My father (and mother) both came into the cult that way, though a little later - my parents were in their late teens when they were baptized (and married shortly thereafter) in the run-up to 1975. Both were dragged into the cult by their mothers, with both their fathers being opposed (one left, the other eventually joined the cult too after about 30 years of being gradually worn down). Now they're both as 'in' as can be. My father is sacrificing his health because of all the stress and obligation he has because of his duties in the cult.
OneEyedJoe
JoinedPosts by OneEyedJoe
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Mummy's (Mommy's) Boys - Old school Elders are mummy's boys.
by freddo inin the congregations i have been in there are many long time dyed in the wool elders who were the sons of women of a certain age.
let me explain - must you?
yes.. mom "finds the truth" (often because a loved one died in the war, or died when she was young and she bought into the nice ladies calling to offer the resurrection hope) sometime between ww2 and vietnam.
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Correlation decline JW numbers and JW broadcasting?
by Gorbatchov ini read some impressive figures here about the decline of the jw numbers in 2015.. could there be a correlation between this decline and the start of jw broadcasting?.
hence, that there would be an negative impact because the gb is standing so nearby, you can experience the idiot reasoning of their doctrines sitting in your own living room?.
the lett effect?
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OneEyedJoe
The problem with jw.org is that all the craziness, underperformance and lack of education comes to light, and the presentation doesn't fit with the rank-and-file view of the organization. The "sphere" were the average JW is psychically in, doesn't match with wat they see on Broadcasting
I think a lot of JWs see the problems locally and have convinced themselves that this is not because of the organization but because of "imperfect men" or because people aren't applying the watchtower's rules in the way they're meant or something like that. When they're faced with the reality - that the problems at a local level would probably be worse if they ran things in the true spirit of how the GB means them - it's certainly going to be a test of their faith.
They want to think that they don't understand the explanation of the overlapping generation, that it must make sense but they just aren't clever enough to work it out. Then they see splane's little chart and it makes it clear as day that it just doesn't make sense.
They want to believe that begging for money or passing out slips for people to fill in how much they can afford to give is a local problem or perhaps just their congregation is low on funds until they see Lett spend an hour begging for money.
They want to believe that child abuse issues are few and far between. That they're due to a few bad elders that didn't understand the rules, and then Morris gets up there and talks about how proud they are about their record on child abuse and goes on to blame the problem on homosexuals, completely missing the true issue.
They want to believe that inane rules about dress, grooming, pilgrimage to bethel, etc are just being pushed by local hard-core elders that have had a little too much power given to them to express their own views, then Morris gets up there and does his tight pants rant, and tells people that they should go to bethel before they go to another theme park.
I've seen it a number of times - you point to something messed up in some literature and they'll explain it away as being more moderate than it really is. I think a lot will have trouble as the illusions they've made to feel ok with their cult are destroyed by the role that the GB is now taking.
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Another child abuse cover up by JW"s
by LevelThePlayingField insource: http://www.centralkynews.com/theinteriorjournal/news/local/stanford/trial-date-set-in-jehovah-s-witness-rape-case/article_1bf73cae-8e00-11e5-8272-cf2fbe492a1a.html.
stanford the trial of a jehovahs witness accused of raping a 15-year-old girl nearly two decades ago is expected to begin in april.. donovan moore, 53, of 2059 st. michael drive in lexington, was indicted in september on four counts of third-degree rape and four counts of third-degree sodomy for allegedly engaging in sexual intercourse with a juvenile in 1997 and 1998. moore was 35 at the time of the alleged crimes.. lincoln circuit judge jeffrey burdette has scheduled a two-day trial for moore to begin april 27.. .
moore has been lodged at the lincoln county regional jail since his arrest sept. 30 on a $75,000 full-cash bond.. .
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OneEyedJoe
To be fair, it sounds like this went exactly according to the bible - he raped a virgin so he married her. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she was pressured into marrying him by the elders due to the rape.
Absolutely disgusting. I hate that I was ever connected to this cult more because of this sort of thing than because of what it's done to my life.
