Posts by OneEyedJoe

75

Lurker trying to gain clarity

by questioningmyfaith in

jw
friends

hello all, i would like to first say that i am basically questioning my faith in god.

i am not negative towards the wt at all.

so honestly i am to concerned with more ad hominem attacks towards the wt because i still love the organization and the people in it.

OneEyedJoe

This reminds me of the Socrates quote from over 1600 years ago:

The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.

The fact is that every generation thinks the outgoing generation is old fashioned and that the next generation is doomed. You're focusing on the bad news which is often sensationalized and put forth more because it sells. There's lots of good news out there too, though. There have been people in every generation for the last 2000 years that thought that "critical times hard to deal with will be here" was being fulfilled. Meanwhile the world has improved by just about every metric there is.

On a bit of a tangent - I'd encourage you to consider a thought experiment to see if maybe the "ad hominem attacks" against the watchtower might be justified. Lets assume for a minute that you're doubts are well founded and there is no god. That would mean that the watchtower has caused the needless death of thousands due to their policy on blood transfusions. They've contributed to the brutal torture, rape and murder of many in Malawi for insisting that JWs not purchase a party card. They've contributed to countless suicides through their institutionalized shunning of young kids whos only crime was giving in to a powerful natural impulse. They've broken up families when one spouse decides that it's no longer for them. These things are indisputable, and the list goes on. While I agree with you that most JWs have good intentions and just want to serve god, I hope you will agree that IF there is no god then this organization has a lot to answer for.

25

Going Nuclear - Marriage

by Sofia Lose in

has anyone here gone nuclear on their spouse and, all of a sudden, came out in the open as a jw opposer?.

by this i mean, sitting them down and saying: i no longer want to be a jw anymore, do not want to go to meetings or preaching anymore!

and, what has happened in the relationship after that?.

OneEyedJoe

I notice it is the guys that have gone nuclear and it seems easier than if it is the woman that does it. Correct me if wrong on this.

I think it just depends on your relationship how easy it is. The WT teachings can definitely have a way of training men to be overbearing and see themselves as the supreme leader of their household. Not all JW men aspire to be that, though, and hopefully that's not the case with your husband. That's definitely one element that could make this more difficult for women but I hope your husband gives you the proper respect that you deserve if/when you decide to be open with the fact that you no longer believe in the cult.

It's also possible that you're getting responses from men here because we're all just suckers for a damsel in distress.

53

Are the J.W's reaching a "Tipping point"?

by karter in

jw
friends

i haven't been to a meeting in 15 years but my mother and sister are hard as j.w's.

the brothers they are appointing elders are at best suspect like one guy from my old hall made elder,big time drug used before becoming a j.w his talks are all over the place and would have struggled to make m,s years ago but with at least 60 to 70 % of young ones leaving the pool to pick from is at best reduced.. 2 other recent elders both young and zero life experience both on benefits one not well at all falls asleep all the time.. the decent,kind elders mostly older and are decent people with alot of life experience are burning out fast as there are so few of them left like 3 per congro of 100 publishers.. then you have the rich elders who wouldn't ever think of inviting some poor older or mis-fit person out to the expensive placers they go to as they couldn't afford to go so they are above the r&f and the r&f get pissed off with them.

then we have the ones who have "put the kingdom 1st" who are now old worn out and barely getting by from welfare cheque to welfare cheque that are saying "the system should have been over many years ago" it's still here and they are struggling everyday.. then there are the pioneers who have a low payed reduced hour job that seem to think anyone who has anything is totally materialistic and looks down on anyone getting a new car buying a house ect.. along with the child abuse issues,the generation change,access to information the the g.b don't want anyone to know ,not to mention the issues around blood.. is there a tipping point coming????

OneEyedJoe

and yet we still have individuals who insist that the WTS will still be going strong a hundred years from now

I suspect it'll still be here, it just won't look like it does today. Which given the history of the cult, is not a very bold prediction to make.

110

Just had a former elder friend tell me, “This Overlapping generation is crap.

by John Aquila in

last night i ran into a former elder friend, he is in his late 70s.

he asked how i was doing and i asked how he was doing.

then out of the blue he tells me; .

OneEyedJoe

Nope. Not in my congregation. They are praising it, and specifically the 'new explanation' in the September broadcast.

It's possible that they're just doing what they think they're supposed to be doing. I bet a healthy percentage (at least of the ones that have two brain cells to rub together are praising it because that's just what you do. In the back of their mind though, something just isn't right. As an example - I've had a bad knee due to an injury for about 12 years now. No matter what the doctors did I was left with frequent knee pain. When people would ask me about a recent surgery I would often say "It'll sure be nice in the new system when I have someone working on it that knows what they're doing!" At the time I was at a low point (in hindsight I was sooooo close to waking up) in my belief and as I said the words it just made me feel worse because I knew that it was a delusion. But I said it, and I acted cheerful about it because that's what was expected of me. Social pressure is a bitch. People could be praising it now hoping that they'll figure it out, but once they realize that their inability to make sense of it isn't their fault, the story will start to change.

