Posts by OneEyedJoe

131

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?

by jukief in

by evolution or by creation?

"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".

OneEyedJoe

Darwin's, now infamous, "absurd in the highest degree" quote was the one that did it for me. The creation book used that quote (where he was using a rhetorical device to set up his explanation of how the eye could have evolved) to claim that Darwin acknowledged that the eye couldn't have been formed by an evolutionary process, but what did it for me was their statement right after the misquote - they asked "Has this problem been solved today?" and provided the unqualified answer "No." It was literally solved in the paragraph immediately following their out-of-context quote, by Darwin himself. Up to that point I was aware of a lot of things (like the 607 issue) that I could at least see their side of it being maybe sorta plausible - maybe satan had some grand conspiracy to falsify evidence or something - but in this case it was just blatant dishonesty that could not possibly be forgiven as a mistake. Once I knew that they were willing to lie in their literature, I knew they had done it time and again.

131

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?

by jukief in

by evolution or by creation?

"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".

OneEyedJoe

Thanks, this made me happy. Given that it was the indefensible misquotes and associated outright lies in the creation book that finally broke the cult spell for me, I rather enjoyed this.

27

Satan is "bullying" you through family

by neat blue dog in

just thought i'd share this ridiculous picture from a recent watchtower.

in recent years, the word bullying has been thrown around a lot, and often misused by instigators and subtle bullies themselves.

in this picture we learn that your loving family who wants to continue sharing a family tradition with you, who hands you a beautifully wrapped present with a smile on their face, is in fact bullying you.

OneEyedJoe

It's all very orweilian. Every word is redefined to be it's opposite:

The masters are the "slave" (FDS)

Being "spiritual" means giving materially and with physical acts of devotion.

Kicking someone out on the street and thinking of them as if they have been killed by god is a "loving arrangement"

"The truth" is all lies

"The truth will set you free" - it frees you from being able to do whatever you want and live with the consequences...

It's not brainwashing, it's having your mind cleansed of impure thought

And now, it's not a genuine desire to share happy family traditions and give generously, it's bullying.

27

Solicitors Appontment Tomorrow - Advice Appreciated

by pale.emperor in

following up on this thread: https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5012900121935872/am-overreacting-here?page=3#!#5179106934128640.

im seeing my solicitor tomorrow to see about getting an order in place making sure any contact my daughter has with my jw family goes through me and not my ex-wife.. explained the situation briefly to the lawyer, she was asking more and more about why should i be concerned if a jw had access to my child.. i mentioned the blood issue, the shunning, the inappropriate pictures of armageddon in books/mags etc.

do you think i should bring in watchtower literature to show them what i mean?

OneEyedJoe

Along with the negative material meant directly for child consumption, I'd bring the bit where it says apostates are "mentally diseased" and anything you can find where it suggests that apostates are evil, influenced by satan, etc. I think the likelihood that they will interfere with your child and try to poison her attitudes against you with religious dogma would make your concerns extremely relatable.

42

I HATE JW funerals

by jws in

jw
friends

jw funeral last night.

it was about half an hour from start to finish.

they opened with basic facts about the person.

OneEyedJoe

Yeah...it's the issues you mention that makes me pretty sure I'll never go to a JW funeral service. It's not about the deceased, and it's not about those who are mourning them.

You also correctly point out that the JW system puts zero focus on actually comforting mourners or helping them to grieve in a healthy way. It's my theory that this is also effectively helps the cult by keeping people perpetually in a state of having not really dealt with the loss of loved ones that have passed. They are continually held in the state of thinking they may see these people "the day after tomorrow" when armageddon comes (they even had videos at the convention in 2014 that reinforced the idea that these folks would be back almost suddenly) so they never come to terms with the loss. The loss becomes part of the emotional framework of the cult - it's another link in the chains that keep them locked in the cul.

9

New Life Story From Active JW On AvoidJW

by AverageJoe1 in

just came across this a few minutes ago:.

http://avoidjw.org/en/true-stories/pimo/.

it’s just been posted and is quite lengthy but it makes a change to read something from a reasonable jw!

OneEyedJoe

I can relate a lot to his thinking when I look back to myself when I was in. Just give him a few years pretending (and maybe the end of an otherwise happy marriage) and he'll probably have a slight change in opinion about some apostates' use of vulgarity when expressing displeasure with the cult....

