Definitely report back if you use the scriptures to show why you were stumbled by their actions. I may be taking a similar route at some point and would like to be as prepared as possible for the potential responses.
OneEyedJoe
JoinedPosts by OneEyedJoe
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90
PEER PRESSURE!!! I gave in to Pioneering during August...I feel dirty...
by stuckinarut2 inok, i'll admit it...i am weak.... as everyone knows, the pressure to "pioneer" during "the most momentous, awesome, amazing, centenary anniversay of jesus invisble kigdom rule, & distribute tracts about a dodgy website" campaign is very strong at the moment.... also, many will have read my threads about the extreme views and expectations in our cong for "all appointed men to pioneer" etc..... every elder and ms and their families have been announced as pioneering....i mean everyone's name was read out except mine..... i was not going to do it, as i do not believe anyone should be forced...(and of course its the last thing on earth i would rather do anyway since learning ttatt).
but i am not quite ready to make the break yet, so i realised that i would stand out more if i didnt put in a form to pioneer.
yes it would make me more conspicious, and make fading harder to do...it would bring more heat on me if i didnt pioneer.. so i gave in and submitted a form.... now, of course, i'm only going to make sure i'm seen at the key field service groups etc...but then go and do something more interesting...like count blades of grass..... ahh....i feel hypocritical to myself now......
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Stagnant JW growth at international convention
by kneehighmiah inso at the international convention 235 were baptized.
the attendance was 34k.
that's resents less than 1% its about .6%.
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OneEyedJoe
TheOldHippie - Thanks!
Phizzy - My guess is that they're counting the increase of the year-over-year increase in average publishers. The explanation for the continued (reported) growth could be one or both of the following:
1. There's much more growth in 3rd world countries than we see in US/UK. It's possible (likely even) that the JW population in 1st world countries is declining, and the 3rd world countries are making up for it.
2. They've got two sets of books, and are fudging the numbers that they report to the R/F.
I think it's difficult to argue that the former isn't taking place, and the latter wouldn't surprise me one bit - it would just be a drop in the bucket of lies they've told.
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PEER PRESSURE!!! I gave in to Pioneering during August...I feel dirty...
by stuckinarut2 inok, i'll admit it...i am weak.... as everyone knows, the pressure to "pioneer" during "the most momentous, awesome, amazing, centenary anniversay of jesus invisble kigdom rule, & distribute tracts about a dodgy website" campaign is very strong at the moment.... also, many will have read my threads about the extreme views and expectations in our cong for "all appointed men to pioneer" etc..... every elder and ms and their families have been announced as pioneering....i mean everyone's name was read out except mine..... i was not going to do it, as i do not believe anyone should be forced...(and of course its the last thing on earth i would rather do anyway since learning ttatt).
but i am not quite ready to make the break yet, so i realised that i would stand out more if i didnt put in a form to pioneer.
yes it would make me more conspicious, and make fading harder to do...it would bring more heat on me if i didnt pioneer.. so i gave in and submitted a form.... now, of course, i'm only going to make sure i'm seen at the key field service groups etc...but then go and do something more interesting...like count blades of grass..... ahh....i feel hypocritical to myself now......
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OneEyedJoe
You might be able to use this to your advantage. Don't get the 30 hours, then noticably cut back your meeting attendance/commenting/service time starting in september. When confronted about it, say that you were stumbled by all the peer pressure to pioneer. You had prayerfully considered your circumstances, as well as applicable scriptures (Matt. 5:33,34; James 5:12; Numbers 30:2; Deut. 23:21; Ecclesiastes 5:4) and had determined that it would be best not to commit to something that you would be unable to carry out. Then, the oppressive peer pressure upon you made you violate your conscience, and eventually sin against Jehovah in being unable to carry out your promise to him.
You could even use it as an excuse to step down as an MS, because you now feel like a hypocrit, and you feel that you no longer qualify after sinning in such a serious way, allowing yourself to make a vow to Jehovah that you knew in advance that you would not be able to perform.
Good luck, buddy.
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Delete Personal Messages
by Maranatha ini've never been on a website that doesn't allow you to delete your own personal messages.
why can we not do that on this site?
what are your motives in keeping our personal messages?
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OneEyedJoe
Maranatha -
I don't think any atheists hate god the way you think we do. We certainly hate many of the negative things that have occurred due to the belief in a god (religious cults, genocide, etc). Certainly there'd be bad people with and without god, but taking away one more excuse to practice racism, sexism, homophobia, and all manner of other unfounded predjudices can't possibly be anything but beneficial. All that being said, we don't "hate god" any more than we hate vampires.
As for our apparent desire to turn people away from god, I imagine that my PM to you has a part in this statement. I've never made an effort to turn anyone away from god. You asked me some questions, and I answered them honestly with no other motive other than a commitment to honesty and truth. I appologize if my commitment to truth and honesty is offensive to you, but I think you may need to practice the advice of the bible and be a little slower to judgement.
