This is far too complex an issue for it to be feasible to attack directly. At best I think you may get some sort of sanction against tax-exempt (loss of status, maybe) organizations that systematically advocate shunning people merely for changing religions. Or maybe something with regard to the use of shunning as punishment for failure to shun someone else. But there are ways around that. I don't think the government would ever take action to stop or sanction an organization for advocating that you shun people who don't live up to your moral standards, and that's a loophole that's big enough to probably make any government sanctions pointless and ineffective. Anyone with the power to enact some sort of sanction against the WTS would likely see this and decide not to devote any further energy to it.
OneEyedJoe
JoinedPosts by OneEyedJoe
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23
WT is a human rights violator according to the definition of state.gov and USA law - time for us to start putting pressure in lawmakers!
by EndofMysteries inreligious freedom taken from http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/religiousfreedom/index.htm#wrapper.
quotingdirectly from the article...."it is the responsibility of governments to safeguard universal human rights and fundamental freedoms, including the right to life and the freedom of conscience, belief, practice, worship, and to explain and change ones faith.........people cannot enjoy religious freedom unless they have both the right to express their beliefs freely and change their religion without facing persecution, violence, or discrimination.... (ask yourself if the wt article i'm quoting next is allowing the freedom to change religion without discrimination and persecution.
so with that being said.....is the wt protecting religious freedom?
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Magazine Demo
by OzGirl intwo sisters did a magazine demo recently.
one used her tablet to show a scripture to the other one.
the second one said: "that looks easier than trying to find it in a book.".
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OneEyedJoe
It's all about appearances. They didn't want people using paper printouts at meetings because they used to love to go on and on about how people in other churches didn't open their bibles. Now they're trying to appeal to a younger generation so it's all about technology.
Another advantage that I'm sure they just love is the way they've now designed the literature to be read from tablets. They've got the scriptures right in there at the end of the chapter, conveniently removed from the context. Now there's much less chance of a JW getting bored at a meeting and reading the context of cited scriptures and realizing that they're misrepresenting the meaning.
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Halloween / Birthday celebration
by River Song innew to the board, first time posting a topic.
i just wanted to say how refreshing and sometimes funny it has been lurking here.
so much so that i decided to sign up to this message board.
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OneEyedJoe
Welcome! I always enjoy a good doctor who reference.
When you go trick or treating with your kids, do you ever have flash flashbacks? I guess the whole experience is pretty positive so hopefully not.
Have a great day you pagan, you.
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Disfellowshipped at a funeral
by Yogapants inrecently at a funeral for an active jw, death was sudden and tragic.
was surprised that that one of the disfellowshipped children of the deceased was comforted by the jw's at the funeral.
i would say the majority hugged and said a few short words to the disfellowshipped child on the recieving line to comfort the family.
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OneEyedJoe
I think usually funerals are seen as an opportunity to love bomb someone back into the cult. They might use different phrasing, of course, but I think many make an exception on the shunning in order to try to manipulate people to return. I've seen it a number of times.
Of course, if the love bombing doesn't yield immediate results, they're cut off again just as quickly.
It's absolutely disgusting the way this cult uses death/funerals almost solely as a means of recruitment, it's rarely about the deceased at all.
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New Watchtower Propaganda and hate speech destroying families (Feb 2016 WT)
by Daniel1555 inthe following is a paragraph from the new february study watchtower article "learn from jehovah's loyal servants.".
7 a conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped.
for example, a sister named anne [1] received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother.
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OneEyedJoe
I just realized (a little slow today) that Ann / Andre
are very similar names.
Might we expect to see more of her...?
I can hear the conversation in the writer's room now:
JW1: Hey, did you look over that WT article I wrote? Do you have any suggestions?
JW2: Yeah, you know where you talk about "Andre" *snickers* who wrote the letter to his shunned father? I think it might be a better idea to make them both women. You know those women seem to have a much harder time dealing with this, being the weaker, more emotional, vessel.
JW1: Great idea! But I've already got the layout all lined up....hmmm...I know! I'll just change "dr" to "n" in the name!
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Curiosity killed the cat.
by James Mixon indon't you think with all the talk about apostate sites, this is having a reverse.
effect for the rf.
if i was a jw today i would wonder what are all the lies these people are saying.. and i would try defending their truth on these sites, but in each case those that come here.
