beholden to CCJW because it didn't exist when you were baptized they'll just consider it a dissassociation - either way the announcement is the same and everyone will know that you "are no longer one of jehovahs witnesses."