11

Since the Borg is so interested in money why not do the following to keep and gain new members:

by Sour Grapes in

make the taking of blood transfusion a conscience matter since the bible forbids just the eating of blood.. have youth programs for the congregations like basketball teams, baseball teams, etc.. still not allow the celebration of christmas and easter because of the pagan origins, but allow birthdays, mother and father day celebrations.

the cart people currently love baby showers to celebrate the birth of a baby but then they can't celebrate the birth date of the same baby one year later.. only have the best speakers give the talks on sundays.

too many monotone, just read the outline speakers now.. drop the members giving talks during the clam meetings.. allow the jdubs to count time to visit the sick, help the elderly with chores, to visit members in nursing homes.. not have meetings for service on saturday mornings.

OneEyedJoe

My suggestions would increase membership and donations

Would they? I can see your train of thought, but the reality is that people switch religions more or less at random. If they leave the religion they were raised in, they typically end up in a new one by convenience or based on the community that happens to have formed around that religion in their locality. The only exception to this is those that shed their religion altogether, which makes up a disproportionately large destination for people that are changing religion from how they were raised.

At best these changes would make an impact over a very long term basis, but in the short term they'd lose much of what helps them retain membership, and that could potentially kill them off before they had a chance to reap rewards from the changed policies.

11

Since the Borg is so interested in money why not do the following to keep and gain new members:

by Sour Grapes in

make the taking of blood transfusion a conscience matter since the bible forbids just the eating of blood.. have youth programs for the congregations like basketball teams, baseball teams, etc.. still not allow the celebration of christmas and easter because of the pagan origins, but allow birthdays, mother and father day celebrations.

the cart people currently love baby showers to celebrate the birth of a baby but then they can't celebrate the birth date of the same baby one year later.. only have the best speakers give the talks on sundays.

too many monotone, just read the outline speakers now.. drop the members giving talks during the clam meetings.. allow the jdubs to count time to visit the sick, help the elderly with chores, to visit members in nursing homes.. not have meetings for service on saturday mornings.

OneEyedJoe

The reason why not, IMO, is by and large that it's a cult that relies on control for retention of membership. My thoughts:

Make the taking of blood transfusion a conscience matter since the Bible forbids just the eating of blood.

The blood policy actually has an enormously useful function for the cult. They've ritualized signing away your life in service to the cult. This is a huge hindrance to thinking clearly about the cult - if you have doubts, why would you risk your life in that way? This is the sort of cognitive dissonance that motivates people to quell their doubts and react with strong certainty that the cult is true. In my case this effect was so strong that even after I'd decided beyond a shadow of a doubt that I had been raised in a cult, it still took me a week or two to actually throw away my blood card.

Have youth programs for the congregations like basketball teams, baseball teams, etc.

It seems that they're moving towards in this direction (with the caleb and sofia stuff, etc), but I'd say that there's a couple problems that keep them from fully doing this. If they have programs specific to children, many places require that those administering it go through background checks or become licensed somehow, and that is likely viewed by the leadership as an unwanted intrusion at best, and at works a big risk of revealing to the R/F of certain congregations that they have pedophiles in their midst when someone gets rejected on the basis of a background check or something similar.

Still not allow the celebration of Christmas and Easter because of the pagan origins, but allow birthdays, mother and father day celebrations. The Cart People currently love baby showers to celebrate the birth of a baby but then they can't celebrate the birth date of the same baby one year later.

The forbidding of holidays/birthdays/thanksgiving/etc also functions as a means to isolate members from society at large. It reinforces the us/them dichotomy, which is critical for retention of members because it makes leaving too scary to even consider.

Only have the best speakers give the talks on Sundays. Too many monotone, just read the outline speakers now.

They don't have enough skilled speakers. They've historically tried to improve speaking skills of the R/F and have been increasing video usage lately as a way of addressing this, though.

Drop the members giving talks during the CLAM meetings.

Personal testimonials and forcing people to prepare and participate goes a long way to increasing the investment people feel in the cult. The more invested someone has been in the past, the less likely it is that they'll allow themselves to consider the idea that it may have been a bad investment.

Allow the JDubs to count time to visit the sick, help the elderly with chores, to visit members in nursing homes.