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OneEyedJoe
In a way, the negativity towards apostates helped me to wake up. For a time the indoctrination had me questioning my own motives for doubting, but as things remained unresolved I eventually started to wonder if it were possible that not all apostates were simply looking for their own followers or just couldn't live up to god's standards and left, bitter. When I realized that I had never once actually heard of an example of someone leaving and trying to "draw off followers after themselves" I realized that they might not all fit so neatly into little boxes. Since there's no way to explore doubts in the cult without retribution (unless you're willing to accept the all too common excuses that don't stand up to even passing scrutiny, which I no longer was) I set out in search of information online. Since everything online is apostate (well, I wasn't about to jump through the ridiculous hoops to register on jwtalk) here I am.
Obviously there's always a lot more in play than just one factor, but I think the constant reinforcement that there are people who have left and disagree with the WT will make some wonder if maybe they'd fit in better with that group. The apostaphobia might be effective on those who are fully in and have no doubts or problems with the cult, but I think it can serve to push out those who are only hanging on by a thread.
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Taking bets on how long this cult will last and what will happen to it
by macys ini wanna make a poll here.
how many years do you think the jdub cult will exist as is and what will happen to it?.
i say the growth stops this year and starts to decline.
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OneEyedJoe
The Borg has survived two world wars, and the great depression,
The cult has proven that it can flourish in difficult times (as do most religions) but as the world becomes more prosperous, I think they're going to have more trouble.
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Recent study links processed meats to cancer
by duc007az inso a recent study says processed meats are just as dangerous as cigarettes when it comes to cancer.
the wtbs has had a long time stance that smoking is a df offense.
my question is if there's proof beyond doubt, why doesn't the wtbs make eating processed meats a df offense?.
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OneEyedJoe
No link so I don't know what to make of this exactly. When evaluating risk, though, you have to be careful. I think there was a study a while ago that stated that if a man eats a bacon sandwich every day for lunch it increases the risk of prostate cancer by 20%, which sounds pretty big. But since only ~5% of men have prostate cancer, the risk only goes from 5% to 6%. Not a significant change. Especially if you're in your 40s or older - the question you should be asking is not "what are the odds this will kill me" but instead "how many years does this effectively cut off my life." If smoking will take 20 years to kill you and you're 60, then the answer is that it's probably not going to have a significant impact on lifespan. Same goes for eating bacon.
It's somewhat funny that most people live their lives in reverse when it comes to evaluating risk - they take risks in their youth, when they have more life to lose, and become more risk-adverse in old age when it doesn't matter as much. We should all drive slow and eat healthy until our 40s, then start drinking, smoking and eating everything in sight.
Anyways, that was a bit of a tangent. As far as I'm concerned, if bacon is as bad for me as smoking then I guess I might as well start smoking because I'm never giving up bacon. Yep, that logic checks out.
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Taking bets on how long this cult will last and what will happen to it
by macys ini wanna make a poll here.
how many years do you think the jdub cult will exist as is and what will happen to it?.
i say the growth stops this year and starts to decline.
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OneEyedJoe
I guess it depends on how you measure it. If you're measuring it the way the GB probably is - in dollars and cents - they've probably already peaked. Areas in Europe (UK and Germany) are already showing decline, as is Japan and I suspect Australia has seen their peak. Areas where people have money are not growing. The US has probably peaked too, but they're putting extra effort (the US is now the US branch territory and includes other areas that have some growth yet) into fudging the numbers and picking up immigrants to hide the decline since the US is their crown jewel. They may grow in the 3rd world for some time, but they won't have the economic support that they once had.
I expect them to stop reporting the full stats in the next few years to a decade as they run out of ways to hide the decline without waking up more bethelites with overly dishonest tactics. Honestly, though, I suspect that most of the attrition of the next 10-20 years will be the older generation dying off. The average member's age is way too high for a healthy business, and they'll be forced to reorganize into a leaner cult. The thing that I think will be most interesting to see is if, as the older ones die off, we see an exodus of the next generation as they discover their reason for staying in (often the approval of their parents, it seems) evaporates.
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Your thoughts on Halloween , yes, no or maybe ?
by Finkelstein inwell its that time again when the ghouls come out to play.
i personally think halloween is a bit irresponsible and inappropriate from a sociological perspective.. there's something about the intent of frightening young impressionable children minds with frightening objests.
and feeding them candy which most likely cause tooth decay and stomachs is irresponsible activity conducted by adults.
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OneEyedJoe
I'm ok with the dress-up stuff and the candy, but I really hate people knocking on my door uninvited.