OneEyedJoe

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Posts by OneEyedJoe

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  31

  How to evade questions from elders when you stop going out door to door

  by Olivia Wilde in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  due to circumstances right now i cannot leave permanently the watchtower, however i need honest advice of what to say when elders question me how come im not meeting the group out for door to door & going out in " field service"... what would be proper responses not to draw suspicions since i'm aware of ttatt.. .any serious advice please...

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  OneEyedJoe

  There is no way around it, either you come clean or tell a lie...

  That's not necessarily true. Silence works too.

  When I was visited by a couple elders to "encourage" me, I didn't tell them a single lie and I didn't tell them enough to DF me either. Much of the exchange went like this:

  Elder: Is there a reason you haven't been at the meetings?

  Me: Yes.

  Elder: Do you want to share that reason with us?

  Me: No.

  Elder: Ok...(long pause) Well do you still view your dedication to jehovah as something that is valid to you?

  Me: My relationship with god is a very personal thing.

  Elder: Uh....OK...well do you believe that the bible is god's word?

  Me: That's definitely a very good question that everyone really needs to consider and decide for themselves, isn't it?

  Elder: Yes...yes it is...

  It's not necessarily an easy thing to do, because you'll be acutely aware of how uncomfortable you're making them. Especially if you actually happen to like the elders that are questioning you - one of them was a very kind brother that I liked personally, but luckily the douche ex-DO that's been COBE for all of 3 months was the one that did all the talking which made it a little easier. He definitely wasn't used to someone failing to bow down and spill their guts at his questioning, but there's nothing he can do about it, ultimately.
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  27

  Who am I to screw up their happiness?

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  that was the question to me tonight.

  because of their beliefs they have a moral compass, a net work of friends and a support group.

  they have what they believe is a loving god.

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  OneEyedJoe

  It's not your fault that they're living in delusion. The pain of waking up is not caused by the information that causes the awakening, the pain is because of the delusion that was previously entertained.

  Who are you to bring an end to their delusion? I would ask the inverse question instead - who are you to withhold evidence that they are staking (and wasting) their lives on the lies of a cult?

  Just because this cult bases it's lies on a twisting of biblical scripture doesn't make it's control over the lives of JWs any more justified than Scientology's control over the lives of it's adherents. Yes they teach a semblance of a moral code, but how great are the morals that JWs are taught? I think just about everyone, regardless of their cultural upbringing gets the basics pretty much instinctively: don't steal, murder, rape, etc. Let's look at the morals that JWs teach that won't come to them naturally. They're taught that a person's privately held beliefs are grounds for emotionally manipulative behavior designed to force that person to change their beliefs. They're taught to fear, distrust, and invalidate the rights of homosexuals. They're taught to feel shame due to their normal sexual impulses. They're taught to judge everyone they meet based on the arbitrary (and I would argue, damaging) rules made by the watchtower society. The list could go on nearly forever. The JW moral code is not something to be put on a pedestal. In fact, one could argue that having a moral code prescribed by a third party does little but discourage a person from devoting thought to how best to live in society in such a way that it is bettered by their presence. An absence of an imposed moral compass can leave someone a better person because they have to put thought into it themselves and thus they're more invested in their moral decisions.

  You also cite the community that they have... Sure maybe waking up will cause some loss there, and it's difficult to rebuild, but they will become a part of a community roughly 1000 times larger. They'll be free to chose their own community based on who they like, not based on who professes to hold the beliefs as published by a man-made cult.
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  175

  Implications of gay marriage ruling

  by Rattigan350 in

  1. social
  2. current

  while many think that the ruling is good for the gays and their response is: how does that affect your marriage; then on the other side the religious people cry god and sinners.

  but both are missing the forest through the trees.. the problem with the ruling is that which is discussed here so many times.

  five unelected federal officials decided on policy for the whole country, running roughshod over every democratic principle.

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  OneEyedJoe

  You're absolutely right! This whole movement reminds me so much of the Watchtower, the similarities are uncanny.
  

  Yeah, this is just like the WTS! Those guys are always expanding personal freedom! Damn them to hell!
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  65

  Here is the funeral talk outline. VERY discraceful.

  by stillstuckcruz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is truly terrible.

  i just love the statement "instead of eulogizing the deceased, use the material in this outline to give a fine witness concerning the truth.

  " in other words, utterly disregard the deceased.

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  OneEyedJoe

  They are being stupid because if I knew nothing about them before I went to one of their memorial talks I would be horrified.
  

  They probably see it as the best opportunity to recruit, and honestly they're probably right. They could probably go about it a little better, but something tells me that for the time investment put in, funeral talks probably yield several orders of magnitude more recruits than does field service. They've got a captive audience of emotionally distraught people which is the perfect time for a high-pressure sales pitch from the cult.

  They're not after people like you or I that can handle the death already and just want to grieve, they're looking for those that are completely wrecked and vulnerable.
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  65

  Here is the funeral talk outline. VERY discraceful.

  by stillstuckcruz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is truly terrible.

  i just love the statement "instead of eulogizing the deceased, use the material in this outline to give a fine witness concerning the truth.

  " in other words, utterly disregard the deceased.

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  OneEyedJoe

  I had noticed this as well and disagreed long before I left

  Same here. Somehow I made it to about 25 before I ever went to a cult funeral, but when I did it was striking how little they talked about the person that died and how much it felt like just another meeting. It seemed utterly tasteless. I remember looking at some of the non-JWs that came and thinking "They'll never want to be a JW after listening to this."
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  39

  Jehovah's Witnesses want to invite you to their newly refurbished hall!

  by username in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just seen this on goggle news.

  a report into a hall actually being refurbished!.

  http://www.thecomet.net/news/stevenage_s_jehovah_s_witnesses_celebrate_worship_hall_s_makeover_and_invite_public_to_come_along_1_4228859.

