OneEyedJoe

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Posts by OneEyedJoe

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  26

  October 2014 Kingdom Ministry (KM - 10/2014 PDF)

  by WatchTower87 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  our kingdom ministry october 2014 .

  instruction: press the 'skip ad' button top right, you should then see the download screen more easily.

  no virus ;-).

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  OneEyedJoe

  Step 2 was 2012 if I remember correctly - 2011 being the peak of memorial attendance that has not yet been beaten.
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  3

  How good are we at spotting propaganda and logic fallacies outside the religion of the JWs?

  by cognisonance in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the book take back your life, recovering from cults and abusive relationships, i think it mentioned that many often jump from one cult (or abusive relationship) to another, not being able to see the tell-tale signs with foresight, only hindsight.

  therefore, i encourage everyone to take at least a cursory look at this report.

  what are your thoughts?.

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  OneEyedJoe

  well one thing seems certain. Whoever designed that flyer either has ADD or was designing for those who do. I gave up trying to read it through after the first page, it was just too much effort to follow the flow of text that jumped randomly around the page.

  As a rule, though, I'm pretty skeptical of anyone who wants me to sign up for something flaunting a free tshirt.
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  54

  Controversial Opinion: Why the web site campaign is actually brilliant

  by Apognophos in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there's a lot of talk right now about how stupid it is to have jws hand out leaflets with urls on them.

  "why go to someone's door to tell them they can visit a web site that lets them ask for someone to come to their door?

  " well, i'm sorry, but i have to weigh in with a contrary opinion here on how clever the society is.

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  OneEyedJoe

  jgnat - You're absolutely correct, they're not very smart about targeting potential converts, and I don't think they'll ever start doing any such targeting in a way that the average JW would be aware of. What they might eventually do (if new converts are actually what they want) is start buying google ads (or having the R/F buy them and let them count them as placements or something) that target obvious keywords like bible, jesus, god, etc. But the real target will be some other things, like targeting people dealing with drug addiction (or addiction in the family), or people getting out of break-ups, or those who've just lost someone in death, etc. Targeting people who are searching for help in an emotionally traumatic time would give them a chance to get a foothold when someone's critical thinking skills have been suspended and they're susceptible to love bombing.

  If they do this, I think they'll experience significant growth, at least in the near-term.

  They just have to be very careful how they implement it, because the average JW strongly believes that every person (regardless of mental state, etc) deserves to get a witness, so they can't make it too obvioius that they're targeting the vulnerable only. Though, now that I'm thinking about it, it's pretty common for them to relate experiences from the platform about a householder who's well known to be rude that finally comes around after the death of a loved one. Those experiences really took on a new meaning for me once I found out how cults usually recruit, and who is most vulnerable.
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  26

  October 2014 Kingdom Ministry (KM - 10/2014 PDF)

  by WatchTower87 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  our kingdom ministry october 2014 .

  instruction: press the 'skip ad' button top right, you should then see the download screen more easily.

  no virus ;-).

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  OneEyedJoe

  @Londo

  My comment would be, "The demonstration was effective because it dodged a question that can't actually be answered biblically"
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  54

  Controversial Opinion: Why the web site campaign is actually brilliant

  by Apognophos in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there's a lot of talk right now about how stupid it is to have jws hand out leaflets with urls on them.

  "why go to someone's door to tell them they can visit a web site that lets them ask for someone to come to their door?

  " well, i'm sorry, but i have to weigh in with a contrary opinion here on how clever the society is.

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  OneEyedJoe

  Yeah, i think the big thing that peole are going to find to be missing on jw.org is a comments section. Obviously it would be absolutely impossible to host a comments section because it would immediately be flooded with folks like us enlightening the R/F and any potential converts. Hopefully people will do a search for jw forum or something similar, which will take them right here.
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  46

  You should meet Brother Smart Engineer

  by garyneal in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.

  apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.

  at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.

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  OneEyedJoe

  Also you might look over this article on JWfacts:

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/questions-to-ask-a-jehovahs-witness.php

  that has some good questions to keep in mind that will stir up a little cognitive dissonance and make the engineer quite uncomfortable.