I can somewhat see this. However, I think the ministry is pushed because it reinforces the us/them dichotomy. There's never a time when a JW feels more separate from society than when they're walking up and down a street on saturday in formal clothes. As with birthdays, etc, this helps to make the act of leaving and going into an unfriendly/unfamiliar world unthinkable.

Not have meetings for service on Saturday mornings. We all need some time on the weekend to chill or just sleep in with no FOG (fear, obligation, guilt)

All cults keep people as busy as possible. Idle time allows people to think things over. See also previous comments about investment. There's also a need for social pressure to get people to go out on saturday - see above about ministry reinforcing the us/them dichotomy.

Only shun those who are disfellowshipped if they are known to be immoral or if they openly engage in opposition to the Borg.

This would cede a huge power that the cult has - by maintaining the mystery around why someone is DFed and announcing it the same way every time (and openly saying that most of the time it's unrepentant sexual immorality) they make it possible to boot anyone for any reason if they threaten the cult's interests. Also, if they stop shunning apostates, the cult would practically evaporate in the span of a few years.

Allow those who just want to stop being a JDub to just walk away and be treated as if they never were a Trolley Guard.

See above.

Drop the 1914 doctrine as nulite and stop talking about the end being just around the corner.

It seems like they're working on it, they just don't want to do it too suddenly.

Encourage going college since in the future the graduates will have higher paying jobs for more contributions.

A smaller number (because college increases the odds of people leaving, and one person leaving increases the odds of other people leaving) of more prosperous members doesn't seem to interest them. They also make a fair amount of money off people donating their time and efforts, which would likely dry up if JWs start valuing their time more (which they would if they get paid more). This is also a long-term strategy and it seems that the cult plans more for the short-term (as is the natural result of believing armageddon is imminent) and it also seems that they're in a bit of a short-term crunch for money. Encouraging kids to go to college would almost certainly result in a short-term drop in contributions due to the cost of schooling.

Stop the nonsense of 99.9% of the world's population being destroyed and only the Cart People walking thru the smoke and rubble into a paradise.

Fear is a powerful motivator. Without the fear of being murdered by the isralite god of war, many would be less wary about exploring any doubts about the doctrine that they might have.

20

What’s the most effective way to wake the largest amount of JW’s up?

by Farmer Jim1 in

jw
friends

what can one person do to save as many people as possible from this organisation?.

youtube videos?.

mail shots?.

OneEyedJoe

What each person's breaking point turns out to be is highly personal. I think this is because the system is so intrinsically built up such that public questioning and exploration of doubts is completely forbidden, it results in everyone's doubts being isolated from each other, and since they develop in isolation there can be a enormous amount of variation. What works for one person won't even phase another. That's why it's important to have lots of people doing lots of different things to try to wake people up.

That said, I do think that there are methods that are almost certainly not helpful to anyone, or at the very least they reinforce the cult beliefs in more JWs than they actually have a chance of waking up. Aggressive protesting of conventions or extremely confrontational encounters at carts or at the door are likely among these, in my opinion.

51

Please Switch Off Your Critical Thinking

by pale.emperor in

i have an uneasy feeling inside that something is coming this year or the next.

perhaps a new big announcement that turns jwdom on it's head.. we've seen the statement in the watchtower november 15th, 2013 which said:.

watchtower november 15th, 2013 - page 20, paragraph 17.. .

OneEyedJoe

I don't expect that there will be any huge changes (though I guess we could argue over what constitutes a huge change....we've seen big changes in the last several years, but I don't think anything has been on the order of what the OP is talking about) To me their pattern seems to be big talk and then small actions - they prep people with sweeping statements like that and then the changes are relatively small. The reaction they seem to aim for is something like "Oh they don't want us to kill ourselves ala jonestown, they just want us to sell a kingdom hall and merge a few congregations, I was silly to have even worried about it."

The no-blood policy is even like this in a lot of ways - granted tens of thousands have died from it, but for most JWs it's a big ask that never actually comes to fruition. Then they're more likely to yield on smaller things since they've already implicitly yielded on something big (even if they never actually have to act in most cases).

The "adjust your thinking" type phrases have been around forever in the cult...that's standard cult fare - putting on the new personality, training your conscience, model yourself after Jesus (and the GB/CO/pioneers) etc etc.