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How to defeat JWs in 10 easy steps
by slimboyfat inhave you heard of ryan cragun's book how to defeat religion in 10 easy steps?
http://www.amazon.com/how-defeat-religion-easy-steps/dp/1634310128/ref=cm_cr_pr_bdcrb_top?ie=utf8.
cragun is a sociologist and an ex-mormon who thought it would be fun to take what he'd learnt about religious decline from sociology and see if he could apply it as a number of proactive steps to undermine religion.
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OneEyedJoe
I did 100% - I am sure I'm not unique
Same here - well doctrinal issues coupled with undeniable evidence that I'd been lied to. Had nothing to do with life goals at all, I just don't like to spend any more time being wrong than necessary.
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Evolution and Creation—both are stories!
by lsw1961 inthere are number of nobel laureates and other great scientists in both the camps defending their respective theories of evolution and creation, which means both are just stories, and both suffer from having no eye-witnesses.
if either of them were true, all scientists would have accepted it unanimously as they do with rest of the laws such as law of gravity..
this does not mean that there is no god.
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OneEyedJoe
There are number of Nobel Laureates and other great scientists in both the camps defending their respective theories of Evolution and Creation, which means both are just stories, and both suffer from having no eye-witnesses. If either of them were true, all scientists would have accepted it unanimously as they do with rest of the Laws such as Law of Gravity
This is the logical fallacy of inflation of conflict. There is some disagreement in the field of evolutionary biology on certain details, but no disagreement on the fact of evolution. Furthermore you make the mistake of assuming that because someone is a "scientist" they automatically can make an educated decision on the subject of creation vs evolution, but this is simply not the case. A physicist does not necessarily have any more understanding of evolution than a baptist preacher. Interestingly enough there is a paper that was (mis)quoted by a recent awake article that goes into detail on this fact and explains why even educated people fail to understand the fact of evolution - the summary is that it's not intuitive and most people have a tenuous grasp (at best) on the timescales involved. It's an interesting read: http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/g11-046
This does not mean that there is no God. There are two channels for the acquisition of knowledge—1) five senses, 2) intuitive knowledge—something that Einstein admitted that he used in the formulation of his theory of relativity. Now let us use our intuitive mind, along with on our experience:
1) I came through my parents (not from them, because they did not create their sperms and eggs, and also they did nothing in the formation of me within the womb of my mother which happened with no conscious effort from my parents).
2) My parents came through their parents (not from them)…..
I'm not sure just what the point is that you're trying to make here. The argument of "Zebras only come from zebras, lions only come from lions and humans only come from humans" has been thoroughly debunked if you'd care to do a little investigation on the topic of evolution. Evolution of developed species that you're likely to come across in day-to-day life is so incredibly slow that even if your lifespan were 100 times the average for a human it would be barely perceptible at best in most cases. Lions give birth to two slightly different lions and when the populations get separated, they begin to diverge genetically until you have two populations of animals that no longer closely resemble one another and are sufficiently diverged to be considered different species. There's no point in there, though, that you can look at and say "Aha! That's a new species!" Each generation looks sufficiently similar to the previous generation that they appear to be the same species, but over long time spans the similarities diminish.
After that, you seem to go on a completely unrelated tangent. I don't think that many people claim that the fact of evolution is proof that god does not exist simply because humans are the "best" species. Anyone who does make that claim is really lacking in their understanding of logical deduction. In fact, I think that few people truly make the claim that evolution disproves the existence of god. It simply proves that god is not necessary. At least not for the creation of an abundant variety of species that exist today. Other fields of study (cosmology, abiogenesis, astrophysics, etc) further prove that god is not a necessary component for any of our natural world to exist or function, but that's a different discussion altogether.
Your assessment of the function of religion is somewhat noble and certainly compassion is a worthy thing for us to seek. If you agree that JWs have fallen to the point that they are no better than the money changers in the temple that Jesus chased away, what is your assessment of Revelation 18:4? Does it not apply to you, or are you comfortable sharing in their sins and receiving part of their coming plagues?