I was surprised when I heard him say 'if the end comes'

It's always sad to watch someone go through the realization that they're going to die one day. Even sadder when it's so late in life that it's not just "I'm going to die one day" but "I'm going to die some day soon."

53

Are the J.W's reaching a "Tipping point"?

by karter in

jw
friends

i haven't been to a meeting in 15 years but my mother and sister are hard as j.w's.

the brothers they are appointing elders are at best suspect like one guy from my old hall made elder,big time drug used before becoming a j.w his talks are all over the place and would have struggled to make m,s years ago but with at least 60 to 70 % of young ones leaving the pool to pick from is at best reduced.. 2 other recent elders both young and zero life experience both on benefits one not well at all falls asleep all the time.. the decent,kind elders mostly older and are decent people with alot of life experience are burning out fast as there are so few of them left like 3 per congro of 100 publishers.. then you have the rich elders who wouldn't ever think of inviting some poor older or mis-fit person out to the expensive placers they go to as they couldn't afford to go so they are above the r&f and the r&f get pissed off with them.

then we have the ones who have "put the kingdom 1st" who are now old worn out and barely getting by from welfare cheque to welfare cheque that are saying "the system should have been over many years ago" it's still here and they are struggling everyday.. then there are the pioneers who have a low payed reduced hour job that seem to think anyone who has anything is totally materialistic and looks down on anyone getting a new car buying a house ect.. along with the child abuse issues,the generation change,access to information the the g.b don't want anyone to know ,not to mention the issues around blood.. is there a tipping point coming????

OneEyedJoe

I feel 2014-2015 was their apex. I believe starting in 14 a lot woke up. And a lot more are showing signs of disatusfaction. But because it's a cult and "captive" religion, the tipping could be slow because so many inside that have mind that can wake up, may believe it's only them and fear not being a witnesses.

I agree. Though it might be significant that the two people saying this woke up in 2014.

It seems a lot of the noobs here cite the overlapping generation nonsense as their last straw, and I think putting that out at the beginning of 2014 was a big mistake - I think they wanted to "get in front" of the disappointment of 2014 coming and going uneventfully, but it seems that a lot of people sorta saw it as an acknowledgement that their false prophecies had failed in a significant way and that nothing would happen that year either. Now that everything is settling back into the normal routine after all the hype of 2014 I think a lot of people are going to start looking around and asking questions.

Even without that, the OP seems to do a good job of describing the general state of the congregations around here as well. The "good" elders are getting old. There's a lot of "murmuring" about the new appointees - most are at least 4 out of 5: young and inexperienced, petty, self-righteous, rude, or downright stupid. In my former congregation, they hadn't even lost that many of the older elders yet and they're already getting this desperate. In the next 5-10 years all but maybe 2 elders from that congregation that are worth anything will be either dead or severely limited due to age, and they've already scraping the bottom of the barrel for replacements. This isn't going anywhere good - the intelligent ones from the last generation are dying off and their replacements are idiots that rely only on blind obedience. Anyone in the next generation that has any sense will surely be pushed out.

28

Is it really that great being one of the Governing Body Members?

by John Aquila in

movie stars travel to, or buy their own private beaches, they get invited to fun parties, and are able to buy not one, but several fast sport cars like jay leno.

they can buy their own planes and helicopters and fly them like harrison ford.

(how much fun would that be?

OneEyedJoe

I think it's all relative. Would I want to be a GB member? Hell no. However for them, it may well be the best life they could achieve. They have a level of security that most people do not - they needn't worry about their housing, food, healthcare. They live on well manicured grounds and get to travel the world with no cost. They don't own mansions, but they have access to picturesque "regional translation offices" and I'm sure they're not staying in 1-star motels while traveling. They clearly either use the money they control to purchase luxuries for themselves (watches that cost 5-figures, gold rings, etc) or they use their power to secure many "gifts."

Security is an immensely valuable thing, and these guys have it. They may have to live by the moral code that they've set up, but I'm certain that there are ways around that for men in their position. Honestly I didn't find the JW moral code to be all that oppressive (well, not once I got married...) and they probably aren't bothered by the parts of it that they follow. Their friends might be conditional, but they're probably all bordering on sociopaths (being conservative) and probably enjoy the power that they wield over their "friends." Their travel may be for JW events in most cases, but there are a great many people who would love to go and talk in front of an enthralled audience of thousands of adoring fans anytime they travel. I'm sure the JW related events are a very different experience as a GB member - not the drudgery that we're used to. So a vacation centered around a convention might be quite enjoyable in that position.

