Posts by OneEyedJoe

56

Question for atheists and nonbelievers

by pressman in

i profess to teach the truth to you all and get you to all to think and believe.

believing in christ through his words and not through evil religious cults, like hoj and jw, can and will save you.

do you all realize that every time you are victorious and receive something of value through your hard work and sweat, it was our holy god who blessed you.

OneEyedJoe

Eh, I'm not going to read all that when it starts out as arrogant as it did, so I apologize if my answer misses the point or doesn't acknowledge some caveat in the word fort you built.

I'm not inclined to worship god because I see absolutely no evidence for the existence of any god-like entity, and plenty evidence that no such entity exists. Also, if any such entity existed, he's a total asshole and deserves no worship.

In the end, though, you seem to completely misunderstand the issues in play for the typical rational atheist. Sure, there are people who are atheist because it's convenient and they don't care, but there are also many who arrived there after considerable thought and even fought against it. The issue isn't whether or not I want to serve a loving god that would take care of all my needs and provide me with infinite happiness in the future if only I adhere to a few rules. The issue is whether or not such a god exists. Sadly, he doesn't.

91

Setback

by EdenOne in

i saw this coming since my mother-in-law's funeral .... the congregation's "love-bombing" over my wife had its impact.

i watched her drawing closer and closer to her friends in the congregation.

then she decided she would attend the memorial.

OneEyedJoe

This is one excellent point. I need to work on overcoming my depressive mood and bitterness and get back on track to my music composing and to make new friends. A bit hard for me, because deep inside, I'm a bit of an introvert, but it's doable.

I'm right there with ya. I'm on the extreme end of the introvert spectrum, and it's difficult for me because my wife has always been my tie to a social life. I've started making some friends at work lately though and I'm realizing that it's much easier than expected and certainly more rewarding than any JW friendship I've had. Keep it up and you'll get there.

Your first impulse would be to be warm, which is fine when the cult does turn cold. But my point is that by being cold it causes her to think twice about taking you for granted, giving her insecurity that you might not always be around and that her actions have consequences.
And it appears to me that those are precisely the things that she needs to think twice about right now.

Hopefully this doesn't come off argumentative, because I don't want to derail this thread from being about supporting Eden, but I can't help but think that being cold will only drive her further in. Making her insecure about the marriage could easily drive her to seek security elsewhere, and she's going to go to the cult for that.

I totally agree, though, that she needs to know that her actions have consequences, but in my experience simply articulating the consequences (i.e. the pain she's inflicting on her loving husband) can be pretty powerful. At the very least it might draw out a conversation which might result in progress, instead of tit-for-tatt passive-aggressive fighting that will only further drive her away. Easier said than done, though, to be sure.

91

Setback

by EdenOne in

i saw this coming since my mother-in-law's funeral .... the congregation's "love-bombing" over my wife had its impact.

i watched her drawing closer and closer to her friends in the congregation.

then she decided she would attend the memorial.

OneEyedJoe

I always get annoyed when people come here and apologize for venting. Makes me feel like I'm selfish because the thought doesn't usually cross my mind. It's a big part of why most of us are here, I suspect. So don't do it! haha.

You're in a tough spot to be sure. Don't let it dishearten you too much though. It's still early and time is on your side, no matter how it may seem. If she's going back without you, she's of zero status in the cult and the women will soon lose interest in her because she won't fit in to the couple's things and there's always that elephant in the room when she's around and it's just not the easy perfect situation that JWs prefer. They're not real friends, so if there's something that makes it hard they'll eventually drop off.

She's also mourning the loss of her mother, and the pull from the possibility (however remote) that they're right and they're the only way she gets to see her mother again is powerful. Maybe you can attack it from that angle, and help her remember the happy times with her mother but at the same time help her get closure? The cult is designed to prevent people from getting closure after a loss like that, and that's part of the pull. If you can help her to remove that, you'll get one of their biggest hooks out of her and she'll be happier too.

