Posts by OneEyedJoe

16

They lie about everything, why don’t they lie about annual publisher growth?

by John Aquila in

jwfacts show that publisher growth was 15% pre- 1975 and has decline to about 2%.

what prevents them from fudging the annual growth and keeping it at something more positive like 10%?.

"a great crowd that no man is able to number".

OneEyedJoe

They have been (indirectly) fudging the numbers for a while now:

The 15-minute per month publisher.
The pressure put on the R/F to report time almost certainly leads to many inactive ones being counted as publishers.
The pressure on elders by the CO when a new irregular/inactive person shows up on file causes them to apply the pressure on publishers, and in some cases (reported here) even report time on behalf of the inactive one.
The recent transition to counting tracts as placements
Counting time spent on a quick-build, etc.
Counting time spent in family study
Counting time spent giving (and sometimes preparing, depending on the elder) public talks.
Counting time spent writing letters to leave at not-at-homes only to eventually throw them away.

Their numbers are essentially meaningless for any purpose other than comparison year over year. Luckily they make changes in how they cheat the numbers slowly enough that they're still useful to some extent.

64

What triggered your doubts / awakening?

by Tornintwo in

i am sort of new here, used a different username for a while but things got 'difficult' at home so i've since been lurking.... what i would be really interested to know, if you don't mind sharing, is what it was that triggered your doubts and initial research which led to awakening, was it a bad experience, injustice, changed doctrine?

for me, it was seeing mistreatment of young ones in the congregation, they're under so much pressure and as soon as they go even slightly astray they are shunned, either informally (as bad associations which pushes them further into the 'world') or formally - with elders dying to throw the book at them so they even lose their family.... ...then reading about child abuse issues in the press.... ...which led me to silentlambs.

...then jw facts, this forum and coc, wham!

OneEyedJoe

George's post caused me to recall a few more of my doubts. Looking at my lists in hindsight, it's crazy how much it took to reach critical mass.

The change to having a public vs private WT. (another of those "this seems like something you'd do if you were leading a cult" moments)
Removal of the book study - contradicted the command to not forsake the gathering together "all the more so" as the end approaches. Then I recalled tales of 8-day conventions, etc and realized this was a continuing trend. Though at the time I was just relieved to have a little less cult in my life so I didn't want to complain too loudly about this one.
Counting time and all the stats-keeping contradicts with the biblical example of David and the census, as well as Jesus' statement about the pharisees receiving their reward in full when they pray in the streets.
The addition of credit-card machines at the assembly hall after being raised hearing churches condemned for exactly that.

64

What triggered your doubts / awakening?

by Tornintwo in

i am sort of new here, used a different username for a while but things got 'difficult' at home so i've since been lurking.... what i would be really interested to know, if you don't mind sharing, is what it was that triggered your doubts and initial research which led to awakening, was it a bad experience, injustice, changed doctrine?

for me, it was seeing mistreatment of young ones in the congregation, they're under so much pressure and as soon as they go even slightly astray they are shunned, either informally (as bad associations which pushes them further into the 'world') or formally - with elders dying to throw the book at them so they even lose their family.... ...then reading about child abuse issues in the press.... ...which led me to silentlambs.

...then jw facts, this forum and coc, wham!

OneEyedJoe

For me it was about 15 year's worth of straws that eventually broke the camel's back. Early on I asked questions about lots of these but was just never satisfied with the answer I got (which only amplified my doubts). Later on I just stopped asking questions. Then the overlapping generation nonsense combined with a mention of 1975 not necessarily being all private speculation by the R/F led me to ask "how are we different than Harold Camping" and that's what finally pushed me over the edge.

Some of the key factors from memory, roughly in order:

If JWism is the only true religion, why does it seem that most converts are a little nutty an no one with any intelligence seems to be brought in? (this is a sweeping generalization based on the congregation I grew up in, I mean no offense to anyone who converted as an adult.)
Why does it seem that the rules around dating appear designed to get kids married off in their late teens, in spite of all empirical evidence demonstrating that that is a horrible idea?
Evolution seemed to be a much more elegant explanation to speciation than "god did it."
Earthquakes aren't actually increasing in spite of the WTS's claims.
Disfellowshipping sure seemed like something you'd institute if you were trying to keep people in a cult.
The prohibition on higher education also seemed like a good idea if you were running a cult.
The prohibition on outside research seemed like something a cult might do.
Violence condoned by the horrible god of the OT
The bible's claims about the last days are all so vague that just about any generation could (and has) applied them to the time in which they live.
If WWIII broke out in 1975, would that be a pivotal year in JW cronology (similar to 1914)?

Once it got to that point I started looking around online. The 607 thing didn't phase me too much (I wanted black and white proof one way or the other, and since 607 didn't happen in my lifetime I couldn't verify it either way) but when I found the flat-out lies in the creation book (Thanks jwfacts!) a switch flipped in my brain and I was mentally out.

So, for me, I would say that it was 100% doctrine that led me out of the cult. I decided long ago that if it was the truth then I would commit to it no matter what it entailed. I never felt mistreated while I was in, my only source of discomfort with the cult was that there was just too much that didn't make sense and couldn't be reconciled.

55

JWs and their views on Sex

by campaign of hate in

in the past i have read on this forum that the wt have a say in the "bedroom" of couples.

i thought that was a bit overkill at first, but recently i have come to conclusion that this is true.. the control administered by the wt cooperation on ones sex life is not on only intrusive, its damaging.

they control every aspect of ones thought and action, thus leading most down a path that said corporation wants them to tread.. this path is to get married young, and then eternal loyalty the the organisation.. so how can an organisation force you to get married young?.