They may not get the absolute best in life, but lets face it - if not for the cult they'd be nothing close to movie stars, so it's not really a worthwhile comparison. The life of a GB member is probably the absolute best life that any of them could attain. Just because I'd kill myself doesn't mean that they're absolutely not in it for themselves. Whether conscious or not, I believe that most, if not all, of them are definitely keeping the cult going in part to maintain their lifestyle.

25

Going Nuclear - Marriage

by Sofia Lose in

has anyone here gone nuclear on their spouse and, all of a sudden, came out in the open as a jw opposer?.

by this i mean, sitting them down and saying: i no longer want to be a jw anymore, do not want to go to meetings or preaching anymore!

and, what has happened in the relationship after that?.

OneEyedJoe

Husband has expressed to me that he would choose Jehovah over me, in a fit of rage of course. I love him and our marriage is great in every way, except for me having to fake the faith thing for many years now. He is hardcore, so it does not look good for me. However, this faking stuff is weighing heavier as time passes by.

You can't always trust what's said in a fit of rage, to be sure. If your marriage is otherwise good, then you probably have good chances of being able to at least maintain a dialog about how to move forward instead of him just blowing up and leaving you. It might be worthwhile to see a therapist or counselor of some kind for a little while in order to learn how best to communicate in order to keep things civil while working towards a solution that you can both live with. A therapist can also help you work out just what it is that you actually want as well as providing support before and after you call it quits - that support will likely make a huge difference if things do go as badly as you fear.

It sounds like you've been going through the motions for quite some time. I don't know how you do it. The year I spent at it was miserable and it was affecting every aspect of my life and it definitely did some damage to my marriage as well. Perhaps you don't have to jump in with both feet, though - maybe you can talk to him simply about taking some time off from the JW thing to work through your doubts...you might find that it's not that much easier than faking it, or you might find that it's the best thing you've ever done. That'll really inform your decision whether or not to make a stand.

28

Im always afraid

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

people tell me all sorts of different opinions.

i seem to feel a constant feeling of dread and anxiety.

the possibility of god existing scares me but so does the possibility of him not.

OneEyedJoe

Thank you all for your advice. Although I don't really have any close friends and I'm not allowed to talk to non jws. And I homeschool.

You're definitely in an unenviable position. Obviously the ideal would be to have a great support system of people that could be physically present with you. If that's not possible, feel free to PM me if you ever want to talk things through. I'm sure a great many others on this site would be willing to provide a listening ear as well.

25

Going Nuclear - Marriage

by Sofia Lose in

has anyone here gone nuclear on their spouse and, all of a sudden, came out in the open as a jw opposer?.

by this i mean, sitting them down and saying: i no longer want to be a jw anymore, do not want to go to meetings or preaching anymore!

and, what has happened in the relationship after that?.

OneEyedJoe

I didn't initiate it directly, but I had that conversation with my wife back in April. She'd known for a few months that something was up (it'd been about a year being awake) and apparently my attempting to show her an article of how the mormons use the BITE model for control was the final straw. We talked a while and for a while I played it as if it was innocent for a while but when she asked me point-blank if I'd made up my mind that I don't want to be a JW I confirmed that I had.

It was touch-and-go there for a little while, but we've more or less recovered into a place where we can at least talk fairly openly with civility. It took probably 3 months before the random crying spells (on her part) stopped, but they tapered off after a while. I'll not say that the marriage has fully recovered, but I expect that to take some time...the year that I spent awake caused some significant problems due to her treatment of me for what little tapering off in cult activity that I did during that time.

On the plus side, I haven't been to a meeting or recruiting since mid april and she hasn't tried to get me to go either. She knows I'm done and I'm never going back and she seems to be accepting that part of the new reality reasonably well.

She and her parents (though not her brother, apparently) seem to be somewhat more liberal than most JWs, though. She's gotten upset about other people who have started to treat me as "bad association" (not complete shunning, but it's noticeable) because she doesn't think it's right to cut someone out just because of their privately held beliefs (but somehow she refuses to see that doing so is completely in line with what they're taught to do). So in that way she might not be completely typical.

Unfortunately, there are no guarantees here. I've read accounts of someone "coming out" in this situation and the responses seem to have ranged from immediate separation followed by divorce to the spouse relating that they too have had doubts and the couple examining them and leaving together.

I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do, though.

3

Vincent TOOLE

by Joe Grundy in

i have just reviewed the arc evidence given by this man.

it is pathetic.. i am now retired, but until then my professional life was spent in the legal arena.

toole fumbles his way through his answers, fails to understand the principle of 'instructions', and so much more.

OneEyedJoe

Toole has proved himself to be a dickhead.

Toole is a tool.