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Is Religion Dying Out? - AWAKE! NOVEMBER 2015
by GrownMidget in"have you given up on organized religion?
in many countries the number of people who describe themselves as not religious is growinga trend that suggests an uncertain future for institutional religion.
some of those lands are shown here.
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OneEyedJoe
Clambake - it always bothered me that I was going to people's homes to shove it in their face that I think their religion is wrong. I guess I was never really cut out to be a JW. It seems that the writers of this article realized this problem themselves:
Babylon the Great too “sits on many waters.” These, the Bible tells us, mean “peoples and crowds”—the millions who support false religion.
They say there are "millions" supporting false religion, probably in an attempt to delay the reader's realization that the article is talking about them (I'm assuming they're not atheists, because if they are I suspect they've stopped reading well before this point). Meanwhile a JW will read that and substitute the more accurate "billions" which actually reflects the JW belief that everyone that supports a religion other than JW is in that group.
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Question time
by Sabin inwith all the evidence stacked against them on child abuse issues, why do you think they are still refusing to play ball with the authorities?
why not put their hands up & say "we got a problem, we need help to change our medieval policies, we need advise on how to conduct our affairs in away that is in the victims best interests".. do you think that it is blatant, selfish pride.
the risk of losing money & struggling as a consequence, or they truly believe that jehovah is protecting them & by admitting they have acted in this inconceivable way would bring reproach on his name?.
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OneEyedJoe
They think god is backing them and they can't lose. Who would "play ball" under those circumstances? I think there really waiting for their god to bail them out and if they give up it would betray a lack of faith. -
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2015 Worldwide Memorial Attendance: Another Sign of Decline
by steve2 injw memorial attendance last year - 2014 - was about 50,000 shy of 20 million.
some posters on this forum had confidently predicted before the 2014 memorial that attendance would hit more than 20 milion.
they were wrong.. now, in 2015, and the memorial falling on a weekend night (where attendance is historically much higher), attendance has not only failed to top 20 milion but has declined by more than 87,000 in attendance over 2014:.
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OneEyedJoe
I would think it is the other way around, as the one showing up at the Memorial and rarely at other times, the so-called "cousins" or "submarines" are away on holidays or at least weekend trips during Easter and therefore do not attend the Memorial, but they do when it falls on a mid-week night.
I don't think most people who are going just to show their face (or those that still believe but can't force themselves to go to regular meetings) would skip because it's on the weekend...I think most are more likely to skip if it's during the week and they're tired from work and have to get up early the next day.
Additionally, with their big campaigns to put out invitations, they probably get a few people interested and the closer the memorial is to good friday/easter, the more it seems like just another church to go to for a special mass and they're more likely to have walk-ins on those days. Whereas most normal people probably aren't going to bother going to some new church in the middle of the week when they are tired and have to get up early the next day.
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Hypocrisy of JW Thinking After Tragedy Like Paris
by freemindfade init never has ceased to boggle my mind how twisted up jw thinking is.
when they see something like what happened in paris, in person they will express how sad and detestable it is quickly followed by "this is why we need the kingdom, and the desert god is gonna fix everything.
" here is where i get perplexed.
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OneEyedJoe
Yes, apparently the only conceivable solution to the threat of genocidal maniacs is for the biggest genocidal maniac of them all to kill all the potential targets of genocide. -
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What is the org’s view on extraterrestrial life?
by My Name is of No Consequence ini am sure that it has been discussed before.
but just out of curiosity, what is the orgs view on extraterrestrial life?
the org certainly agrees that the universe is infinitely large.
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OneEyedJoe
They wouldn't concede that life could evolve anywhere, so saying that there might be life elsewhere would require that they admit that Jehovah created life on other planets. Since the bible says he does nothing without letting his prophets know, they're not likely to admit that possibility.
They're also incredibly adept at ignoring evidence of terrestrial life, instead insisting that we just appeared here 6000 years ago. I suspect that if ET life is ever discovered, they'll simply refuse to acknowledge it and will, at best, publish articles full of logical flaws that don't address the actual evidence but instead suggest that any evidence found was the result of misconduct or insufficient rigor on the part of the scientists.