OneEyedJoe

Sex within a marriage is usually pushed down to the bottom of the pile importance to have a successful happy marriage

Aside from maybe 3-4 references to the scripture that says that wives and husbands must render each other their due, I don't think I've ever heard sex listed as something that was a part of a happy marriage in my entire life in the cult.

Essentially everything said about sex in the cult is negative - STDs, unwanted pregnancy, ruined relationships/friendships, your marriage won't last if you have sex first, even if you do get married after you have sex you'll always regret not saving yourself, and on and on and on. In such an environment, is it surprising that there's rarely a healthy view of sex to be found?

Another way that they lead the youth into the trap of early marriage is by restricting dating to only those who are actively seeking marriage. For one thing, this immediately puts marriage in the discussion at the very beginning of a relationship - it's always in the mind and it seems inevitable. For another, when you're feeling those feelings of giddiness and everything that comes with new love for the first time when you're 18-20, it seems inevitable that you're going to think that it's more significant than it is. What's more is that you're going to be less trained in controlling yourself in that situation. If children are allowed to date in a more casual environment from an earlier age where they don't have nearly decade-old pent up sexual urges, it seems like they'd be more likely to have a healthy view of the life cycle of a relationship and not jump in with both feet just because they're horny and it's nice to be liked by another person.

32

I think the WT believed their own "growth" statements - Financial Trouble Thoughts

by thedepressedsoul in

we've all read, heard and have seen in the videos where jw's and their leaders talk about the "huge" growth that is taking place.

they've talked about how many kh they needed, branches etc... .

our co last visit he mentioned how quickly the organization is speeding up and the huge growth they are seeing.

OneEyedJoe

There are honestly so many options. It all depends on how desperate they get. I could really seem them doing another donation slip except asking you to link your card so it's pulled monthly. You can already do that on JW.orgbut I feel this could be something that once you agree, they add it to JW.org and it's tracked.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but the last CO visit I attended (about 7 months back) he was pushing this feature of JW.org. "It just makes everything so much easier! You never have to wonder 'Did I donate yet this month?' - it's all done for you automatically!" When you stop and think that this is being said by a guy who doesn't actually donate money to the cult it becomes somewhat comical that he was saying it like it was some big stressor in his life.

Another thought - the auto-donate doesn't actually give you a way to donate money to the local KH, does it? It seems to me that they're trying to make it easier to donate to "mother" but let more and more forget to donate to the local expenses, thereby off-loading the begging for money onto the local elders. Then when there's a local needs talk about needing money, it will be about local expenses and all the good little JWs will say "Well I don't like that they're asking for money, but that's just the local congregation - the organization as a whole is still good and doesn't solicit money like christendom"

29

"So you are an atheist. So would you kill me if it were to your advantage?"

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i worked a different shift.

i knew the people i worked with, but not as well as i could have.. anyway, religion comes up.

one guy mentions in front of another that i wrote a book about my religious experience.

OneEyedJoe

Unbelievable. So he can't imagine why anyone would refrain from murder unless they feared God and eternal torment in hell. it sounds like he is the one with problems.

From the sound of it, he should be less worried about killing someone to claim an advantage than would be an atheist. An atheist would have to live with the memory of taking the life of another, whereas he could just assume he sent someone to heaven and Jesus would forgive him.

55

Should I Make My Wife Watch the May Broadcast?

by TTATTelder in

jw
friends

for some background, i am still in.

still an elder.

very much awake.

OneEyedJoe

if there are problems then jehovah will reveal them in time

What if he is revealing it? There are examples in the bible of god's organization going astray (mostly bad kings) but most of the time it resulted in the deaths of thousands that were just trying to follow along and remain loyal to god's organization. So it's not something to be unsure of or take lightly.

29

"So you are an atheist. So would you kill me if it were to your advantage?"

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i worked a different shift.

i knew the people i worked with, but not as well as i could have.. anyway, religion comes up.

one guy mentions in front of another that i wrote a book about my religious experience.

OneEyedJoe

So he can do just whatever the hell he wants to and Jesus will forgive him, but you're the one without morals? I just don't even know what to do with someone who couldn't see the irony there. It sounds like his definition of morality is just to feel guilty about the stuff you do, not actually bother to be a decent person. Anyone that takes a course of action with the expectation that they'll be forgiven for it is about the bottom of the barrel as far as morality goes.

If you think about it, it makes perfect sense that an atheist (at least a thinking atheist, not necessarily those that are atheist by convenience) would be more moral than a theist - atheists have no expectation in some sky daddy that'll come along and make things right, so we need to try to get it right ourselves. Theists assume that if they make a mess of things because it's easier/fun sky daddy will come in and fix it and forgive them.

36

"Be Kind to the Fornicators in the Congregation!" -- New August Watchtower

by FusionTheism in

have you noticed the article entitled "watch your associations in these last days" in the new august 2015 study watchtower?.

unless i'm reading it wrong, or somehow misinterpreting it, it is saying that we should be kind to intentional breakers of god's laws inside and outside the congregation, including fornicators, but that we must not be close associates with them.. are they already preparing for a shift in their disfellowshipping practices?.

here are the relevant paragraphs:.

OneEyedJoe

This is probably more in the line of marking and I doubt it will have any impact on DFing. This will probably be taken to reinforce the informal shunning of people that aren't showing up at meetings and such. DFing is such a central part of the cult's information control that I don't see it ever going away.

9

John Carpenter's "THEY LIVE!"

by cappytan in

jw
friends

so i'm catching up on r rated movies that i missed when i was younger.

"they live!

" was on the el rey network the other day so decided to watch it.. it was kind of eerie watching this being a fader.. here's a guy living under a controlling regime of elites and only he can see the control measures for what they are.

OneEyedJoe

Great movie. And the 'I'm here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and km all out of gum' line is just classic. Actually watched it with the wife a couple years ago, and of course the parallels were lost on me at the time.