  While I was in the process of waking up, one of the things holding me back was that I knew a number of "smart" people that believed it, and I felt uncomfortable being pompous enough to think of myself as smarter than them. I read some papers on the topic of why smart people believe stupid things, and that was one step towards finally finding TTATT. Basically what it boils down to is that smart people, when in an emotionally trying state (could be short term - the death of a loved one for example - or long term - wife converted to being a JW, and it's difficult to deal with the rift it causes) smart people can sometimes suspend their critical thinking skills and allow a stupid idea to take hold. Once a stupid idea takes hold and the person starts to invest in it, they start to defend it from any conflicting information. The more they invest in it, the more they have to lose if its wrong and the more they'll defend the idea. In this state, conflicting information can actually serve to reinforce the false belief. What got me past that, was I made an agreement with myself that I was honestly searching for the truth, and would go wherever that lead me (fully expecting that it would lead me back to the JWs). Once I did that, it was the beginning of the end for my JW beliefs.

  If you can get a similar agreement from the engineer (especially if he already has a doubt or two) then you might be able to wake him up, but it won't happen all in one discussion. How fun would that be, though? Your wife brings Br. smart engineer over to convert you and you make an atheist out of him!
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  52

  how to survive a three day assembly?

  by purrpurr in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi i have to go to one of these soon.

  i find it difficult enough to sit through a meeting knowing what i now know.

  how to survive a whole three days???!!!

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  OneEyedJoe

  I went a couple months ago. I'm taller than those seats are designed for, so I have a pretty good excuse to leave and "streach my legs" periodically. I probably spent 80% of the time standing in one of the lobby areas and my wife didn't seem bothered by it at all. The stadium had wifi, so I was just on here or playing games or whatever the whole time.

  The time that I was at the seats, I made a game of noting the logical fallacies, scriptures out of context, and unfounded assertions that where endlessly employed by the speaker. That and try to read between the lines of what their saying, and "jokingly" point it out to my wife. For example, in the stupid drama, at one point one "brother" is seen buying a computer for an older sister. Assuming you're in for your spouse, you could point out that now they're implying that even the older ones should buy computers to log on to JW.org. Have a goal in mind and work towards it.

  Also, I found that being subtly negative about the convention in the weeks leading up to it helped poison the experience for my wife. By the third day she was complaining about how poorly it was managed, and how unloving many of the people there where. If you've never seen the "running of the bulls" at the door opening, you might suggest getting there before the doors open on Sunday (when it's the worst) for your spouse to witness the clear lack of love. Try to get relatively close to the doors, then walk calmly to find some seats while everyone stampedes past. That will make an impression for sure.

  I counted it a small victory that my wife didn't feel like going to meetings or in service (she was "spiritually burnt out") for 2 1/2 weeks after the convention. Instead of it being a refreshing experience it was a dull, hot, exhausting 3 days punctuated by JWs behaving no better than "worldly" people.
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  14

  Have you seen witnesses texting during meetings?

  by yogosans14 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was dragged to the hall last sunday and wendsday and this woman infront of me was using her phone for the study articles and when we were getting up to do a song i saw her quickly sending a text, which shocked me because i know they dont allow that.

  are the jws getting more and more leniant?.

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  OneEyedJoe

  I've seen people texting each other while both are in the meeting, sitting accross the hall. They've made a few announcements and local needs parts about it. Everytime they do, people will behave for about a week, then go back to usual.
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  66

  "We're calling on your neighbours to promote a website"

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wow, it's true - they don't call to 'promote god's kingdom' anymore but just their website!.

  we just had an old lady call and tell us that was exactly what they were doing and it has "lots of good things on their for children".

  yeah, right ... sparlock?.

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  OneEyedJoe

  Here's a fun case study:

  http://www.scientology.org/faq/scientology-and-other-practices/is-scientology-a-cult.html

  http://www.mormon.org/faq/mormon-church

  http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/are-jehovahs-witnesses-a-cult/

  All three start off by trying to re-define the word cult. The mormons take an interesting approach, though, by basically accepting that some people actually have good reason to call them a cult.
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  46

  You should meet Brother Smart Engineer

  by garyneal in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife, who now thinks i am not competent enough to discuss spiritual matters with the kids, thinks that i could really benefit from discussing matters of the bible with this nasa engineer who attends meetings at her kingdom hall.

  apparently, he is quite knowledgeable in the bible and has a good grasp of their doctrines.

  at least according to her as i never actually spoken with the man at length but i do know that he is an elder.

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  OneEyedJoe

  If you can avoid talking religion you might make a sorta-friend out of him, but know that he'll probably always be plotting how to convert you.

  If you get on religion, it will probably go one of two ways. He'll either listen to your questions and tell you he doesn't know and he'll do research (in JW literature, of course) and get back to you. In this case you'll probably never discuss relgion again, since he won't be able to actually answer most of your questions. The other possibility is that he'll just steamroll right over you with lots of logical fallacies and such. If he's a typical engineer, though, it'll probably be more of the former rather than the latter.