Posts by OneEyedJoe

112

Did an EX-JW wake you up to TTATT or did you put the effort to wake up yourself?

by John Aquila in

how many of us were woken up by some apostate yelling false prophets at a convention?.

how many of us were woken up by someone holding a sign and yelling, what happened to 1975.

how many of us were coerced to investigate the wt because some ex-jw pulled up a bunch of old watchtowers magazines and told us to read the false predictions?.

OneEyedJoe

Woke myself up.

I will admit that it's possible that some interaction with an apostate helped some. When I was ~13 I was allowed to go to a door with a friend of mine of about the same age. First time this happened, a woman accepted the magazines on the condition that we take a tract from her - we didn't know any better and did so, and later we read it with his family and ridiculed how stupid it was when it talked about how CTR sold his business for the equivalent of millions of dollars and started his publishing company. While at the time it strengthened my resolve that anyone critical of the cult doesn't know what they're talking about, it did stay with me. When I heard things at meetings that made me think "If I was trying to set up a cult, I'd definitely include that teaching" I would think back to that day and wonder if maybe that little tract was truthful after all.

In the end it was definitely 99% my own doing, and I don't think it would've happened much differently without that experience. I am, however, eternally grateful for what that woman tried to do that day.

28

Is the end of Watchtowers hated No Blood doctrine in sight?

by nicolaou in

i won't pretend to know things that i don't but just look at the incredible rate of change we've witnessed recently.

it seems that since candace conti and the australian royal commission the watchtower are scrabbling around to shore up their finances in the face of unprecedented legal action against them.. abuse settlement claims are one thing but what happens when children die as a result of your religious teachings?!

you can bet wt legal are arguing for a complete rewrite of policy to protect the organisation from litigation.. do you think their religious privilege will protect them forever?

OneEyedJoe

One Eyed Joe:
How is that going to work? They still do the "blood cards" - don't they? Their whole rant on those blood cards is about remaining faithful.

My plan for slowly backing away from the blood doctrine over several years:

Stop mentioning blood in the magazines altogether. They've already stopped doing this somewhat, as I can't remember the last time that they had the part on the service meeting where everyone filled out a new blood card and then after the meeting everyone's walking around getting someone to sign theirs as a witness.
Have an occasional casual mention about how some requirements that the 1st century christians lived by were put in place so as not to stumble those that were still very emotionally attached to the jewish laws. Again, don't mention blood here, give other examples.
At the same time they can slowly begin changing the HLC's duties to general moral support for those that are infirm and remove the focus on blood as their reason for being. They can find many scriptures to support the idea that christians should show love to those in need and everyone will think that they're just reinforcing something that was already the case.
Remove any penalties for use of blood products via a BOE letter that only the elders read. Perhaps cite legal reasons and open with "in view of the critical times in which we live..." The elders won't think anything has changed with doctrine, just that the org is avoiding lawsuits. It will be left "in Jehovah's hands" if anyone takes blood and no sanctions will be pursued against them (possibly with the stipulation that they have to stay quiet about taking blood).
After a couple years, stop issuing the DPA/blood card stuff for newly baptized ones. It will be explained (to elders only via a BOE letter) that new converts are responsible for using their bible trained conscience and should be moved to draft the documentation themselves. Most will put it off and forget.
After a certain point a new elders manual will be printed that will not include any mention of blood, or medical DPAs or any of that. It'll be forgotten.
Issue a QFR or similar stating that they don't want to get involved in medical treatment and all such decisions should be left to each individual's bible-trained conscience and all related matters will be "left in Jehovah's hands." Again, no mention of blood.
If they want to fully abolish the blood ban (I don't see why they'd ever go this far) they could write a WT article about not judging one another for their personal choices and not pushing your choices on others (obviously it will be full of doublespeak because judging each other is an integral part of JWism) and at about paragraph 17 when everyone's bored and barely paying attention they'll mention something about blood. Footnote references to articles from steps 2 and 7 will make it seem like they've always taught this. State the blood ban was only important for first century christians and is a matter for each person's conscience.

Now, all that said, I think the blood ban is probably much more important to the survival of the cult than most give it credit for. If the GB realizes this, they'll never get rid of it. It's a powerful tool for indoctrination - it seems like a low stakes thing to fill out a blood card, everyone does so thinking "it'll never happen to me" because humans have a documented poor ability to estimate the likelihood of unlikely events, especially bad ones. They fill out the card, essentially pledging to die for the cult, and that becomes a powerful tool to trigger CD in the victim. Talks about blood and loyalty remind the R/F that they've pledged their life to the cult. Any doubts that come to mind conflict with the idea that they've pledged to die for the cult because they do not want to consider the possibility that they've done something so drastic in support of a false cult. It's even stronger if they know someone who's died as a result or if they had a close call or have children who's lives they've pledged to the cult in this way. The thought that this loss or potential loss was for naught will keep them from examining their problems with the cult and they remain trapped.