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  OneEyedJoe

  Quote from a JW in the article:

  “There are a lot of questions about Jehovah’s Witnesses – this is an opportunity to come and see the hall to put your mind at rest and to see what is here.”
  

  You'd think that they'd realize that there's something wrong if they find something like that coming out of their mouth. I don't think I've ever heard of another church inviting people to come "to put your mind at rest." Hopefully anyone reading the article that doesn't already have concerns about JWs will see that as a red flag. If they're really a legitimate religion (and indeed the only legitimate religion) why would people have concern for the community due to their presence?
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  40

  New Geoffrey Jackson statement on Royal Commission's webpage!!!!!!!!!!!!

  by Viva la Vida in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  check his signature... it looks kind of childish/feminine (at least in my part of the world)... is this a grown man's signature for you?.

  http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/downloadfile.ashx?guid=9d0ca1dc-1bd6-41c4-9cfc-b1d616d1cc65&type=exhibit&filename=stat.0670.001.0001&fileextension=pdf.

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  OneEyedJoe

  I have to admit, when I saw the comment about his signature in the OP, my first thought was, "That's kind of petty."
  

  haha I had the same thought. Actually my exact thought was "here we go again - people focusing on the wrong thing and just confirming JW's views of us apostates." Then I saw it and now agree that it's definitely odd and seems worth the mention.
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  25

  For Those of You Who Still Serve... How Do You Do It?

  by Kingdom Evader in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  new here... been lurking for some time now.... i still serve... but with each passing day, it gets harder and harder.

  i'm slowly... slowly working on my wife (i call her mrs. hardcore) and even my m-i-l (who taught my wife how to be hardcore).

  making some amazing progress... they are still hardcore... but unrecognizable from a couple years ago!.

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  OneEyedJoe

  I was never an MS/Elder, but I went through some of the same issues. Out in service I'd pretend to ring the bell like you in some cases - tried to work by myself as much as possible. Anytime someone came to the door (if I'm working with someone and had to knock) I would muck up the presentation to the point that they'd just say they're not interested.

  For talks, I'd make a game of working in subversive material that fit the outline. I had a couple I was particularly proud of. One where I worked in a comment about how some "other" religious organizations had ties to the UN - the scarlet colored wild beast of revelation - and that we would certainly not want to be associated with any such organization. In another I made a comment about Jesus being the savior and that we should not allow any man to get between us and our relationship to Jesus, like catholics do with the pope. I'm sure I didn't make anyone think, but it was kinda fun to condemn everyone in the room all while they nod along.

  Good luck with the women in your life. I hope you're able to reach them and escape with your sanity in tact!
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  20

  I need some advice

  by SpunkedTeen in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i dont think ill be able to leave the organization,you see i have no close friends in or outside the jws and my entire family is part of the cult,if i leave my mom and the rest of my family will be heartbroken and i dont want to be the reason they are hurt.

  im not particularly close to any of my family members but i still care for them.

  i could really use some advice because i have no one else to turn too..

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  OneEyedJoe

  Start by forcing yourself to make friends with non-JWs (aka normals) and start expanding your support network. This is huge. Once you feel comfortable and supported by true friends that appreciate you for who you are not what you (claim to) believe you'll feel much better about leaving the cult if that's what you decide to do. It may take a while, but it's worth it to develop true, genuine friendships.

  Also, I think you need to give yourself permission to live your own life. If someone is hurt because you want to live a happy life with integrity, then I would assert that they're the ones that are behaving unethically. By trying to manipulate you through emotional appeals into abandoning your sense of self, they are absolutely in the wrong. In this case, your family has been themselves manipulated by an unethical organization. Your leaving will NOT be the reason they are hurt. The reason for the pain here rests solely with the watchtower society, not you.

  It's entirely possible that leaving may in fact be the purest expression of your care for your family. You've had the strength to see through the lies of the cult and they haven't yet gotten there. Would it be caring to continue to tacitly endorse their exploitation by remaining? Or would it be more caring to set an example for them by leaving and living a happy life? You never know what will happen.

  I'm not trying to make your decision for you here, just trying to make the point that we live in a morally ambiguous world because we can never fully know the future results of our actions. In that sort of an environment I think the only thing that can be expected of anyone is that they do their best to do the right thing while simultaneously seeking to create a happy life for themselves.
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  24

  Conditioned to fail

  by Jordandemm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just want to say hi and a big thank you to all that post in this site.

  it has been extremely tough waking up as a born.

  but in slowly removing any doubts about leaving this man made religion.

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  OneEyedJoe

  Welcome!

  It's definitely difficult to make normal friends after leaving. The way we made friends as born-in JWs is not really normal, at least in my experience. Most of my friends growing up were practically assigned to me because they were from strong spiritual families. Making normal friends seems (to me) to be a much slower process and it's hard to get used to. If you're still in school, that will probably make things easier, though since a lot of people around you are in the same boat. The key seems to be just to force yourself to try. If something doesn't work don't get discouraged and keep putting yourself out there.

  If you still have some lingering phobia of "worldly" people that can make things difficult too, but the only real solution is to sort of throw yourself in and you'll probably find that not all worldly people are bad people. Some are, but so are some JWs as I'm sure you realize. If you find yourself thinking that someone hurting you in some way is because they're worldly, remember that that's almost certainly confirmation bias. Look for examples of good "worldly" (aka normal) people and you'll definitely find some.

  Good luck to you! Hang in there...I won't lie and say it's easy, but it can be done.