Make sure that you take care of yourself. Make it a priority. She'll see that you're growing as a person and she's stagnating and she won't want to be left behind. Make new friends for yourself and have them 'round and show her how much happier you are. Say things like "I never realized how great it could be to have friends that value me for me, not because we're just in the same group together." Lead by example and she may be won without a word.

It really sucks feeling so completely helpless and out of control in a situation like this, and it can really mess with your head. Try finding a hobby that you can be in complete control of. You've mentioned music - just force yourself to do it and you'll probably find that it comes back. Or find something else. Point is, when you're more fulfilled and feel like you have some power over one thing, you're going to feel better about everything. Your self worth goes up and you'll be more confident and your wife will see it. The more confident you are in your actions, the more she'll doubt her own when they conflict - that's just human nature.

It's clear that you love your wife greatly. I disagree with another's advice to go cold - I think your love for her is your greatest advantage over the cult. If you're cold her choice is between a superficially warm cult and a cold husband and that's an easy choice. Obviously it's up to you, but that's my take on it. I have to work on that myself because it's really hard to be loving towards someone who's giving you the silent treatment for skipping a meeting.

You've got a better chance at success than most, I think. You and your wife have been through a lot together, and in that crucible a powerful bond was formed. The cult may have a superficial draw right now, but I think you'll win. I wish I had the bond with my wife that I suspect that you have with yours.

We're all pulling for you!

91

Setback

by EdenOne in

i saw this coming since my mother-in-law's funeral .... the congregation's "love-bombing" over my wife had its impact.

i watched her drawing closer and closer to her friends in the congregation.

then she decided she would attend the memorial.

OneEyedJoe

the look in her eyes when she looks at me as if I was the very impersonation of evil.

I know that one. And I'm still an active JW that's just missing meetings here and there. It really hurts to see someone that you love, and that you know loves you (on some level at least) look at you that way. I'm really sorry man. I can't imagine the difficulty of getting her out only to see her sucked back in. That's terrible.

If you're not going for a divorce, just remember there's a chance that she'll find her way out again. It's happened before so you know that there's something that can break her free. You'll get another opportunity, and then you can encourage her and help her to do the real work to come to the conclusion that it's a harmful cult.

In the mean time, have you talked to her about how she's treating you? It may be (probably is) unconscious and you might be able to make her realize, at the very least, that it's going to hurt your marriage. I know it's easy for me to just be angry without saying anything, but I recently called my wife on her silent treatment for every missed meeting and the last one I missed she seemed a little less cold towards me than usual. Not leaps and bounds, but it's something. Maybe you can at least get to the point where you have a reasonably happy marriage without the psychological torture.

Also, talking to her about the stuff that injures you might make her see that the cult is causing her to treat the person she loves the most so poorly. That's not the effect of being closer to god.

You're not alone in this by a long shot, and there are so many who've been able to find their way to a much better, healthier, happier situation from where you are now. Maybe your wife won't make it out, maybe your marriage won't last, but you will find your way out if you keep going. Even in the worst case scenario, you'll find yourself in a much better place in the not-too-distant future.

13

JW Articles Loaded with Intentional Imbedded Misleading Clauses...

by freemindfade in

this makes me fume while i sit listening to this at the sunday beeting.... "hence, an elder who is tenderly compassionate does not try to control the sheep, making rules or using guilt to pressure them to do more when their circumstances do not permit them to.-w15 2/15 pp.

5-9. now this sentence makes the elders sound like they should not control, use guilt to pressure etc... but then it has a qualifying statement no one seems to hear.

when their circumstances do no permit them to.

OneEyedJoe

And who is the judge of what someone's circumstances permit? Why, the elders, of course!

This sentence isn't meant to say that the elders should be kind to the congregation. It's meant to tell the r/f that if they feel pressured, it means that they have the circumstances that allow them to do more, but they're too lazy/selfish/sinful/unworthy that they're not doing enough.