34

Belief in God Can Be Turned Off Like a Light Switch

by cofty in

researchers in york used magnetic stimulation to target an area of the brain called the medial frontal cortex in a group of volunteers.

a control group received a sham treatment.. both groups were asked to think about death.

the group who experienced the magnetic energy reported 32.8% less belief in angels, god and heaven.. when faced with difficult challenges people often take refuge in ideology.

OneEyedJoe

This raises an interesting question. If something like this could be used on someone without their knowledge would it be unethical to do so in order to, say, get my wife out of the cult? It sounds like this doesn't actually change what people think, it just allows them to think about concepts that would normally be threatening to them. So you're not really changing their thoughts, just helping them to explore their thoughts more effectively.

28

Is the end of Watchtowers hated No Blood doctrine in sight?

by nicolaou in

i won't pretend to know things that i don't but just look at the incredible rate of change we've witnessed recently.

it seems that since candace conti and the australian royal commission the watchtower are scrabbling around to shore up their finances in the face of unprecedented legal action against them.. abuse settlement claims are one thing but what happens when children die as a result of your religious teachings?!

you can bet wt legal are arguing for a complete rewrite of policy to protect the organisation from litigation.. do you think their religious privilege will protect them forever?

OneEyedJoe

I can see them slowly backing away from it, but never outright saying that blood is now a conscience issue. If they're going to scrap it, they'll most likely just stop mentioning it so new converts won't know about it and it can die a quiet death. They can't just do away with it, though, because too many would realize that they're responsible for thousands of deaths (and even bragged about it).

26

Bygone Days of Old Bethel...

by freemindfade in

something occurred to me last night.

people that made their pilgrimage to jw mecca (bethel) would often be excited about some silly things, i say silly because for those of you who were there or lived near enough to be involved in these things regularly they lost their magic.

i am talking about on tours one of the most memorable things people talked about or looked forward to... lunch.

OneEyedJoe

Now that I'm thinking about it, lunch was something of a big deal when I toured it, but I remember it mainly because they went on about different techniques the bethelites had for saving food and scrounging leftovers so they didn't have to buy dinner for themselves. I remember thinking how odd it was that this would be required for survival when one was a part of "Jehovah's Organization." Why didn't they just provide dinner, too, I wondered.

26

Bygone Days of Old Bethel...

by freemindfade in

something occurred to me last night.

people that made their pilgrimage to jw mecca (bethel) would often be excited about some silly things, i say silly because for those of you who were there or lived near enough to be involved in these things regularly they lost their magic.

i am talking about on tours one of the most memorable things people talked about or looked forward to... lunch.

OneEyedJoe

Yeah, I went once (luckily it was a part of a much more entertaining vacation to NYC) when I was younger. The one thing that stands out the most was how everyone was so impressed with how quickly the guy that packed the magazines into boxes could take a flat box and open it up and fold the bottom in. Granted it was quite fast, but it just didn't seem like the sort of thing that should be exciting people.

23

City of Sodom discovered

by Saved_JW in

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3270999/has-biblical-city-sodom-monstrous-site-jordan-matches-descriptions-area-destroyed-god.html

OneEyedJoe

jeeze someone's wound up. I don't think anyone was here claiming that the discovery was evidence of the bible's divine backing. While the bible thumpers always claim this to be the case, I think that the more of this stuff we find and demystify (i.e. it was just a random asteroid or an earthquake in a seismically active region) the more it objectively demonstrates that tales like this were just people trying to make sense of nature with a primitive understanding of things.

23

City of Sodom discovered

by Saved_JW in

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3270999/has-biblical-city-sodom-monstrous-site-jordan-matches-descriptions-area-destroyed-god.html

OneEyedJoe

Besides, where is the crater that could provide evidence of such impact?

Could've exploded in the air as with the Tunguska event. No crater but it certainly could've still caused death/fires/structure damage.

19

They would all fit on the isle of Wight?

by purrpurr in

i remember once asking how the planet could possibly accommodate all the people who have ever lived?

after the resurrection i mean.

the answer i was told is that the gb had calculated that all the people who have ever lived could all fit on to the isle of wight?!.

OneEyedJoe

Of course they could all fit - no calculations needed. It's all in how high you're willing to stack the bodies.

30

How to survive an assembly

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

hey i was just wondering if you guys had any ideas on how to keep my brain occupied while i'm at an assembly tommorow.

maybe besides tallying the number of times they say jehovah and jesus or counting how many people are wearing red.

i want to keep myself from going insane or having some kind of panic attack lol.

OneEyedJoe

I usually browsed the internet all day on my tablet.