I can see how you'd see certain conversations between like-minded atheists as patting each other on the back, but can you say that it's any different than what christians do when they get together to pat themselves on the back when discussing their ministry or their spirituality or bible study or whatever?
All this is on top of your committing the most common mistake of theists - assuming that atheism is in any way, shape, form or fashion a religion. It is a religion in exactly the same way that the vaccuum of space is a gas, off is a TV channel, abstinence a sexual position, transparent a color.
Please remember to exhibit the christian qualities of kindness and love, and allow others to enjoy the freedom of thought, expression and belief (or lack thereof) that I'm certain that you cherish dearly.
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BOE 2014-07-11 Use of ministerial servants where the number of elders is limited
by WatchTower87 into all bodies of elders.
the congregation secretary should arrange for this letter to be retained in the congregation permanent file of policy letters.
he may also wish to update the congregation copy of the index to lettersfor bodies of elders (s-22) at this time as well.
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OneEyedJoe
A while back the elders in my congregation had a special meeting one saturday and insisted that all males in the congregation attend. Basically it turned out to be about a half hour of attempting to guilt-trip us into "stepping up" and "reaching out" in the congregation. All the elders in the congregation are over 50, several in their 80s.
The funny thing is, I haven't heard of a single MS appointment since, and that was at least a year ago. Two elders also sat me down after a meeting to try and get me to get more service time and comment more so that I could be an MS. Even before I was awake, I knew that's not something I was ever going to do.
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CO position going away
by OwnAccord inso i heard this on another site just throwing it out there because there's been talk about it here.
i'm sorry i can't answer any questions i'm just relaying the information.. the branch is considering replacing all circuit overseers with 3 brothers per circuit to oversee needs.
24 congregations per circuit with 1 brother each assigned to 8 congregations each on a yearly rotation.
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OneEyedJoe
toweragent - the change in appointment/deletion of elders was almost certainly a response to the candice conti case, and is probably just a stop-gap measure to prevent future lawsuits (at least, prevent lawsuits against the org). I'd bet that the authority to appoint/delete elders would go to the 3 brothers assigned to the circuit as a committee, or just to the brother assigned to the congregation in question. There's no reason for them to take over with that anyway, it's not like the GB was actually getting holy spirit when they rubber-stamped the appointments.
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An Unexpected 2 Hour Anti-Leads to an Unexpected Return Visit
by truth_b_known ini just spent 30 minutes writing this story and lost it all before i hit submit.
i'll try to be brief.. last night a former co-worker of my wife's called saying he was on his way to the house to drop off a job he would like her to do.
we haven't seen him in over 8 years.
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OneEyedJoe
LongHairGal - the only way to be an "average JW" is to be blissfully unaware of any of TTATT. Once you know about it, you're no longer an "average JW." That's when you become a fader (or straight up DA)
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Stagnant JW growth at international convention
by kneehighmiah inso at the international convention 235 were baptized.
the attendance was 34k.
that's resents less than 1% its about .6%.
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OneEyedJoe
88JM - great point, thanks. In the US, the mortality rate is about 0.8%, which would effectively wipe out any increase based on my math above, even before accounting for faders, so a decrease of a half to one percent anually seems to be pretty realistic. Also, I'd be willing to bet that the mortality rate among JWs is considerably higher than the general populace due to their reduced income (and therefore reduced access to good healthcare) and the fact that most kids eventually leave means that those left are well above average age. I've also noticed that obesity and other health problems is much more rampant among JWs, all of which would push up mortality rate.
They won't be able to hide the decline much longer.
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CO position going away
by OwnAccord inso i heard this on another site just throwing it out there because there's been talk about it here.
i'm sorry i can't answer any questions i'm just relaying the information.. the branch is considering replacing all circuit overseers with 3 brothers per circuit to oversee needs.
24 congregations per circuit with 1 brother each assigned to 8 congregations each on a yearly rotation.
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OneEyedJoe
Yeah, but they don't really need as much direct control these days, since they've stripped all the congregations of their extra cash, set up monthly obligations for donations, and own the property if the congregation is disolved (which they have the power to do). They're holding all the cards, so they don't need as much direct influence.
Plus, I would strongly doubt that the elders chosen for the new arrangement would be anything other than strong company men, so they'll keep the congregations in line just like the CO would. They'll just be paying their own way.
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Stagnant JW growth at international convention
by kneehighmiah inso at the international convention 235 were baptized.
the attendance was 34k.
that's resents less than 1% its about .6%.
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OneEyedJoe
Yep, similar numbers at my last convention and assembly (maybe a few more at the assembly, but not more than .6%). So, figuring .6% baptisms 3 times a year (probably generous, since there's usually more at the conventions) leaves you at about 1.8% anual growth. Then, when you account for the ~1% DFing rate, you're down to ~0.8% growth. Once you account for faders, which (based on the jwfacts stats article) seems to be somewhere between 0.5 and 1%, you're likely looking at a net decrease in membership in developed countries.