25

Today's (4/12) WT study - all about Jesus

by OneEyedJoe in

today's watchtower study article is all about jesus.

this stuck out to me after a year of hanging out on here where one frequent point of criticism is that jws claim to be christians but never talk about jesus.. anyone think it's a coincidence that today was the "special talk" follow-up to the memorial?

i think not - this is the most attended sunday meeting of the year, complete with many ubms, studies, and miscellaneous other potential victims who have been subjected to a coordinated effort to pressure them into attending.

OneEyedJoe

Para 17 was just glossed over in our cong! Why? because the elders felt so uncomfortable with the content of it!! "elders do not try and control the sheep, or make rules etc or pressure them to do more!"

I'm sure that would make any honest elder uncomfortable, since they're constantly told to pressure people to do more. I guess it would also make the typical egotistic elder uncomfortable too since it would be a threat to their authority.

25

Today's (4/12) WT study - all about Jesus

by OneEyedJoe in

today's watchtower study article is all about jesus.

this stuck out to me after a year of hanging out on here where one frequent point of criticism is that jws claim to be christians but never talk about jesus.. anyone think it's a coincidence that today was the "special talk" follow-up to the memorial?

i think not - this is the most attended sunday meeting of the year, complete with many ubms, studies, and miscellaneous other potential victims who have been subjected to a coordinated effort to pressure them into attending.

OneEyedJoe

The doctrine is that the ransom is FOR the anointed, but the OS are fringe beneficiaries of it. It's always explained in a way that subtly makes the r/f jws feel lesser, but they have no choice but to accept it since they still get "sayings of eternal life" out of the deal.

A watcher - you should really do your own study, so I'm not going to do the busy work for you. You really need to be more spiritual and come to an understanding of the deeper things. Keep at it and soon you'll be eating solid food and not the milk meant for mere babes.

14

JW Personality used as an excuse....

by Anon_SA1 in

jw
friends

i had a discussion with a current jw member of +- 30 years, we got chatting about how you can be sure your faith is right and what checks can be done.

i then suggested looking at ex members view points and literature.

her response was her "i am not someone who takes initiative to look online at stuff, i doesn't feel my personality needs me look at outside view points" in summary she was saying her personality type is not interested in looking at other views.

OneEyedJoe

I get a similar response when I point out doctrinal flaws to my wife, "that's never been that important to me."

I don't think it's a personality thing as much as defense mechanism. They sense a threat and come up with any reason they can to avoid it. Since jws are often pressed for time due to all the indoctrination sessions and busy work, the "it's a waste of time/effort/etc" excuse is an easy one.

45

Why do we get TTATT and others don't?

by quest81 in

jw
friends

i have thought about how ttatt came full circle for me.

how the connecting the dots was simple and just made sense,.

how silos of information are literally at our fingertips today.. why is it that the ones we love cannot get ttatt?.

OneEyedJoe

Because JW's aren't looking for reasons to NOT serve Jehovah.

They do claim to be lovers of truth, though. Which makes it all the more curious that they have such an aversion to it.

25

Today's (4/12) WT study - all about Jesus

by OneEyedJoe in

today's watchtower study article is all about jesus.

this stuck out to me after a year of hanging out on here where one frequent point of criticism is that jws claim to be christians but never talk about jesus.. anyone think it's a coincidence that today was the "special talk" follow-up to the memorial?

i think not - this is the most attended sunday meeting of the year, complete with many ubms, studies, and miscellaneous other potential victims who have been subjected to a coordinated effort to pressure them into attending.

OneEyedJoe

You diss us when we DON'T talk about Jesus and you diss us when we DO!

We point out that, for those claiming to be Christian, Christ is not a focus. When he is a focus, it is only in a transparent and dishonest attempt to appear more Christian. Have an ounce of intellectual honesty, and stop over simplifying things.

Also, learn what a hypocrite is.