Posts by OneEyedJoe

16

Today's public talk: shameless indoctrination

by OneEyedJoe in

today's talk was really somethin'.

so much so that i felt compelled to post this during the wt study.... i didn't pay attention to the theme, but where i to title the talk it would be "logical fallacy, scripture out of context, and phobia indoctrination: a case study in cult indoctrination.".

that's certainly a more honest title than whatever they gave, i'm sure.. it starts out by saying that sometimes people are skeptical about things they're told, and feel compelled to look for evidence of the claims.

OneEyedJoe

You're absolutely right. I guess writing up my thoughts on the "parroted s***" is my way of cleaning it off.

16

Today's public talk: shameless indoctrination

by OneEyedJoe in

today's talk was really somethin'.

so much so that i felt compelled to post this during the wt study.... i didn't pay attention to the theme, but where i to title the talk it would be "logical fallacy, scripture out of context, and phobia indoctrination: a case study in cult indoctrination.".

that's certainly a more honest title than whatever they gave, i'm sure.. it starts out by saying that sometimes people are skeptical about things they're told, and feel compelled to look for evidence of the claims.

OneEyedJoe

DD the only reason I'm still going is for my wife. I'd be fine if my family summed me, and I don't have many friends in, but I feel like I owe her as much to try to make something like a graceful exit. I think I've given up trying to wake her up before I leave, but I want her to at least have some understanding of why I'm leaving.

This sort of talk (really, just about every talk) always used to irritate me as I was always aware of the fallacy and fear mongering, but now that the "it's for a good reason" justification is out of my head, I just can't stand it.

16

Today's public talk: shameless indoctrination

by OneEyedJoe in

today's talk was really somethin'.

so much so that i felt compelled to post this during the wt study.... i didn't pay attention to the theme, but where i to title the talk it would be "logical fallacy, scripture out of context, and phobia indoctrination: a case study in cult indoctrination.".

that's certainly a more honest title than whatever they gave, i'm sure.. it starts out by saying that sometimes people are skeptical about things they're told, and feel compelled to look for evidence of the claims.

OneEyedJoe

Today's talk was really somethin'. So much so that I felt compelled to post this during the WT study...

I didn't pay attention to the theme, but where I to title the talk it would be "Logical fallacy, scripture out of context, and phobia indoctrination: a case study in cult indoctrination.". That's certainly a more honest title than whatever they gave, I'm sure.

It starts out by saying that sometimes people are skeptical about things they're told, and feel compelled to look for evidence of the claims. Already I'm thinking "oh, this is gonna be good." The example was given of someone claiming that a strawberry wasn't technically a berry, but bananas are, the speaker says "that may sound hard to believe." He then goes on to describe in generic terms the concept of a literal Satan as a personal entity, saying that even some theologians endorse the view that Satan is just a metaphors for evil. His proof that Satan is a literal person was to quote a few scriptures, all of which where some variation of "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.". The fun part was that in each case, if you replaced "Satan" with "evil" the scripture still made sense, and sometimes it made more sense that the scripture was using the devil as a metaphors for human tendency towards evil. He then asserted that if you believed in the idea of Satan being a metaphor for evil, you'd have to throw out all the teachings of Jesus, the apostles and a few others because they said he was a person (even though that wasn't necessarily the case). I've never heard such a compelling argument to believe that Satan isnt a real person! He sums up this topic by asserting (in what's known as an appeal to consequences) that without a personal entity of Satan, you have no satisfying answers for such evil as rape, murder warfare, etc. Not to mention the fact that as an atheist, I've found quite satisfying answers to the world's conditions.

Next up he goes into a long tirade about pop music, TV shows, the occult, etc. (BTW, we're now 15-20 minutes in and no scriptures read from the bible) on the topic of the occult, he asks if we may watch movies or TV shows featuring the occult and say that it doesn't affect you because you only see it as a story of fiction. Then he directs us to the first scripture of the day: 2 Corinthians 11:3, which read in the context of his talk seems to be a word of caution about how sneaky Satan is and warning not to be tempted by him. The problem is, that if you read the next verse, it is clearly a warning against being tempted by others who preach a version of Jesus that doesn't match what paul preached. Now, who do we know of that preaches a version oof Jesus that's not supported by scripture? Just saying...

He closes with some strong phobia indoctrination. He asks us to imagine (a common technique used to bypass critical thinking) being in a storm cellar while an EF-5 tornado rages outside. He asks, "are you tempted to open the hatch and peak outside to see if it's really as dangerous as you're told?" My thought was that of I was born in the cellar, and never heard any wind raging outside, yeah I might be tempted to look out. Not to see if the storm was as dangerous as I was told, but to see if it even existed. You probably know where he was going - we're safe in "the organization" and shouldn't be tempted by anything in the world, no matter how innocent it may seem. So, if you leave the organization (or so much as watch an episode of the walking dead), its the same as walking into a tornado.

I really need to get out of this cult. I can't stand listening to this BS much longer.

63

Your "Things That Make You Go Hmmm?" List

by FlyingHighNow in

jw
friends

i'll wager that the number is close to 100 percent.

what number?

the number of jws who have lists--lists of things that make them go hmmm or even wha'???

OneEyedJoe

Fernando, your list makes me feel better about my list. Its really amazing how much you can be willing to overlook while under the undue influence of a cult.

63

Your "Things That Make You Go Hmmm?" List

by FlyingHighNow in

jw
friends

i'll wager that the number is close to 100 percent.

what number?

the number of jws who have lists--lists of things that make them go hmmm or even wha'???

OneEyedJoe

The change to the study watchtower was a big one for me too, I can't believe I left that of my list.

I remember thinking about a year prior to their fling the public vs private WT that the study articles often contained stuff that would be offensive to non-jws that we should probably not be giving that stuff to people the first time we meet them. I mean how should we expect people to react if we give then a magazine that contains specific condemnation of their religion? Then not long after that I read an article that analyzed the Catholic church through the lends of it being a religion of secrets, where theres layers of of doctrine that only get revealed as you get deeper in. A comparison was made to Scientology wherein people start out thinking it's just some sorta spiritual thing, but once they're sucked in they're told of aliens and furnished souls possessing humans etc. At first, I read the article as confirmation that Catholics didn't know anything about the Bible and it was all about tradition, but then I started to see the parallels. When they started the study/public WT thing, it became a lot stronger.

63

Your "Things That Make You Go Hmmm?" List

by FlyingHighNow in

jw
friends

i'll wager that the number is close to 100 percent.

what number?

the number of jws who have lists--lists of things that make them go hmmm or even wha'???

OneEyedJoe

This is timely for me, I was thinking of making the very same thread a couple hours ago.

My list in no particular order:

Stance on higher education

WWI starting early (I.e. before the last days were supposed to start in Oct.)

The switch from 1914=Armageddon to 1914=last days made after nothing happened.

What's all this I hear in hushed tones about 1975?

If we're supposed to be gathering together "all the more so as [we] behold the day drawing near" why are meetings/conventions/assemblies being shortened or eliminated?

Similar confusion on the reduction in the requirement for pioneers

They'd talk about how Satan can influence us through the lyrics of worldly songs one week, then go on and on about how important it is to sing along at the meetings the next.

Apostate paranoia (surely if they deal in half truths and lies, they could easily be shown to be wrong)

DFing (my hard to silence doubt was "that seems like something a cult would do... But I guess it's scriptural so it must be for a good reason")

The whole system of rules around dating always seemed designed to lead to kids getting married before they're really ready, and that certainly seemed to be the end result.

While I accepted the blood ban the exceptions (vaccines and later fractions) never made sense. That being so, I was still glad to take advantage of the exceptions if needed.

The fact that I'd practically have to be lobotomized to enjoy paradise, as essentially all of my hobbies and interests rely on stuff that's never been depicted in the pictures of it. Not to mention the whole being vegan thing...

When they added credit/debit machines at the assemblies and conventions after my entire youth was spent listening to them rail against churches in Christendom for having ATMs in the lobby.

The "running of the bulls" and many other arrangements around the conventions and assemblies seemed to lack the love that was supposed to be characteristic of true Christians.

Counting and printing service time and announcing pioneers seemed to go against the counsel to not let your left hand know what the right is doing

The impossibility of the Noah's ark story

Evidence that humans didn't originate 6000 years ago in the area they identified as the garden of Eden

There never seemed to be any prophesies that were fully understood before their fulfillment

The violence in the OT never sat well

I think I could keep going, but the longer this list gets the more embarrassing it is that it took me so long to wake up.

29

11-15 WT- Drinking before meetings

by Absalom in

to be holy, we must weigh the scriptures carefully and do what god asks of us.

consider aarons sons nadab and abihu, who were executed for offering unauthorized fire, perhaps while inebriated.

(lev.

OneEyedJoe

You and me both, DD

There needs to be a scotch emoticon.

44

Fresh Newcomer

by Yondaime in

hi guys, my name is yondaime,.

my will to remain in this relgious sect is fading, i'm about to be a freshman(just turned 18) in college.

, i have seen so many terrible things happen to good people in this cult and i'm sick of it!

OneEyedJoe

Welcome! You're very lucky to be learning TTATT at a relatively young age. You've got your whole life ahead of you! Go, learn, and come up with your own meaning in life. You don't need 7 geezers in NY to tell you what the purpose of your life should be.

I wish you nothing but the best in your journey!

20

Are we nitpicking???

by jam in

jw's walk like this, they eat this way, they look like this,.

they have sex this way (lol), they talk this way and etc.. are we excessively concerned with or critical of inconsequential.

details??.

OneEyedJoe

It definitely plays into the WTS description of an apostate being obsessed with debates about words (formerly mentally diseased) but I think it's just that we've bottled up all of our tiny complaints for so long that once the floodgates open, everything flows fourth.

9

Why the Nov. 2014 Study WT could be a good thing

by Apognophos in

hey guys.

i am seeing a lot of flak on the forum over this study wt, and rightly so, as it's rather creepy.

but i'd like to suggest an alternate way of looking at this upcoming series of articles -- as an opportunity.

OneEyedJoe

Yeah...I'm trying to think of what to say about these articles. I think I've given up on trying to get my wife to wake up before I begin my fade, but I'd like to be able to provide my wife with articulable reasons for my leaving and this would be a good opportunity.

I'm open to suggestions from the vastly more clever folks here.